Pastor had it right about work, wealth

This is the end; Beautiful friend; This is the end; My only friend, the end; Of our elaborate plans, the end; Of everything that stands, the end; No safety or surprise, the end; Ill never look into your eyes...again; Can you picture what will be; So limitless and free; Desperately in need...of some...strangers hand; In a...desperate land; This is the end; Beautiful friend; This is the end; My only friend, the end; It hurts to set you free; But youll never follow me; The end of laughter and soft lies; The end of nights we tried to die; This is the end - Jim Morrison

As usual justus, you're wrong. Citizens worked for wages and were responsible for their own retirement. Those that worked smarter did better than those that worked hard but not smart. Wealth envy can be overcome by gaining wealth. Wealth that is confiscated from another and redistributed to the non-achievers is short term. The fear of competition comes from the fear of responsibility and accountability. The collapse of a nation comes from giving up all responsibility and accountability to the government. Quacking "Doom Doom Doom" doesn't change reality. It only distracts the easily tricked for a short time.

These good words from Adrian Rogers are meaningless because of the 24th Amendment. To vote in the United States you had to have a vested interest - own property, pay taxes, etc. Politicians know well that a homeless person living on the street has as much power in the voting booth as anyone in the elite 5% who pays the majority of the tax revenue received by the United States.

A beautiful country gone by the wayside. All we do is sit idly by wringing our hands and doing nothing! Absolutely nothing!

justus4...."For over two hundred yrs some citizens worked for no wages and no retirement benefits, while someone else built their wealth. " Yes, and for over 150 years those same citizens have have certainly taken a break from work, still EARN no wages, and depend on the government for retirement benefits. Please advise when our bill is paid and we can expect to see all of them on the taxPAYER roles.

Same tired Roger's quotes that circulate on the internet and that the Ac keeps runnig in letters. How about his other great quotes: "Mr. President, it would be morally reprehensible for the United States to be 'evenhanded' between democratic Israel . . . and the terrorist infested Palestinian infrastructure." "I believe slavery is a much maligned institution; if we had slavery today, we would not have this welfare mess.""Southern Baptists, by practice as well as conviction, believe leadership is male."

"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you." Perhaps the good pastor needed to read his Bible more.

TechLover has exposed preacher Adrian Rogers as the rabid, reactionary, bigoted, right-wing-wing-nut that he was. Rogers also commended The Shrub for his invasion of Iraq, a sovereign country that exhibited no aggression against the USA, and the resulting death of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and the creation of millions of Iraqi refugees, and the expenditure of $1 trillion (at least). So much for the compassionate Christian. Rogers and his insipid statements are a favorite or the jack-booted religionists among us. A three-time president of the Southern Baptist Convention, Rogers is a poster-boy for the amoral "values" that are at the heart of his mission to, by coercion, threat and fear-mongering, convince people to adopt his vile set of religious dogma. I suppose that the letter writer thinks that it is just fine that more than one-third of the wealth in the USA is controlled by 1% of the population; and 70% of the wealth is controlled by 10% of the population; and corporate CEO pay is now 400 times that of average worker's pay, up from 42:1 in 1960, and 25:1 in Europe. Indeed, slavery is "much maligned" and is, undoubtedly, a solution to many societal ills.

In the 1950's the rich were taxes @ 90%. The shift of the tax burden to those who could afford it allowed for the middle class to be born and thrive. GDP soared and everyone benefited from allowing the working poor to move up economically. They bought houses, cars, and spent more cash eating out, going to the movies, etc. Reagan shifted the tax burden back to the middle class in the 80's. He gave the rich a massive tax cut and doubled SS tax to pay for it. There's a cap on SS tax so the rich made out like bandits. Now the middle class is shrinking and the top 1% owns more wealth than the bottom 90%. Reagan was the king of transfer of wealth. So give me a break you poor rich folks!

grouse, perhaps you should read with understanding.

Justus4 - it is 2009 not 1865. If a specific race hasn't made it by now with all of the reverse discrimination like affirmative action, and race based scholarships, welfare, free housing, etc then does anybody really expect them to ever make it? One only needs to look at the lack of civility, modernization, advancement, and invention of the poorest continent on the planet.

The cons talk about how the left uses class warfare. I say the right uses it just as effectively if not more so; reading many of these comments. You are all so afraid someone will get a free lunch. The few scraps the poor receive from welfare are drops in the bucket compared to what the thieves on Wall Street just stole from our 401ks. Now they're getting corporate welfare for a job done so well they nearly collapsed the world markets. The true "welfare queen" is corporate America!

Nobody stole anything from your 401k. You have sole control as to how your funds are invested so once again you want to blame others instead of accepting responsibility for your actions. Hypocrite. The left and right are both to blame. Where was Congress who supposedly regulates the banking industry? Where was the FDIC and the SEC? Do you need anymore examples of how poorly large government institutions perform? Barney Frank, Richard Shelby, Chris Dodd and their ilk failed and should be punished so punish them at the voting booth.

