Fire department takes down nativity display

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CHARLESTON, S.C. --- The Charleston fire department has removed a nativity display from a station after getting a complaint that it was an unconstitutional endorsement of one religion.

The manger scene was removed from Fire Station 12 after city officials received a letter from the group Freedom from Religion Foundation, which works for the separation of church and state.

Putting the creche on city property "unmistakably sends the message that the city of Charleston endorses the religious beliefs embodied in the display," staff attorney Rebecca Kratz wrote in the letter, dated Dec. 17, to Mayor Joe Riley and Fire Chief Thomas Carr.

According to the letter, someone complained to the Madison, Wis.-based group.

The nativity scene was removed Thursday in response, The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Monday.

The city's legal department advised officials to remove the display, citing U.S. Supreme Court rulings on promoting one religion over another, said fire department spokesman Mark Ruppel.

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APiratesLife4Me
0
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APiratesLife4Me 12/22/09 - 01:36 am
0
0
Incredible.............Sad to

Incredible.............Sad to boot !

jebko
0
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jebko 12/22/09 - 04:16 am
0
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'Jesus wept'

'Jesus wept'

Just My Opinion
6087
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Just My Opinion 12/22/09 - 04:44 am
0
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I don't get it. "These

I don't get it. "These people" who are in these groups who demand the rest of us show tolerance and acceptance for all groups, they are the ones who want to clamp down on whoever it is that displays a Christian preference. Ask yourself this, would "these people" also have sent a formal letter of complaint had the fire dept. displayed a menorrah or some Muslim display?? I doubt it. Hypocrites.

wildman
1195
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wildman 12/22/09 - 06:04 am
0
0
The Inmates are running the

The Inmates are running the place! Some can wear head gear because it's part of a religion and I'm ok with it as long as I can display my beliefs. I understand the idiot that complained is not one they may wear a towel anytime soon but you get my point. Put the scene back up and tell them to worry about Madison, Wisconsin.

nofrills
0
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nofrills 12/22/09 - 06:22 am
0
0
Lets see its ok to praise all

Lets see its ok to praise all other holiday's but Christian based holiday's. That seems fair to me if your a muslim or a jew. Wait I am a jew and I enjoy your christmas and I'm not insulted. Nobody asked me! When do we as americans get our manhood back and tell the world if you dont like it dont look. its not a x-rated display. it's jesus for crying out loud.

NANF
4
Points
NANF 12/22/09 - 06:24 am
0
0
I feel sorry for the firemen

I feel sorry for the firemen that took the nativity scene down. They should be very frightened to go in to a raging fire the next time. Just WHO are they going to call to for help??? They have denied God.

ColCo
912
Points
ColCo 12/22/09 - 06:35 am
0
0
"Someone complained to the

"Someone complained to the Madison, Wisconsin based group..." Let them sue.

Just me 2
0
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Just me 2 12/22/09 - 06:35 am
0
0
This is pure stupidity! Who

This is pure stupidity! Who the f put those people in charge anyway?
I believe there are more people who wish that it be displayed than not. WHY are we bowing down and going AGAINST our own beliefs to
satisfy someone else. If they do not believe then they do not have to look. Where is the "Free Speech" in this scenario?

1941
4
Points
1941 12/22/09 - 06:41 am
0
0
What religion do not belive

What religion do not belive in jesus?

UncleBill
6
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UncleBill 12/22/09 - 07:27 am
0
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You may put a nativity scene

You may put a nativity scene in your yard, on the property of your church, or on any private property where you can get permission. You may not put it on GOVERNMENT property where it presents the impression of endorsing a particular regligious belief. Simple.

Brad Owens
4859
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Brad Owens 12/22/09 - 07:36 am
0
0
Kratz? I wonder which

Kratz? I wonder which religion she is a member of?

lovingmom
0
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lovingmom 12/22/09 - 07:38 am
0
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And people wonder why our

And people wonder why our world is in the shape it is in. You put a man in office that mocks Jesus. You bow down to others that mock Jesus. Without Jesus Christ, you have nothing.

Edward1968
624
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Edward1968 12/22/09 - 08:04 am
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Lovingmom is EXACTLY right.

Lovingmom is EXACTLY right.

