Refutation of gay therapy is wrong

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The psychological community is patting itself on the back for its recent repudiation of reparative therapy, which holds that gay clients can become straight through therapy or other treatments.

These professionals have decided that homosexuality is an unchangeable, genetic trait, and they ignore the research that says that homosexuality is primarily environmentally determined. (See Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth, by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover.)

If homosexuality is genetic and can't be changed, how did I read countless stories on the Internet from former homosexuals who contradict that theory by their words and their lives? And whom are we going to believe? The American Psychological Association? In a few years its experts will be replaced by new experts, who will tell us that sexual attraction to pets is genetic. These psychologists parrot what they hear from Hollywood, the media, academia and mainline churches.

Compare the message from the professionals -- "You can never change your behavior without becoming suicidal" -- with this quote from a former homosexual: "I learned that the need for love and acceptance from a man was not bad, but homosexuality was an illegitimate way to meet a legitimate need. My wife is not my diploma for healing, nor proof I have changed. She is evidence of God's grace in my life." For those post-modernists who can't recognize it, the latter is the sound of triumph.

The doctors will come and go, and the research results will change with the biases of those who lead the studies. What won't change is the witness of the human spirit that tells us male and female are the perfect counterparts. Reject defeat and allow hope to enter.

Kathryn Lehn

Martinez

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Dixieman
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Dixieman 08/20/09 - 05:42 am
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I'm against gay marriage but

I'm against gay marriage but have a moderate position - I think they should be allowed to get engaged!

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 08/20/09 - 06:28 am
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It is another perversion. I
Unpublished

It is another perversion. I wonder what the gay supporters will say in 20 years when the pedophiles claim their behavior is normal and can't be changed.

opiner
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opiner 08/20/09 - 06:42 am
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Just as people choose to be

Just as people choose to be homosexual, they can choose not to be. The extenuating circumstances of environmental influences can make the change a challenge too great for some to overcome or even attempt. For these, it's easier to say the choice is genetic. For adults, the choice shouldn't be challenged.

Grasshopper
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Grasshopper 08/20/09 - 06:59 am
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I agree except that notion

I agree except that notion that men and women are perfect counterparts. Women just have the perfect parts that keep men around.

HotFoot
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HotFoot 08/20/09 - 07:29 am
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I would dearly love to know

I would dearly love to know why the existence of gay people threatens you all so much. Why, Ms. Lehn, do you give a [filtered word] about changing other people? If you're straight, bully for you (and yes, I'm straight). It's none of you business what other people do. Why do you have such an investment in seeing homosexuality as a choice, a sin, a perversion, a disease--i.e., something that can be cured and eradicated? I've got news for you, your narrow-mindedness is a choice, a sin, a perversion, and a disease...so why don't you seek a cure for that?

howcanweknow
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 07:38 am
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Hey HF, Can you use your

Hey HF, Can you use your liberal, materialistic, naturalistic worldview to explain to me the evolutionary advantage behind homosexuality? What is the Darwinian reason for a genetic explanation for homosexuality? If it is a mutation, as psychologists are promoting, how, pray tell, does this gene get passed along to progeny? Because the core tenet of evolutionary theory is passing along DNA, how does homosexuality survive -- given the fact that it is impossible for homosexuals to have children unless the find a mate of the opposite sex? How in the world could homosexuality be a natural, uncontrolled phenomenon given the fact that it defies everything we know of concerning evolution?

dashiel
176
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dashiel 08/20/09 - 07:46 am
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I don't think being born gay

I don't think being born gay is a choice any more than being born Republican is a choice. It's a genetic thang.

concernednative
28
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concernednative 08/20/09 - 07:59 am
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It is not a choice but prayer

It is not a choice but prayer and God's grace can do anything. The choice is if you believe it is wrong seek God's deliverance.

omnomnom
3964
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omnomnom 08/20/09 - 08:05 am
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don't care if its a choice or

don't care if its a choice or genetic or whatever. just don't throw it in my face. have all the civil unions you want, but don't call me precious, and for the love of God petition to have shows like Will & Grace thrown off the air. It does nothing for your cause.

dashiel
176
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dashiel 08/20/09 - 08:26 am
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Omnomnom, are you speaking

Omnomnom, are you speaking for all lesbians?

omnomnom
3964
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omnomnom 08/20/09 - 08:55 am
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not for them, but to them -

not for them, but to them - my good dashiel

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 09:01 am
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Still waiting for a

Still waiting for a thoughtful defense of homosexuality being a valid genetic variation in light of naturalistic Darwinian theory. HF? Justus? Willistown? Bueller? Bueller?

