Related story: Year-round school has proponents in Georgia
As a parent and teacher in the Richmond County school system, Stacey Abney sees both sides of the year-round school calendar debate.
"I have a split opinion," she said.
On the one hand, she said, a nine-weeks-on, three-weeks-off schedule that offers a 4 1/2-week summer break would offer less idle time for students to forget what they've learned.
"We lose a lot of time reviewing at the beginning of the year," she said of Richmond County's calendar, which gives pupils a 10-week summer vacation.
But Ms. Abney, a second-grade teacher at Monte Sano Elementary School, also said a longer summer helped her work toward achieving her master's degree.
"As a teacher who's been teaching a long time, I like my longer summer," she said, later adding, "Teachers either take jobs or go to school or take big trips (in the summer)."
Still, Ms. Abney said she could adjust to a year-round schedule, which affords teachers much-needed breaks through the year.
Perhaps the biggest hurdle, she said, would be explaining the shorter summer to her daughter and son, who attend C.T. Walker Traditional Magnet school.
"My kids would be really mad at me," she said with a laugh. "They love their summers."
The year-round school idea has recently been in the spotlight as President Obama and others have spoken out in support of a nontraditional school day and calendar.
In Richmond County, officials recently approved the next two school years' calendars on a traditional model, with school starting Monday, Aug. 9, and ending Friday, May 20, for 2010-11 and starting Monday, Aug. 8, and ending Friday, May 18, for 2011-12.
Superintendent Dana Bedden has said he likes the year-round idea and wouldn't rule out a proposal, depending on circumstances, after the next couple of years.
Some Richmond County parents say they also like the idea.
"I'm actually in favor of it," said Jamie Dukes, who has two children at Glenn Hills Elementary and is the PTO president.
He said he believes it could help students better retain what they learn in the key areas of math and English.
When told of the year-round idea, Monte Sano Elementary parent Andrea Cherry's first reaction was: "That's kind of weird."
She then said such a calendar would be OK if it helps students learn, but, "The only thing is, you'd have to make sure child care is available in that (three-week off) time."
As for child care costs, Mr. Dukes said he doesn't believe periodic three-week breaks would be any more expensive for parents than paying for services in an extended summer.
"I'm a parent, and I know summer camp is expensive, and I know when they were in day care it was expensive in the summer," he said.
The Professional Association of Georgia Educators takes no official stance on the matter, said Tim Callahan, a spokesman for the 75,000-member organization. But he said he has heard both sides of the argument, adding that there are probably more positives than negatives to a year-round calendar.
He said the main thing to keep in mind if considering a year-round schedule is to first get the community to buy in and plan the idea out far in advance.
"They've got to educate the community about why this might be a good thing, and they've got to bring the parents along," he said.
"If they're looking two years down the road, that's probably a good idea."
Monte Sano kindergarten teacher Carolyn Bonner, who has taught at the Augusta school for more than 30 years, said she knows there would be those who would say: "But we've always done it this way."
But she said she fully supports the year-round model.
"I love it," she said. "It would help keep kids from forgetting what they learn."
Ms. Abney said it all comes down to being willing to make a change for the better.
"It ultimately would be good," she said, "but change is hard."
The Augusta Chronicle ©2010 Morris Communications, LLC. All Rights Reserved.
I do not believe this crap about having to review what the kids
have learned theprior school year, unless of course they did not learn it to begin with and that is another story. I have always been under the impression that when you learn something you
retain what you actually learn. I do not think the taxpayers of
Richmond county ccan afford to keep the school system open all year round. I do not believe the school board can raise enough monies to keep them open. I' m for going to a four day week
and this would save a lot of money, such as utilities, fuel for the school buses and many other expenses that would be reduced by closing an extra day.
is prezbo going too give them more money.
Students do lose some of what they have learned the year before. For some, it may only be a small amount of information. For others, who do not pick up a book or who are not encouraged during the summer to keep those skills sharp, it can cause problems. For students who are already struggling, it can put them more than a summer behind. Teachers probably review at least two weeks when school begins for most children. It takes them time to get used to the expectations of getting up early and working on academics during the day.
I am with the four day week...
It makes no sense to not use available resources to provide a quality education. A plan should be established to divide a school year into four quarters or semesters with the curriculum developed to allow each student to progress at the speed and level he/she is capable of. Establish it like many schools of higher learning do --- sign up for the classes desired with basic classes being required and a time-schedule for graduation. Require a minimum of three quarters of school each year with the student and his/her parents making their own schedule. Provide academic counselors/advisers to assist with scheduling. Allow teachers to schedule which quarters they want to teach & compensate them accordingly - then let extra- curriculum activities to function around this logical scheduling - leverage available resources to more efficiently and effectively educate while giving flexibility to the educators and to the students -- the end result would be a better educated student at less cost.
I have taught in a year round system, and time off was(intersession) used as a ime for remediation for marginal students. Teachers could work during interssion for one half day primarily in the areas of math and reading. I loved it!!! It allowed you time to plan and do things during different times of the year. By the way, teachers that were off track would be paid extra on an hourly basis for teaching duting intersession.
