Discharged gay soldiers broke the law

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I am a retired Air Force veteran.

Recently, Rachel Maddow, an MSNBC-TV talk show host, interviewed an Army lieutenant who was discharged because he violated the Army's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The lieutenant was a West Point graduate and had served in Iraq. He openly admitted to his superiors that he was gay. Also, the show pointed out the Army had discharged more than 12,500 soldiers for violating the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

It appeared to me the purpose of the show was to portray discharged gay Army personnel as victims of an unfair policy. Rachel Maddow wanted the viewers to be sympathetic to the discharged soldiers and to disregard the oppressive facts.

The facts are that the discharged lieutenant and the more than 12,500 discharged soldiers were lawbreakers. They were discharged not because they were gay, but because they were fools. They made a conscious decision to violate an Army policy. Victims they are not. Lawbreakers they are.

The lieutenant is the bigger fool because he is a West Point graduate and should have exercised better judgment. As an Army officer, he was expected to model a law-abiding example for his subordinates. He did the opposite.

Army officers cannot selectively disobey Army policies that are not in agreement with their lifestyle.

Kevin Palmer

Martinez

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willistontownsc
55
Points
willistontownsc 05/09/09 - 03:44 am
0
0
Sorry, Mr. Palmer, but it is

Sorry, Mr. Palmer, but it is Bill Clinton, George Bush and the military that broke the law here by embracing Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And you are aiding and abetting them in breaking the law that forbids discrimination against people based on race, gender, religion and SEXUAL ORIENTATION. I applaud Ms. Maddow for bringing up a subject that everyone else is too cowardly to confront. And I applaud the West Point guy for being the brave man that he is and exposing it.

jeffreyd
0
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jeffreyd 05/09/09 - 04:26 am
0
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Wowe- really? It's people

Wowe- really? It's people like you who keep the world from evolving into a better place. We don't need tolerance- we need acceptance. So with this 'don't ask, don't tell' policy- does that mean you cant admit your straight as well as gay? Shame on you and anyone who supports this.

overburdened_taxpayer
117
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overburdened_taxpayer 05/09/09 - 04:31 am
0
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They all probably told so

They all probably told so they could get their cowardly butts discharged and not go to war. The West Point graduate got what he wanted, an education and degree then couldn't "man up" to his obligations. The real victims here are the taxpayers who paid for the training of these 12,500 that ended up being useless.

whoami_abcd
0
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whoami_abcd 05/09/09 - 05:58 am
0
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I'm still trying to figure

I'm still trying to figure out what solder, a fuseable metal alloy, has to do with the military. Not sure if it was an error by the AC staff or the writer, but I believe the word you were going for was "soldier".

patriciathomas
42
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patriciathomas 05/09/09 - 06:05 am
0
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yes whoami abce, (sic) a

yes whoami abce, (sic) a horrible typo like that sure did confuse the whole issue....for some.

patriciathomas
42
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patriciathomas 05/09/09 - 06:10 am
0
0
The ruling said, don't ask

The ruling said, don't ask don't tell, or in more simple terms, the army was not to pursue the question and the [filtered word] were to not flaunt their sexual preferences. Or, as Clinton made so clear, don't start nothin' and there won't be nothin'. Apparently, the gay lieutenant and his 12,500 gay cohorts felt flaunting was just to special to leave out of their life while in the army. Cool. They found that provisions had been made for their attitude.

Junket831
0
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Junket831 05/09/09 - 07:27 am
0
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I'm not sure the discharged

I'm not sure the discharged military personnel are fools. They took a stand and suffered the consequences for their action. They were fully aware of what would happen, particularly the Army Lieutenant featured on the show. My guess is that he and the others were either looking for a way out or just tired of the double standard. In time the policy will be changed whether we like it our not. Public opinion is changing and the younger generation doesn't care any more. The problem this all leaves the rest of us is a situation in which half the population is appalled and the other half isn't concerned.

overburdened_taxpayer
117
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overburdened_taxpayer 05/09/09 - 07:43 am
0
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The only reason public

The only reason public opinion is changing is because of Hollywood indoctrination. It started with a gay character here and a gay character there. Now you can hardly watch a show on tv or a movie without a gay character. In fact some shows and moves have gays as their main characters. Remember "Will and Grace"?