I guess the money just vanished. Somebody made a whole lot of money on this and it wasn't you or me. You're right both the dems and reps are at fault. They both voted for deregulation. The wonderful "free market" at work! By the way, I didn't "invest" in high risk mortgage-backed securities, CDOs, or CDSs either. I put my money in low-moderate risk funds. I didn't expect my 401k to lose 1/2 its value in about a month, neither did I expect it to double in a month. So go ahead and blame us average people for investing in our retirement. How dare we expect responsible investment strategies from CEOs making 100s of millions in bonuses for running their funds into the ground!

You and only you are responsible for your investment strategies. Do you or did you even know what the top 10 holdings were in these funds you were invested in? They must disclose them by law so they are available along with a prospectus so don't blame others for you not doing your due diligence and understanding how you were investing your money. If you don't understand an investment or the companies you invest in them I would suggest not investing in them. Nobody held a gun to your head. Take some individual responsibility.

I admit that I have responsibility in my investing. But will you admit that fund managers acted out of greed rather than a commitment to their investors.

justus, you really seem like an angry person still stuck in the 1800's. How sad.

RE: Ode's statement -- "it is 2009 not 1865. If a specific race hasn't made it by now..." This sort of thinking belies (1) Your poor education; or, (2) Attendance at too many Klan meetings; or, (3) Too much time spent listening to right-wing-reactionaries, epitomized by R. Limbaugh; or, (4) All of the foregoing. Segregation was firmly entrenched in all aspects of life in the USA (particularly the glorious, rabidly Christian South), including the schools, until late 1969 when in "Alexander v. Holmes County Board of Education," the Supreme Court BEGAN to enforce desegregation. It took many more years to make any real headway. Oh, well, this is only about 104 years after the "magical" date you cited. With respect to, as you say, the "poorest continent on the planet," Africa was the fiefdom of European colonial powers, that enslaved the natives (through apartheid and other means), and sucked the national resources out of those countries. Now, let's see, did that end in 1865? Try, 1992. So, your impatience at "so much time" having being devoted to righting the wrongs is not based on fact, but rather imagination, bias and emotion. The Civil War did not end oppression of Blacks

I can't speak for fund managers though I don't understand how their greediness would benefit them since they usually charge fees based on client assets so if their clients lose assets they lose revenue. Fund managers' historical records by in large are poor so I do my own investing istead of depending on others. I take responsibility for my own actions. If you have time to watch American Idol you have time to research some investments.

Idiots are in denial about slavery and racism - they are from another planet. They think everything they own came through honesty.

No sheeite Knave. So 4+ decades isn't enough time for a person to "make it" when the skids have been greased to help them at the expense of others? I don't see very many Asian immigrants who have been in this country roughly the same amount of time as all Americans have had civil rights continue to wallow in self pity and live on welfare.

Europe controlled the entire continent of Africa until 1992? You might need to study geography and history a bit more. So is your point that.....the white man worldwide regardless of nationality or religion is just a mean SOB?

plus the pastor said it right - the gov allowed a lot of sweat and blood to be taken from Blacks to give to the whites through slavery and u people are trying to justify that - give me a break. I personally feel they this pastor did not know our Lord Jesus.

not saying that - I said that the whites in american gained something for nothing through the blood of blacks - your ancestors got something for nothing and passed it own to U - if not they had the opp to get something for nothing - if u do not understand that - study your history.

Good for you Ode! You sound like such a happy person! It's so nice to discuss issues with someone who is not at all judgmental and condescending!

Why are there many that have succeeded and progressed in their professions and don't continue the poor me, poor me mentality along with the wealth envy? There are those that feel so sorry for themselves and want to dwell on the past while many have gotten their education and didn't sit back and expect someone else to give them something. There are many that have been treated poorly and have gone on to earn their way own way by hard work. They don't feel it necessary to keep looking back to the past and blaming someone else for their life.

RE: Ode's "Europe controlled the entire continent of Africa until 1992? You might need to study geography and history a bit more." Since, by choice or societal failure, you don't know this important fact, I'll provide it to you, gratis, as a way of atoning for society's obvious negative influences on you. South Africa, by far the largest country in sub-Saharan Africa, was under the rule of apartheid until 1992. I was using that as an important milestone, vis-a-vis, your citing of 1865 as a significant date. Although it would obviously delight you for me to have said "Europe controlled the entire continent of Africa until 1992," I said no such thing. And "no" is my answer to your question about whether or not "4 decades" is enough. It hasn't been 40 years; many of the actions during those years have been ineffectual; and forty years is not very long. (Unless, perhaps, you are one of the folk who think that the cosmos is only 5,000 years old.) And "yes" is the answer to your question about the negative influences of the white man. The white man has been Sky-Daddy's instrument of oppression for a very long time, against a very large number of people, of many non-white races.

"With respect to, as you say, the "poorest continent on the planet," Africa was the fiefdom of European colonial powers, that enslaved the natives (through apartheid and other means), and sucked the national resources out of those countries. Now, let's see, did that end in 1865? Try, 1992" Posted by The Knave on Sun May 31, 2009 3:42 PM ----- You indeed said Africa was held down by Europe until 1992.

So Knave tell us how many decades of affirmative action, race based scholarships, welfare, unconstitutional actions by the NAACP and the UNCF will be needed for people to "make it?"