This would replace the need for an After School Academy. Consider this option, and by the way students that have poor retention academically do have to be retaught during the first few weeks of school, and others need the review.
Sounds like a good plan, Calisandpiper.
Wiz, you obviously have never taught elementary school. All parents think their children are smart, talented, and wonderful. It is a real blow to parents when they are told their child needs remedial help. What you are proposing is basically Montessori schools, and while they work well for some children, most parents opt out of it eventually. Allowing children "to progress at their own speed"- good idea in theory- but you're ok with 8 year old kindergarteners along with 5 year olds, right?
It is obvious that some people think most parents of students are not qualified to understand the mental capabilities of their own children. It is a shame that they show so little respect for parents. Volunteers with this attitude shouldn't be in the classroom with our children.
I disagree. I don't think corgimom was saying that volunteers HAVE this attitude about MOST parents. She was simply pointing out a fact that there are a small number of parents who tend to believe their children are more intelligent than their performance in the classroom shows. Proud parents have a tendency to do that. It's natural. When you have a child who needs extra help in an area and the parents think the child is "gifted", it can come as a shock. Reminds me of a quote: "All children are gifted. Some just open their packages sooner than others".
students would still attend school the same 180 days a year it would just be spread out over the entire year.
So what exactly are you disagreeing with, workingmom? She DID say ALL parents; I was actually toning it DOWN, quote: "All parents think their children are smart, talented, and wonderful. It is a real blow to parents when they are told their child needs remedial help...."
Posted by corgimom on Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:22 PM Apparently you share that attitude: "When you have a child who needs extra help in an area and the parents think the child is "gifted", it can come as a shock...."Posted by workingmom on Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:55 PM I can see why some students and parents want to keep the long summer break to get a break from SOME teachers and volunteers superiority complexes...LOL.
I'm not even going to respond to your rude comment because I refuse to stoop down to that level today. I do believe you have totally missed the point of my posts. What I have posted is not an attitude, but observations over several years of working with children and parents. Test scores, assessments and student work are data used to show progress or lack of it. That is what makes it so difficult when parents think one thing and then are shown data showing something different. I have not said that EVERY PARENT responds like this or that parents do not know much about their own children. Surely, you can comprehend that.
Whenever a parent is told that their child is not performing at grade level, it's a blow to them. If you want to think otherwise, Falling Leaves, that's ok. Most parents don't have a frame of reference to go by. They will tell you proudly "Oh, I know he's ready, he can do X, Y, and Z" and those are 3 and 4 year old skills. We hear stuff like "Oh, he can count to 10" and "He knows his colors" and "He can sing the alphabet song". Those aren't 5 year old skills. When we hear that, our hearts sink.
My comment was not rude and certainly was not as offensive as your comments beforehand and following mine. I have not missed the point of your posts, it is your attitude that is apparent AGAIN. Corgimom was the person that said "All parents". Certainly you can comprehend that when I have it in quotes exactly as corgimom wrote it. And corgimom, yes those are 5 year old skills, because that is what you are supposed to teach them at that age IF they have not yet acquired those skills. Most children I know have acquired them BEFORE age 5, but there is nothing wrong with teaching them those skills at age 5 and adding to those skills if they already have them. That is the teacher's JOB. Of course it's a blow to a parent if a child is said to be not performing at grade level, but don't EXPECT for a parent to have a professional frame of reference if the child is just starting kindergarten, although I suspect MOST parents DO have a general idea of where their children stand in their skills. If you don't have enough tact to inform your students' parents without causing a blow to their feelings, well you just have to deal with the consequences the best you can or learn some tact.
The main point of my post that you objected to workingmom, was that you said, "I disagree", yet there was nothing in your post to substantiate that we were actually in disagreement. There's a difference between being in disagreement and simply being disagreeable.
BTW, workingmom, it is obvious that despite your statement that you weren't going to "stoop to that level", you surpassed it downward.
Unbelievable.
OK, FallingLeaves, some parents think their child is stupid. I haven't met anyone like that ever, but maybe you have. And FallingLeaves, no, those are not 5 year old skills. 5 year olds, entering kindergarten, should be able to count to 20. Should know how to cut, paste, and glue. Should be able to follow 2 step instructions. Should be able to print their name, be able to identify 8 letters and 8 sounds. Should be able to print one other word other than their name. Should be able to touch a row of snap cubes, one by one, left to right, without skipping, and count them. Should know all 8 basic colors. Should be able to sit still for 10 minutes. Should know how to hold a pencil and write. Should be able to handle low to medium frustration and being told "no" and not falling apart or having tantrums. The ones that don't know all that struggle, and the class instruction doesn't slow down for them to catch up. By the end of kindergarten, they should be able to read a little, be able to read over 100 sight words, know all their letters, all their sounds, and be able to write their letters and use phonetic spelling. They should count to 30, write their numbers neatly and (continued)
be able to write them consecutively. They should be familiar with skip counting by 5's and 10's, to 100 and be able to do some, if not all, of that. They should be able to color a simple picture and stay in the lines. They should use a variety of colors and include detail such as the ground, the sky, trees, etc. They should be able to identify the characters and setting in a story, and be able to give a simple retell of the story. They should know the days of the week, months of the year, in order, and how many days are in each month. They should know their birthday, address, and phone number. They should be able to draw a picture to illustrate their writing and have it be relevant to the writing. Should be able to play simple games, including rolling a die, and take turns. They should be able to tell time to the 1/2 hour. I could go on, but maybe now you get the idea.