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 09:09 am
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Dashiel, if homosexuality is

Dashiel, if homosexuality is a genetic "thang" as you say, then answer my question. How could such a deadend genetic trait (i.e., mutation) be passed down through history to modern man? Reconcile homosexuality with evolutionary theory, please.

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 08/20/09 - 09:10 am
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Okay DASHIEL, here's your
Unpublished

Okay DASHIEL, here's your sign. And HOTFOOT, gay people remind me of your idiotic daily rants...amusing but nothing else.

zzzzzzt
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zzzzzzt 08/20/09 - 09:36 am
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Why do we care? If it is a

Why do we care? If it is a genetic mutation that causes folks to be gay, so be it. If it bothers people so much, maybe they'll find comfort in knowing that like many genetic mutations in nature which make the individual unlikely to reproduce, it will not be passed to future generations.

howcanweknow
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 09:47 am
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zzzzzt, I agree, but that's

zzzzzt, I agree, but that's the entire point. Homosexuality has existed throughout human history. Is it nature (genetic and uncontrollable) or is it nurture (a choice that can be changed)? Many folks are quite adamant (despite lack of any real scientific proof) that homosexuality must be genetic, and that only religious nuts claim it's a human choice. Well, if it is genetic, then there's no way it could have been passed down through generations. It would have died out long ago because homosexual "couples" can't have kids -- yet we have homosexuals today. Therefore, it is biologically impossible (in light of evolutionary theory) for homosexuality to be genetic. You really can't be a strict believer in Darwinian theory and still maintain that homosexuality is genetic. The two are completely inconsistent with each other. That's the point. It's not "religion" or "politics" that says homosexuality is a choice; science -- at least naturalistic Darwinian evolution -- supports that same conclusion. Science and the Bible are in agreement on this issue.

zzzzzzt
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zzzzzzt 08/20/09 - 10:43 am
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Like many genetic mutations

Like many genetic mutations now being associated with various cancers, it is not pure Mendelian genetics. There may be a genetic predisposition to get a particular cancer, but not everybody with the mutation developes cancer. Therefore the trait may be passed on for generations without being expressed.

FaceTheMusic
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FaceTheMusic 08/20/09 - 10:48 am
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This is one of the most

This is one of the most ridiculous letters I have ever read; and believe me, for the AC, that's saying something. EVERY known medical, psychiatric, or psychological association has determined that being gay is not a choice. People are just born gay or not, and no one yet knows why. To think that a person just wakes up one morning and says, "Gee, I think I'll be gay," is just ludicrous. For all of you straight people, ask yourself, "Could I choose to be gay?" No, you couldn't--no more than a gay person can choose to be straight. Ask any gay person you know, and believe me, you all know some, if he/she "chose" to be gay. I've asked many of my gays friends (and yes, I have many) about this "choice" issue, and they just laugh. As one told me, "You are what you are." And don't bring the Bible into it; Jesus never said ONE word about homosexuality. Why do gays scare you so much? They're your neighbors, they teach your kids, they raise their own kids, they pay their taxes, they serve their country, and they stay out of your bedrooms. Why not stay out of their bedrooms? And face it, they couldn't possibly screw up marriage any more than straight people have.

howcanweknow
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 10:52 am
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Good point. I'm no expert on

Good point. I'm no expert on genetics, for sure. If I remember correctly, if both parents carry a recessive trait, then there's only about a 25% chance that the offspring will exhibit the phenotype. 75% chance they will appear normal. Do you think that over 1000's of years and multiple generations, there would be a significant likelihood that such a recessive trait (that can't be passed down when fully expressed) would be present in 10% of the U.S. population? Just wondering if that is likely.

Dixieman
14942
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Dixieman 08/20/09 - 10:53 am
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It used to be forbidden. Now

It used to be forbidden.
Now it has to be tolerated.
I want to check out before it becomes mandatory!

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 10:59 am
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DSB, get your facts straight

DSB, get your facts straight before you just spout off. Jesus' book, the Bible, condemns homosexuality from Genesis to Revelation. The Bible never claims to print every single word Jesus spoke, so your statement that you know Jesus "never said one word against homosexuality" is just ridiculous. There's no way you could possibly know that! The evidence we DO have from the Bible is very direct and clear. Don't try to dispute obvious fact. You'll end up looking very foolish (see your post above as proof). Jesus aside, if you so convinced that homosexuality is genetic, then tell me how it could have evolved and been passed down to us today? Explain to me the science behind homosexuality? There is no scientific proof for your statement that it's genetic, and pretty good scientific evidence that it is NOT genetic. So, your argument is just opinion, and not based on facts.

