Waterboarding helped protect nation

One of the best written letters and opinions on the subject I have seen. Mr. Harris is correct in EVERY aspect concerning the enhanced methods and WHY they were used. He is correct is the RESULT of the use of these methods. He is correct that BOTH parties knew about these methods. The Obama admin (and Obama is a Democratic President FYI) appointed Leon Panetta (another Democratic Party memeber FYI) to run the CIA and Good Ol' Leon aid this about Speaker Pelosi's selective memory, "...the political debates about interrogation reached a new decibel level yesterday when the CIA was accused of misleading Congress." Panetta said in a letter to agency employees. "Let me be clear: It is not our policy or practice to mislead Congress. That is against our laws and our values. As the agency indicated previously in response to congressional inquiries, our contemporaneous records from September 2002 indicate that CIA officers briefed truthfully on the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, describing 'the enhanced techniques that had been employed.' Ultimately, it is up to Congress to evaluate all the evidence and reach its own conclusions about what happened."

Nonsense. It has been determined that information was gleaned without waterboarding and stopped once waterboarding was initiated. It is also illegal. It is contrary to American principles.

Yeah, that is why the Democratic CIA Director defended the CIA and called Pelosi a liar...also, he refused to release the results from the interrogations which you can bet would be released if they showed that these methods produced no result or false intelligence. These methods are not torture. These methods work, they always have and always will. Too bad domestic politics trumps National Security with some people.

No Brad, BUSH signed that directive. He made it illegal to declassify them. Check your facts. There is NEVER any excuse for TORTURE. Also, there isn't any proof that torture works, only statements by one of the most vile men ever to exist, Richard Cheney.

Little Hitler? Thanks GACopperhead, that was deserved by me for disagreeing with you. By the way, you guys diminish the crimes of the Nazis when you throw petty comments out like that. I suggest you try to look at the FACTS and make some educated postings. You're quite emotional aren't you? I do agree with you that torture doesn't work, these methods are not torture. Also, classified documents should never be released for domestic political gain. Also, tell me this, if the methods DIDN'T work, then why not go ahead and release all the 'false' information surrounding the 'bad' intel gained from these guys? I have been a HUGE critic of Dubya and his gang, but this is different. Here we have a sitting Speaker of the House who claimed the CIA mislead her. It is a crime to lie to congress and she has made a colossal mistake in making those accusations. I don't agree with much Reichpublicans (far right GOP) say, but Pelosi dug her own hole here and I feel this must be investigated to find out who is telling the truth. If Pelosi is saying she was lied to by the CIA it is a crime, if she is lying, she is finished. It's putting domestic politics over National Security and it is pathetic.

The Army taught me for 20 years that prisoners were to be treated humanely and not harrassed in ANY way. The Army Field Manual is explicit. So we were wrong in our initial treatment of the prisoners. However, there have always been cases where vital information HAD to be extracted with whatever means from a very few important prisoners. Our mistake was making our methods public. Further, waterboarding as was done by the Japanese in WW II was much different than our version. They did it until death. Our version scared the prisoners into thinking it was going to be more. It was only the hint of classic waterboarding.

By the way, All of this could have been avoided by not releasing the classified CIA memos concerning the interrogations for domestic political gain. So Obama screwed Pelosi with that one and hence the sudden 'reversal' of his open door policy on classified intelligence concerning all this. Why aren't all of you emotional types crying a river over Pelosi? Why aren't all of you Monday Morning Quarterbacks talking about anyone else but Bush?

Nonsense. It has been determined that information was gleaned without waterboarding and stopped once waterboarding was initiated. It is also illegal. It is contrary to American principles.
Posted by grouse on Mon May 18, 2009 3:56 AM ---------------- Oh really grouse...... So you've seen the information that the President refuses to release on what information WAS gleaned WITH waterboarding?

Riverman1, you are correct but these guys were not Geneva Convention prisoners that you were taught about in the 'Laws of Land Warfare' classes. Your assessment that "vital information HAD to be extracted with whatever means from a very few important prisoners" is 100% correct. Also, let me point out that I would be willing to bet that the REAL reason the information from these interrogations cannot be released is because it DID provide information some of which is still being exploited. Now I don't know that for a fact but my 15 years in the intel business tells me that there is much much more to this than CAN be released. Obama made a mistake when he released the CIA memos concerning this. He should have maintained the classification and refused, on National Securty grounds, to relaease these documents. It is just aother amatuer mistake that Jimmy Carter Part Deux has and will make.

Like I said, there have always been cases where extreme measures had to be used. We wisely kept it quiet to protect OUR men. However, the Geneva Convention argument doesn't work. Our soldiers are taught and trained that all combatants are to be treated humanely, including irregulars. Just because they never signed the Geneva Convention rules does not mean they can be tortured. Now realize I said above, our form of waterboarding was not the classic near death version that confuses everyone. It was a hint of that.

GAC....... Obama has reversed some of Bush's executive orders...........why not this one?

So GAC.....you would rather 1000's were killed in a plot that we couldn't foil than waterboard a terrorist? Some American you are.

Riverman1, I agree with you on those points, BUT these guys were not 'irregulars' as defined by the Geneva Convention. They were not part of any established military organization. They were a terrorist organization operating inside Taliban held territory with thier tacit approval but they had no Afghanistani National Security role in any official capacity. So they cannot be defined as 'irregulars' under the Geneva Convention.