Edward1968
624
Points
Edward1968 12/22/09 - 08:09 am
0
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NANF, the firemen are not

NANF, the firemen are not denying Jesus, they are following the law. I agree, it is a BAD law where we cannot worship and express our own religious beliefs. Our world is in ever-increasing decline due to our lawmakers and many who have been put in office from the top down.

justus4
111
Points
justus4 12/22/09 - 08:12 am
0
0
This is NOT a story. The fire
Unpublished

This is NOT a story. The fire department was in violation of the U.S. Constitution, so getting in compliance was the correct actions to take. Anyone who don't understand the violation requires a remedial class in the "establishment clause" which restricts the department's actions to erect symbols representing a specific religion. Why would any constitution-loving, flag-waving, country-loving, individual disagree with the consistent application of constitutional principles? Well, it simple: They only like the constitution when it suits them - not when it protects others. Another example is the Confederate flag which is placed in many courtrooms. That flag represent extreme violence and barbaric atrocities against people of color but flies in establishments reserved for justice-seeking citizens. How does a person of color feel having to go into such a place seeking justice? The feeling is one of horror and find justice there is only a pipe dream. So the flag should be removed just like the nativity display, because they both violate the spirit of equal freedoms for all.

themaninthemirror
0
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themaninthemirror 12/22/09 - 08:14 am
0
0
If American's move to China,

If American's move to China, would the Chinese government allow us to protest their pracitce of Bhudism? Can we fo to Russia and worship our Lord openly, without fear of imprisonment? But we allow other faiths to come here and dictrate what we can and cannot do because it might "insult" them. Frankly, I do not care if they are insulted. Our nation was founded on religious principles, and while one has the freedom to worship the faith of their choice, they should have the freedom to impose their religion on the majority of God fearing Americans who believe in Jesus and his birth. Merry Christmas!

AWyld1
3
Points
AWyld1 12/22/09 - 09:19 am
0
0
The klan also waves the

The klan also waves the american flag and the christian flag but you only hear complaints about the confederate flag....wonder why?

CoastalDawg
125
Points
CoastalDawg 12/22/09 - 09:25 am
0
0
"This is NOT a story. The

"This is NOT a story. The fire department was in violation of the U.S. Constitution, so getting in compliance was the correct actions to take. Anyone who don't understand the violation requires a remedial class in the "establishment clause" which restricts the department's actions to erect symbols representing a specific religion." This is absolutely the most ignorant and uneducated statement that I've seen here since Justus' last posting. NOWHERE in the US Constitution is there any clause that would keep ANY person or group from displaying the nativity scene - in fact the exact opposite exists. The CONGRESS shall not establish...this has nothing to do with congress. It has to do with people in government who run scared from some silly letter from a person in Wisconsin. Let them sue - by then Christmas is over and the nativity scene is put away until next year. Whatever individual decided that the scene should come down should now have his/her JOB come down. NOTHING in our constitution calls for the removal of the display. Even though modern attempts are being made to discredit them; IN GOD WE TRUST is our national motto yet we let nobodies tell us differently.

inthearea
15
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inthearea 12/22/09 - 09:29 am
0
0
This is pathetic. This

This is pathetic. This country was founded on religion. We the people need to stand up for Freedom of Speech. This is what our Troops are fighting for and we are letting our on country take it away. Wake up people. What's going on here?

InChristLove
22481
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InChristLove 12/22/09 - 09:47 am
0
0
You may put a nativity scene

You may put a nativity scene in your yard, on the property of your church, or on any private property where you can get permission. You may not put it on GOVERNMENT property where it presents the impression of endorsing a particular regligious belief. Simple. Posted by UncleBill on Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:27 AM
Does this mean that all the families on base housing at Ft. Gordon or any other military establishment has to take down their "religious" Christmas decorations?

making it day by day
0
Points
making it day by day 12/22/09 - 09:58 am
0
0
You are correct. It is my

You are correct. It is my understanding that this is the law. I have decided, and I urge you, in the next state and federal election if you see the word [incumbent] next to a name, don't vote for him or her. It took everyone up there, over a period of years, to get us in the mess we are in today. The statement was made "but what about all the experience they have?" My response is "look where all that experience has gotten us." With our politicians it used to be "country first," "party second" and "self last." It is now "self first," "party second" and "country last." If the president can only serve two terms I think that should apply to the ones that make our laws. It's really ironic, these same people determine what their own salary will be, how long they will serve, etc.. When everyone else is having to take cuts in salary, work time, etc., they are not. Religion is being removed from everying but when something goes wrong they are the first ones on the front steps in Washington to have their picture made praying as a group!! Something is really wrong with this picture and I truly believe we will all be held accountable for letting this happen to our country.