JesusIsComing
2
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JesusIsComing 05/09/09 - 07:54 am
0
0
Rachel Maddow? Well, there

Rachel Maddow? Well, there you go . . .

dashiel
176
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dashiel 05/09/09 - 08:11 am
0
0
This hypocritical policy

This hypocritical policy doesn't seem to have worked for Georgia Democrats either.

confederate american
0
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confederate american 05/09/09 - 08:27 am
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msnbc fair and balanced,yea

msnbc fair and balanced,yea right,the lowest rated news show out there,just another bs news channel.the fox nation rules the air ways

pantherluvcik
628
Points
pantherluvcik 05/09/09 - 08:41 am
0
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I think it's just silly and

I think it's just silly and should be illegal to have to hide your sexual preference from the military. I don't think they would just be running around grabbing butts. Adults who are comfortable with their sexuality should be able to function in a diverse atmosphere. I don't think it's necessary to advertise it, but if you mention it or someone finds out, you shouldn't be dismissed. And I do think some people will take advantage of that law to keep from going to war.

JohnQPublic
5
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JohnQPublic 05/09/09 - 09:02 am
0
0
"Don't ask, don't tell"

"Don't ask, don't tell" doesn't make any sense. It's a rule made up by a group of homophobic men who haven't got a clue. Live and let live and worry about what YOU are doing wrong! I wonder how many of the "upstanding citizens" who made this rule is a drunks, or cheated on their spouse. We ALL live in glass houses and shouldn't throw stones. Show me someone who says their life and their whole family is perfect and I'll show you a liar.

Tots
26092
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Tots 05/09/09 - 09:07 am
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Patriciathomas-6:10 and

Patriciathomas-6:10 and Junket831-at7:27.I liked what you both had to say.Have a great day.

Bizkit
33275
Points
Bizkit 05/09/09 - 09:23 am
0
0
"Don't ask, don't tell" is a

"Don't ask, don't tell" is a logical policy. Sexual preference is no ones business and it would be discriminatory to specifically make mention of them. Discrimination because of gender, race, or age is notable because you can't help but notice, but sexual preference is "hidden". If you make an exception and discriminate because of sexual preference then pedophiles would qualify under equality of the law. Just like the hate laws would apply to gays and pedophiles. For women it is difficult enough in the military so if it is known they are lesbian you can imagine the added grief. Seems these soldiers just want personal attention more than issue attention.

pofwe
5
Points
pofwe 05/09/09 - 09:50 am
0
0
I could never figure out if

I could never figure out if people are born that way OR get "sucked into it." Which is it justusforwillistonsc?

pofwe
5
Points
pofwe 05/09/09 - 09:56 am
0
0
panther, "... illegal to have

panther, "... illegal to have to hide your sexual preference from the military." Homosexuality cannot be hidden from a bunch of "horny young people." Thats how many get "sucked-into this lifestyle." You know young, dumb, & full-of-rum.

Bizkit
33275
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Bizkit 05/09/09 - 10:01 am
0
0
People are caught up on the

People are caught up on the issue rather than the rule of law. There are plenty of people in prison for smoking pot. Seems a ridiculous law but I'm sure getting on the soap box protesting the law is ridiculous won't give them much clout from being arrested for flaunting the law. If these soldiers wanted to make a point they should have resigned and then made their point. If these gay soldiers were allowed to stay and then violence fell upon them how would hate laws apply? The hate laws as proposed would protect gays and pedophiles, but an exception is made for the military. So it would be difficult to prove violence as hate because he is gay because a resonable doubt of non-hate violence because he is in the military. Insanity.

Bizkit
33275
Points
Bizkit 05/09/09 - 10:07 am
0
0
It is insane. The gays ask

It is insane. The gays ask not be discriminated against in the military but then hate laws would specifically discriminate for them. Both are discriminatory. If you don't ask or don't tell it is a non-issue and no one is being discriminated against. Some people like broccoli some don't-who cares! The analogy applies.

GuyIncognito
1
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GuyIncognito 05/09/09 - 10:32 am
0
0
Having the don't ask, don't

Having the don't ask, don't tell policy about sexual orientation is akin to having a don't ask, don't tell policy about race or gender. You can be in the military, just don't tell anyone you're a woman - and we had women pretending to be men in WWII, WWI, the Civil War, etc, eventually the armed forces integrated. We are on the verge of another type change, the military became a stronger force before and likely will only strengthen by inclusion.