Now SisterAX, lets not start calling them unAmerican for thier views. Remember, that is why we fight, so that people can speak thier minds freely without threat. Now, should they be made fun of? Yes. They think we can talk our way into the hearts of ignorant Talibani and AQ terrorist if we just pulled out and let them have thier way with the people they oppress. I say freedom is worth supporting and fighting for. The last time we left the Taliban to its own devices, they allowed AQ to establish training camps and to plan the 9-11 attacks. That is reason enough to fight them for as long as it takes to beat them or keep them at bay. I would rather spend 1.9trillion doing that instead of nationalizing the banking industry (at least national Defense is the ROLE of the Feds in the USC).

It's all about the PR. As long as the myrmidons are crying, "hate Bush, hate Bush" they won't be paying attention to the incompetent leader in D.C. The easily tricked also seem to be the easily misled and easily manipulated. CNN is like a conductor directing a school of minnows. Well, at least no natural disasters have been blamed on Bush lately. I guess things are improving. Change we can believe in.

Riverman1, The CIA is not bound to the Army Field Manual.

Shag said, "Riverman1, The CIA is not bound to the Army Field Manual." They are now. I am simply telling you that the military has always been taught to handle ALL prisoners humanely. Do I think the CIA or its equivalent in WW II did extreme things now and then? Absolutely. Again, my point is that for a few prisoners with important, critical info, you have to do what you have to do, but that is only for a few and should never be made public. By the way. sure Pelosi knew.

shaq, that is true but we in the intelligence community (civie or military) ARE bound by the same directives when it comes to collection of intelligence. Hence the FISA Courts and such but most of the restrictions are about us being used to spy on Amerivcan citizens INSIDE American territory. That is the special reserve of the FBI. Now, with that said, I don't feel that these methods are torture and they did prodiuce results or the intel would have been released by the Obama Admin already along with the other CIA documents they saw as a quick way to gain domestic political points. It is sad when the amatuers in the White House didn't consider all the collateral damage they were going to inflict by using classified National Security information for cheap political gains. Again, it's putting domestic politics over National Security and it is pathetic. PATHETIC!

Riverman1, you are correct in what you say as far as Army training (I can't speak about the CIA having never been a part of thier operations directly) and I agree, Pelosi knew about it and she made a HUGE mistake saying she was misled. Then she tried to backtrack saying that she meant the "Bush Admin, not the intel guys at CIA" when she saw that she had accused the CIA of doing something illegal. Words from some back-bench nobody Congressman like that is one thing, but when you have the Speaker of the House making claims she was lied to in Top Secret classified intel breifings, its is another all together. Where are the calls for 'investigations' of her allegations? Doesn't something as serious as accusing the CIA of lying to the then Minority Leader, now Speker, merit looking into?

Concerning the water boarding and the fall out from the democrats lies, Cheney fired back and pushed Pelsoi into a corner. Pelosi's intelligence is no match for Cheney. Cheney he speaks freely and competently when interviewed. Cheney's face is stern and his speech is always consistent. Pelosi when interviewed babbles then shifts her eyes and smiles. Her speech is contradicvtive and coached. Pelosi let her power go to her head and believes she is untouchable. Now with her babbling lies she fell straight into the political trap that was set for her. Waterboarding is not torture to any non-US Citizen. The enemy combatants were not, permanently, mentally or physically harmed. If I were jailed I were rather be at Gitmo than any federal prison.

Tom' Let us know when you have been waterboarded, and let us know, if you felt as if you were beign tortured!

The question this letter raises is not about water boarding. The question is about the intestinal fortitude and courage of our leaders. I am going to say that what the CIA did was wrong (for the sake of my argument).. At one time congress aquiesced to the inhanced interrogation techniques of the CIA. Now Pelosi doesn't have the courage to stand by her decision or admit the truth and reverse her self. Pelosi doesn't deserve the postion she has because of her using our national security for her political gain! The President and Congress asked the CIA and our militaryto keep us safe and they did. Now Pelosi is calling the CIA leirs which is contemptable!

George and Dick have never leveled with the american people! If we were able to put up with them for eight years, with all their lies, then just deal with this president!!

Bush and Cheney started this country on the road to ruin. Obama's leadership just may save us. Notre Dame speech was a great start to bring people together on abortion.

1941, Nancy Pelosi along with THIS president made a mistake. They opened up this can of worms and now would like to close it. I said this over two weeks ago. Panetta coming out last week to reiterate that Pelosi knew, had to be under the direction of Obama. He could/would not have made those statements without his knowledge and approval. P.S. George and Dick are gone. I am not sure if you were aware of that.

kill a baby for Obama, it's a matter of choice.

Shivas, dream on about coming together on abortion. Your statement today is as rediculous as Justus4's statement!

shaq, YOU GOT IT! That is the problem here. Bush didn't release these CIA memos, the Obama admin did and when they did they hung Pelosi out to dry over it. Panetta is telling the truth and that is why Pelosi is trying to switch the focus off of herself and onto the 'Bush Administration'. She didn't REALLY mean the CIA had misled her, it was Bush, despite her CLEAR accusations that the CIA, not Bush Admin officials misled her. She is trapped and I don't see this going away without EVERYTHING going away. This was a political move that blew up in their faces and it was a stupid amatuer move. Obama is not JFK, he is 'Jimmuh Carter Part Deux' bless his heart.

Oh Shivas, Bush and Cheney are gone. Apparently MSNBC, CNN, CBS, ABC, and NBC have not notified any of you yet. They left in January.