waugusta92
0
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waugusta92 12/22/09 - 10:00 am
0
0
LOL get a clue. these are the

LOL
get a clue. these are the laws and the epitome of tax payer dollars at work ( a fire station) doesn't need to be displaying or "endorsing" one religion over the other. glad it was removed. now if some more of these 'necks down here would get a clue.

justus4
111
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justus4 12/22/09 - 10:09 am
0
0
The fire station is a
Unpublished

The fire station is a government entity. Its personnel are considered government. The facilities and property are government. Anything located on the property MUST reflect the U.S. government's values, regardless of where that fire station is physically located. In Backwoods, USA, where no one has a problem with such displays, it's OK. It only takes ONE individual citizen to be offended, which triggers the Constitutional guarantee of NO single religious preference. Period! A display symbolizing a Christian schene is considered a religious preference. It is unConstitutional! It can't be associated with government facilities or personnel. PUT IT IN YOUR FRONT YARD. Not on my government property, which is well-established (for well-educated & intelligent citizens) in the Constitution.

themaninthemirror
0
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themaninthemirror 12/22/09 - 10:22 am
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Justus- I guess it is easy to

Justus- I guess it is easy to defend the government when you depend on them for your welfare and support. I wonder if your ability to explain the constitution in such an eloquent and educated manner will help you when you find yourself at the pearly gates.

Brad Owens
4859
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Brad Owens 12/22/09 - 11:02 am
0
0
Why don't they fight so hard

Why don't they fight so hard to protect us with the entire Bill of Rights? I mean would they fight this hard to protect a gun show?

CalvinCool
0
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CalvinCool 12/22/09 - 11:02 am
0
0
The Nativity scene was on a

The Nativity scene was on a adjoining piece of private property, not on municpal property. For more on this story visit the website for Charleston's premier 'talker' WTMA.
Additionally, you can call the Wisconsin weenies at 608-256-8900 and wish them a "Merry Christmas". They are quite 'short' on the telephone. If you are lucky them may curse at you.

LCC0256
634
Points
LCC0256 12/22/09 - 11:06 am
0
0
This is and WAS founded as a

This is and WAS founded as a Christian nation with Judeo-Christian beliefs & fundamental principles. There are ignorant & sometimes just plain evil inhabitants (i hesitate to call them human beings) of this country who believing they understand something called "separation of church and state" to mean THE OPPOSITE of what it in fact means. What it means is the STATE SHALL NOT INFRINGE upon Americans rights to express our beliefs (Christian & Jew alike) These people who pervert & bastardize our founding documents are as pathetic in their ignorance as they are dangerous to the Constitution & the principles that have allowed this country to be the GREATEST republic in the earth's history. The time is drawing nigh where people who believe as i do are going to have to confront people who believe as justus does. (most likely to the death and annihilation of one of the sides) My only question is are there going to be enough with the will to fight for what they believe in for those who feel the way i do. Or will it be like the bolshevik takeover in Russia near the turn of the last century which plunged MILLIONS OF PEOPLE to their deaths & led to a near century long communist dictatorship

corgimom
36810
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corgimom 12/22/09 - 11:55 am
0
0
The Founding Fathers were

The Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christians, and there's a big difference. And our country's laws were based on the Magna Carta. There IS no "Judeo-Christian philosophy" that our country was founded on. It didn't exist in 1776. It wasn't even talked about until 100 years ago or so. The present meaning was first used in 1939. That's a modern invention.

USA4Life
0
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USA4Life 12/22/09 - 01:25 pm
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Justus4. While I admite the

Justus4. While I admite the opinions of all can honestly say that you should take a remedial American History course. The "Establishment Clause" no where prohibits displays of religious symbols on public property. Sadly, this has been read into the Constitution over the last 70 years or so. At the time of the writing of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights I guess Congress did not have time to take up the matter in full detail since both Chambers of Congress were occupied several times a week as meeting houses for local church congregations! Go back and check your facts before spilling your venom on others!

USA4Life
0
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USA4Life 12/22/09 - 01:27 pm
0
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Corgimom should also reread

Corgimom should also reread some of the writings of our founding fathers to see if they were really deist. Most were more faithful and devoted Christians than you and I ever could be. Even the supposed Atheist Ben Franklin has many very Theistic writings and beliefs that you can research and read.

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