The CIA agents will not be prosecuted. The lawyers who wrote the memos that gave cover to torture are unlikely to be tried in criminal court, but may face disbarment, ostracism and substantial risk if they travel outside the country.
Jay Bybee should either resign his federal judgeship or be impeached. President Bush, former Vice President Dick Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, for a variety of reasons, probably will never be brought to trial. In their case, we missed the only real opportunity for justice when we failed to impeach them. However, they also may be vulnerable if they travel abroad.
So here we are, with only the most minor of the torturers, the noncoms at Abu Ghraib, convicted of doing what their bosses, all the way up the ladder, really wanted them to do. This remains a blot on our military justice system.
I think our president should give them a full pardon, in consideration of the fact that the most senior ones responsible will never appear in court to defend themselves. We must make it clear that we do not convict minor players when the big fish go scot-free. That should mean also giving them all clean discharges, erasing dishonorable ones. This would be a small price to pay for our inability or unwillingness to bring the majors to justice.
There are many Americans who agree with Cheney in the belief that we were justified in torturing our captives for whatever intelligence we could get, to minimize the chance of another 9-11.
Changing that view is necessary, and would be helped substantially by having a respected group investigate and publish a full accounting of the torture of our prisoners, balancing any gain in intel with the resulting damage done to our good name and our security. That should reduce the chance of ever going this way again.
Victor Reilly
Aiken
The Augusta Chronicle ©2010. All Rights Reserved.
Perhaps Mr. Reilly would like to hand deliver Bin Laden an apology on behalf of all Americans. I'll help with the plane ticket. "that should reduce the chance of (Mr. Reilly) ever going this way again"
Mr. Reilly has written a very thoughtful LTE and we can only hope it will be well received by the those on the other side of this issue. GGpap
Mr. Reilly, Abu Ghraib was lower level enlisted personnel having "fun" at the prisoners expense. To take this as part of the Bush policy on enhanced interrogation is the worst of logic. Abu Graib was a failure in leadership from the top down period. Your stupid use of a failure in discipiline shows the weakness of your arguments. That is like saying the White House's improper fly over of New York, with Air Force One, that spread panick demonstrates Obama is incapable of being commander in chief of the armed forces. The proper people were punished at Abu Ghraib!
Oh, and Mr Reilly, the commander of Abu Ghraib was relieved of command and demoted, it wasn't just the enlisted that were punished, the commander was an idiot for not knowing what was going on, that was her job!
Can we at least tie pelosi to a board somewhere? Please??
If the political second guessing and torture Mr Reilly purports takes place, what will the pay-back be like when this anti-American Marxist leaves office with his criminal cabinet and appointees? I know many lefties are jealous of third world politics, but is this really what they want?
What is required in war often times needs not be made public. I still think what Hussein (Saddam, not Obama) once said, before we ever set foot in Iraq, remains true to this day. He was taunting us but basically said Americans didn't have the stomach for war!
War is good! War is God! Kill! Kill! kill!
If we are going to clear the air then perhaps a world tribunal to bring all the countries accused of torture to justice. European countries like Spain, France, and U.K., USSR, Asian countries, African countries, South America, Israel, Arab countries, etc. The mantra of war is kill, kill, kill because the objective is to destroy or conquer. War is actually good because it marks all the changes and successions in history that is responsible for the present world map. Surely it will change again and war will drive it. We waged war against England, against the American Indian, against Spain, against each other in the civil war, etc to establish the U.S. War is a part of the human condition and human history for better or worst. Of course you can pretend humanity is noble and like some futuristic movie-hey even Star Trek and Star Wars had war too come think of it. Peace and love is fundamentalist religious nonsense.
Barrowing 1/3rd of what our country spends is going to ruin us. How will we pay it back? Mean while the left concentrates of Bush and POSSIBLE criminal activity while the likes of Frank, Murtha (corrupt to the hilt politicians) and Obama spend us into oblivian. We will be ran by China and Saudia Arabia and a shoot won't have been fired while we are being taken over by greed, half baked ideas and laziness! Argue about this nonsense all you want, it won't matter and the Chi Coms and Saudies will do exactly what they want to the environment and America.
If you want to talk about torture that is legal in this country lets mention unborn babies having their brains sucked out or partial birth abortions where the baby lives and is thrown to the side like a piece of garbage to die. Or torture of medical personnel that the left wants to require to perform such medical procedures that go against their belief system. In that context, the torture of some terrorists in order to SAVE lives instead of DETROYING lives seems so very appropriate. Terrorists have inflicted torture on our people by giving them the choice to burn to death or jump to their death. They have tortured them by slowly hacking their heads off. Terrorists don't care if they torture and kill soldiers or CIVILIANS. Sit in your ivory towers on your moral high ground and you will become the next terrorist targets. Practice now and repeat after me: "Allah Akbar!" because that is the only way you MIGHT escape the coming and continuing terrorist objectives.