Give up, corgimom. This is like hitting your head against a brick wall. Thank you again for all that you do. I can see by your post you actually DO know what you're talking about. Hopefully some people will understand these last objectives are GOALS for the end of the kdg. year and will be TAUGHT during the school year. Not all children WILL master these objectives, unfortunately, but most will.
Seriously, may I ask you teachers on here what a 3.5 year old should be able to do? Not being sarcastic, my children were all pretty smart and I worked with them a lot. I take care of my two grandsons now, and I really just can't remember what my children knew at this age. Any help would be appreciated.
You need to READ, READ, READ to them. Stories. Rhymes. Sing songs. Give them a pencil and paper and let them start to scribble. When they are 4, start them on scissors. Playdoh is good to develop their hands. Do a See n Say with them. Sesame Street. Leapfrog is good also, for letters and sounds. They should know the parts of their body. They should be able to somewhat dress themselves. Building blocks (boys love those.) They should be able to jump up and down and keep their balance. Start them counting their fingers and things such as cookies and pretzels up to 5. At this age, they learn through playing more than formal learning sessions. The old toys that you played with are much better than the ones they have now- I'm not a fan of electronic toys. The simpler, the better.
Thanks for the info, I guess he is doing pretty well, he can count to 5 and knows basic colors and shapes, unfortunately he loves video games and is very good at them. I've suggested they at least buy him a learning one. I don't think he is learning much from Mario.
Unbelievable. workingmom, you are inferring I don't know what I'm talking about. Wrong. Corgimom, of course they SHOULD, but you and workingmom DO know that just doesn't happen or you wouldn't be whining about how parents fall short in your eyes all the time. Just keep blaming the parents. That attitude should go over real well with parents and students both (NOT). Don't think your students don't sense that. No, really, instead of wasting your energy on that, just do your job and teach them and stop judging the parents, its unprofessional to say the least. And yes, my children had those skills and more before they entered Pre-K, because I was blessed with the time and resources to be there to teach them myself. My youngest daughter is now at an Ivy League School on scholarships she earned on merit, was salutatorian at her high school (one of the top schools in the state and nation), and her siblings also earned scholarships to college based on merit and graduating with honors from high school. I'm speaking from personal experience. BTW, my girls also loved building blocks as did I as a child. I thought you knew better than to gender-type toys.
FallingLeaves, somehow you have turned a simple comment into a huge disagreement. I'm not even sure what you are trying to convince me to believe. I do know this: you couldn't be farther from the truth with your assumptions about me. You can assume what you want. I know when I come home each day I have honestly given my best to teach those children to the best of my ability. I constantly stay in contact with the parents and so far, none have been dissatisfied with their child's teacher. I have children of my own and they, too, had mastered the skills needed before they entered kindergarten. They continue to make me proud of them each day. I wish their high goals and achievements were because of me, but I will not sit back and take credit for their achievements in life. Their hard work and perseverance made them who they are today, not me. I am done with this nit picking about who is right or wrong and will not respond anymore to your negative comments about teachers or me on this thread.
Workingmom, FallingLeaves is the former Baroness, who is the world's most perfect parent and has the most perfect children in the world. She will tell you so. If you disagree with her in any way, she gets really bent out of shape. This is the part that I loved- "I thought you knew better than to gender-type toys"- when butler was asking US, not her, what's appropriate. I don't remember Butler asking her opinion, or that I was speaking to her. Gotta love it!
" Volunteers with this attitude shouldn't be in the classroom with our children." This is supposed to be a personal dig at me. I'm crushed. Ignore her, WorkingMom.
Butler- GET RID OF THE VIDEO GAMES. He needs to be playing and running around and exercising and exploring, NOT PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. I still regret to this day that I ever bought one for my son. If I had known then what I know now, it never would've happened. Nintendo is the worst thing that has ever happened to kids. Schoolwork can never compete with a video game.
I know all this, corgimom. I've just had a long week and tonight I'm pretty tired. I am not in the mood to argue some point which was lost on me a couple of days ago. I am impressed, though, at how you were able to gender type a block of wood simply by mentioning that boys like to play with them. I hope butler's grandson's didn't take offense to your remark. The only word that comes to me after reading all this and shaking my head is "Wow." To butler123, if you want to know what the expectations are at any grade level in Georgia, search for Georgia Performance Standards and the specific grade level and subject you want to know about. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try and answer them for you.