Steve Wylie
3
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Steve Wylie 08/20/09 - 11:00 am
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If individuals want to seek

If individuals want to seek reparative therapy, there is no law that prevents them. The APA is saying this is not a practice they will endorse professionally. The author may have a point that some people who think they are gay can change their behavior. There are huge numbers of heterosexuals who, for circumstances in their lives, engage in homosexual behavior. However, these people are not ncessarily homosexuals. The population that is homosexual, be it genetic, hormonal, or other, is actually damaged by reparative attempts. Because the difficulty is in the details, it would be unethical for the APA to endorse a sweeping statement that the population can be "fixed".

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 08/20/09 - 11:01 am
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yawn.
Unpublished

yawn.

dashiel
176
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dashiel 08/20/09 - 11:05 am
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DeepSouthBoy, Thank You for

DeepSouthBoy, Thank You for your honest and reasoned message. It should be published much more widely than here. I don't believe I've ever met anybody who chose to be gay anymore than I have ever known an African-American who would change places with a white man on a Saturday night.

mad_max
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mad_max 08/20/09 - 11:20 am
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Why the discussion? It's

Why the discussion? It's pretty much settled law...except for the marriage thingy. But, there is the law of man and the law of nature. Apparently the law of man has decided that homosexuality is something that is natural and not a choice and is therefore a right. Okay, no big deal. Two consenting adults and all that. But it would seem that all of the research used to justify the validity of homosexuality COULD be used to justify the "uncontrollable" actions and attractions of pedophiles and people who practice beastiality. The difference, of course, is the inability of their partners to consent. But why would we think THEY can be treated and rehabilitated but homosexuals cannot? It would seem to me that sexual attraction comes from the same part of the brain and is either NOT treatable or IS treatable but it can't be one way for one aberation and another way for a different aberration. Make up your minds liberals and if sexual attraction is not treatable then please quit wasting my money trying to treat the "other" perverts and then turning "those" sickos loose on us again. THEY WILL REPEAT OFFEND BECAUSE THEY ARE UNTREATABLE. KEEP THEM LOCKED UP.

DonH
13
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DonH 08/20/09 - 11:27 am
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I don't believe the gay

I don't believe the gay condition is genetic. It is a personality disorder brought on by ones living environment from childhood through adulthood, i.e. conditioning. Therefore, like any other human psychological condition, a gay mentality condition can be treated with professional help.

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 11:34 am
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It's a very telling statement

It's a very telling statement when the only "valid" rationale you can come up with for believing homosexuality is genetic is because "a homosexual told me so". What irresistible logic you are resting your conclusions upon !!! Get real, Dashiel and DSB. Stop putting your opinions out there as fact, and provide a more rational basis for your claims. As I've said, the Bible condemns the homosexual lifestyle. Science cannot provide a valid reason for homosexuality, and if anything, science actually provides evidence against it being anything normal or natural. Homosexuality conflicts with Christianity, Judaism and Islam, and also conflicts with modern scientific ideas of genetics and heredity. If you want to defend it as "normal", go right ahead. You are free to express your opinions. But just know that your views are standing on very shaky ground indeed. The facts simply don't support your opinions.

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 11:46 am
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I don't know of a single

I don't know of a single person who is "afraid" of homosexuals. I had a very good friend of that persuasion, and I never feared him. The topic is whether homosexuality is genetic or a choice, not homophobia (which, again, I've never known anyone to exhibit).

TrukinRanger
1748
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TrukinRanger 08/20/09 - 11:48 am
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This is the most idiotic
Unpublished

This is the most idiotic article that's been printed in a while... The comments here show how backwoods minded people in Augusta can be. There is no such thing as a recovering homosexual.... that's another religious LIE.

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 08/20/09 - 11:56 am
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Again, TinR, where's your

Again, TinR, where's your facts to back up your opinion? There ARE recovering homosexuals. I've read their statements, and religion does not necessarily have to play a role. Please people, just don't spout off uninformed opinions without first checking the available evidence. I'd rather be an informed backwoodsman, than a prejudiced and ignorant ranter.

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