Bill
0
Points
Bill 05/09/09 - 10:38 am
0
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Regardless of their reasons

Regardless of their reasons for revealing their sexual orientation, just like the rest of us, this LT and the 12,500 others were interviewed at MEPS before even signing their lives away to the MILITARY. During the interview, they were made aware that they could not be a part of this great nation's MILITARY if they were homosexual. By not speaking up and proceeding with signing the contract, they joined the MILITARY under false pretenses and should be expected to suffer the consequences. There are valid reasons behind this policy that civilians can't be expected to understand.

carcraft
27257
Points
carcraft 05/09/09 - 10:45 am
0
0
I am a medical provider. I

I am a medical provider. I am subject to random screens for drugs. If I choose to use drugs (THC) and get cought I can't them claim my rights have been violated. A West Point graduate should understand this. The rules in the military are to provide for good order and conduct and the military doesn't give a rat's rear about your private life until it interfers with good order and conduct. That is why a superior officer (even outside an enlisted soldier's chain of command ) can't date the soldier. That is why adultry is subject to UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) prosecution, especially for an officer. That is why a soldier canot appear in a nudie magazine or have a large number of tatoos or tatoos that are visible when wearing the uniform1

bone
23
Points
bone 05/09/09 - 10:53 am
0
0
a west point grad who chooses

a west point grad who chooses a cowardly exit after bilking taxpayers out of the cost of his education. no matter which side of the political fence you are on, demanding that he pay back every penny for violating his sworn duty to follow the orders of the commander in chief - "don't ask, don't tell" is an executive, binding directive for military members - and he should be jailed for conduct unbecoming an officer. i could care less if he bats for the other side or not: his conduct is a disgrace to every soldier.

cparker
83
Points
cparker 05/09/09 - 11:28 am
0
0
After 26 years in the

After 26 years in the military, I feel the policy is right.. Soldiers often can not choose a room mate. Even when deployed they each are issued half a tent, so who will accept being made to share a tent with a homosexual? The Army still has large open bay showers, who wants to take off their clothes in the presence of an openly spoken homosexual? That's the problem in a nutshell. The military is truly a man's, man's, man's type of environment that becomes uncontrolled and chaotic under such circumstances. The morale of the Army is far more important than one's sexual desires. The psychological image the Army portrays to the enemy will not be that of homosexuals, it will be the strong 6' tall infantry soldiers & Army Rangers. Openly gay people will have huge problems living under military conditions. There is a strange parts of me that believes gay soldiers are better protected by this policy than being discriminated against.

JackBootedThug
0
Points
JackBootedThug 05/09/09 - 01:20 pm
0
0
Let the admitted homosexuals

Let the admitted homosexuals stay in the service and put them with them women. That will take away the problem of sexual tension. I wonder if the women would be comfortable with that? If that won't work then we are right back where we started.

mad_max
0
Points
mad_max 05/09/09 - 01:35 pm
0
0
Women are not allowed in the

Women are not allowed in the combat arms units, and for good reason. They are not allowed to share the same sleeping quarters or showers either. Why would the public assume that normal young american males would want some effeminate homo in the shower or the foxhole with him? There are reasons for the current rules and I think they are already too lenient. If you must force homosexuals on the military then you need to let the military put them all in one Fruitcake Brigade. I do not want to shower with some guy who is admiring my butt...secretly or openly. If you happen to think that is an okay situation then you might as well send your daughter on into the shower with me too. I promise I won't touch....just look a lot.

Just My Opinion
5918
Points
Just My Opinion 05/09/09 - 05:34 pm
0
0
MarathonGirl, I think you are

MarathonGirl, I think you are great! You spoke my mind about all this. I have to say, I never thought about the pedophile angle, and it's totally true and appropriate. Now, mad max...you put it pretty much have an "in your face" approach to it, but I have to agree with you also! Now, I don't believe that homosexuals are always in a predatory-mode, where they are sizing up who is next for them to...well, whatever it is they do, but I do think that it is "natural" for a homosexual to size up someone who they are showering or bunking next to.

rodericksmith
10
Points
rodericksmith 05/09/09 - 05:36 pm
0
0
who wants to be stuck in a

who wants to be stuck in a fox hole with a flamer NOT ME

JohnQPublic
5
Points
JohnQPublic 05/09/09 - 07:24 pm
0
0
Like hetero men aren't always

Like hetero men aren't always sizing up their next potential conquest.... give me a break, Just My Opinion...and I'd rather be stuck in a fox hole with a "flamer" than a hetero who may be a coward. You folks are homophobic and haven't got a clue.

JohnQPublic
5
Points
JohnQPublic 05/09/09 - 07:28 pm
0
0
Mad Max who ever told you

Mad Max who ever told you that you had a butt to be admired anyway? Send in your daughter? Sounds like some pedophile tendencies.

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