GACOP, stupid post...really beneath you, pal. And VICTOR REILLY, I'll ask you like I ask every other lib who screams torture, how do we successfully combat global terrorism? Years of negotiation between Israel and the Palestinians have gotten nothwhere. When you realize that you can't treat these butchers like soldiers, then maybe you'll see the light. I doubt it.
Yesterday, Obama successfully kept Brits from releasing secret documents on torture used against Binyam Mohamed. Of course, some of the material was leaked anyway. The technique of "private part" slicing was part of the enhanced interrogation. I don't known why people are defending this stuff. What goes around, comes around. If it hasn't been used on our captured soldiers, it will be as part of the perpetual of cycle of eye for an eye, slice for a slice, etc. I would think that the military would be hopping mad at whatever small group of people did this.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/12/obama/index.html
Stupidest post of the day award goes to: overburdened taxpayer. Torture is NOT legal ANYWHERE in America. Abortions IS NOT torture because it is done in a safe medical facility. Waterboarding is ILLEGAL as of our ratification of anti-torture treaties under one Ronald Reagan.
So it's not torture because it is done in a safe medical environment? The terrorists were interrogated with medical people standing by so that is not torture by your definition there Willi. According to you lefties, torture is torture is torture and there is NO justification for it. But again I will remind you that torture is legal in the US. If sucking brains out of a HUMAN BEING isn't torture or throwing a live baby to the side to die is not torture then nothing is. Requiring medical personnel to perform murders of babies which is against their beliefs is the same as putting a gun to someone's head and telling them if they don't kill for you they will be killed. That is a torture of the soul and is what the left wants to require, by law (LEGALLY) of medical personnel with convictions against abortion.
"ILLEGAL as of our ratification of anti-torture treaties under one Ronald Reagan." Posted by willistontownsc on Thu May 14, 2009 12:33 PM - And embryonic stem cell research funding was illegal and now it's not so your point is what? this country changes the laws to reflect the current powerbrokers. So when conservatives get back in office they should prosecute Obama for allowing federal money to be used for embryonic stem cell research? Remember, it was illegal and now it's not and will probably be illegal again.
WILLISTON, I'd say your posts deserve the title you just mentioned. Congratulations.
thanks southernguy.
War is good! War is God! Kill! Kill! kill!
Posted by GACopperhead on Thu May 14, 2009 7:42 AM....winning is good when war has been declared on us.
Stupidest post of the day award goes to: overburdened taxpayer. Torture is NOT legal ANYWHERE in America. Abortions IS NOT torture because it is done in a safe medical facility. Waterboarding is ILLEGAL as of our ratification of anti-torture treaties under one Ronald Reagan.
Posted by willistontownsc on Thu May 14, 2009 12:33 PM....Willi, give us the link to thos treaties you claim Reagan signed. Also, during waterboarding, it is done in a sanitary facility with a doctor standing by just like you claom for an abortion. BTW, a sitting President can change nay treaty he disagrees with. Hell, just ask your boy BimbObama.
JACK, shame on you, asking a liberal for proof of their accusation!
UN Conventions Against Torture, jack. 21 years ago. Year number 8 of 12 under the conservative dictatorship of Reagan/Bush 41/Quayle.
overburdened taxpayer, you have outdone your OWN stupidity with your 13:47 post. Again, abortion is a woman's right -- and it should not be abridged. Rights come before most anything else under our Constitution. You have a problem with that, tell the Founding Fathers how wrong they were.
I agree that rights come before most anything else. US citizens have the right to LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. You are not able to pursue happiness if you are standing there deciding whether to burn or jump and no matter which of the two decisions you make there is no LIFE. There is no liberty in that situation as you are trapped with only two choices, both of which lead to death. So I would assume that those rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness that our founding fathers deemed essential allows us to use enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorists so that we can keep those valuable rights.
And you are always talking about the "woman's" rights. What about the baby's rights? I always understood that your rights end when they begin to abridge another's rights. I have the right to bear arms but if I bear my arms pointing them at you and fire I have abridged your right to LIFE so therefore my right to bear arms no longer applies.
willis I think the only reason you are for abortion is because you can go screw around and if a mistake happens you don't have to face the responsibilities that go with your choices.
Only a fool would defend torturing people..Torture is wrong, regardless of the person, you don't gain anything worth keeping from someone who was tortured...Flawed intelligence gathered on behalf of a flawed administration ran by flawed people and a former VP who is nothing more that Darth Vader out of costume...
overburdened taxpayer, you know nothing about me. I support abortion because I want women to have the same reproductive rights as I do. The moment anyone -- male or female -- talk about taking away a right from women that they would not take away from men, it is a misogynistic argument and a violation of the woman's right to liberty.
Im not for abortion... but I can think of a few people who might should have been aborted.
Holy cow, willi, what do you know about liberty?