'Design' is not all that intelligent

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Tom Zwemer's Intelligent Design letter of Feb. 20 ("How can you reject Intelligent Design?") makes the common uneducated assumption that hereditary modification occurs through trial and error. It does not.

Evolution is driven by successful reproduction. There is no need for a "designer." He talks of the human eye. There is a clear transitional path from rudimentary light-sensitive spots on worms all the way to the current iteration of the eye.

He talks of "testability." Here's a test of Intelligent Design. If the presumed benevolent, omniscient "designer" is intelligent, then his designs should be superior. The "design" of the human back and foot look exactly as though they evolved from earlier mammals as supported by the fossil record. The back and foot are, on the other hand, horrendously inefficient and troublesome structures if the "intelligent designer" made them so.

So we either have a natural, easy-to-follow evolutionary process, or a cruel, incompetent "designer."

Johnnie Poole

Augusta

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John_the_Skeptic
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John_the_Skeptic 02/21/09 - 01:33 pm
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Actually soldout, you're

Actually soldout, you're taking a big risk by disregarding Zeus. He has lightning bolts forged by Hephaestus, and he isn't shy about hurling them.

If I were you, I'd keep my head down.

brimisjoshan
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 01:35 pm
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Soldout, John is just having

Soldout, John is just having fun with you. He don't believe in Zeus

jedex6
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jedex6 02/21/09 - 02:10 pm
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Ah - the same old tired

Ah - the same old tired debate between delusional Jesus freaks who know nothing except how to believe in imagination and elaborate fantasies in place of scientific evidence, people who think they know it all but acutually have just a few bits of knowledge and then jumble them all up into a word salad which is an absolute of waste of time to hash through, and scientific materialists who at least have the common sense to know this debate is a laugh riot and not to be taken seriously. It is all a futile waste brought on by the scourge of Christians who arrogantly think they, and only they, possess the truth. They don't. Unless you believe in fairy dust, in which case they do.

jedex6
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jedex6 02/21/09 - 02:10 pm
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Ah - the same old tired

Ah - the same old tired debate between delusional Jesus freaks who know nothing except how to believe in imagination and elaborate fantasies in place of scientific evidence, people who think they know it all but acutually have just a few bits of knowledge and then jumble them all up into a word salad which is an absolute of waste of time to hash through, and scientific materialists who at least have the common sense to know this debate is a laugh riot and not to be taken seriously. It is all a futile waste brought on by the scourge of Christians who arrogantly think they, and only they, possess the truth. They don't. Unless you believe in fairy dust, in which case they do.

brimisjoshan
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 02:46 pm
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jed, you are right about one

jed, you are right about one thing we do possess the truth only us. Jesus said, "I am the truth" and since we have his spirit in us then yes we have the truth. Thanks!

dashiel
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dashiel 02/21/09 - 03:04 pm
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Why, Biz, thgough you

Why, Biz, thgough you fearlessly risk the flames of hell, do you get all coy over a little erectile tissue? I think God has gone into journalism if this week's any indication. A chimp downs a xanax and a sip o' Cisco, rips off the foolish face of a woman who taunts him with an Elmo doll, then, instead of running for mayor of DC, gets himself ventilated by the police. A cartoonist does a funny cartoon about the dead chimp and Al Sharpton squalls. Intelligent emeffing design?! How about intelligent anything?! Beam my f a up.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 03:21 pm
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Dashiel, That deserves an

Dashiel, That deserves an Amen. Make it so number One. Doesn't it become obvious I'm not from this planet. "Klaatu barada nikto"

PaulBurnett
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PaulBurnett 02/21/09 - 04:01 pm
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Brimisjoshan wrote: "All

Brimisjoshan wrote: "All these comments give me a picture of an ant looking up at man and shaking his fist saying you don't exist..."

Most (not all) of these comments give me a picture of the opening sequence of the movie "2001, A Space Odyssey" - ignorant pre-human savages brandishing their primitive bone weapons in the face of technology they can't understand. They are obviously proud of their ignorance, and count it as a virtue.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 04:05 pm
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Another great movie Paul. The

Another great movie Paul. The Day the Earth Stood Still, A Space Odyssey. One more and we can have a triple feature. I like butter on my popcorn. Perhaps that Ben Stein move-what ever the heck it is called. LOL. Oh yeah, "DUUUUUH". Stein should stay in his genre politics.

imdstuf
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imdstuf 02/21/09 - 04:09 pm
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Give it up people, the letter

Give it up people, the letter is dead on. Either there is no intelligent design, or the design is not so intelligent because the designs have advanced from what "the maker" made them to be.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 05:50 pm
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Well it has been 200 years

Well it has been 200 years since Darwin's birth and 150 years since he published Origins. Happy birthday!! Lets have a party. Does it not seem fitting that just this week some ape goes ape. 150 years and the theory has been modified, improved, and tested ad infinitum and still it keeps on taking a lickin and tickin. He's the man. I checked on the Highwire scientific search engine and there are about 420,000 peer-reviewed publications supporting evolution as fact and theory. Gravity generated about 90,000. Theory of relativity about 10,000 and quantum mechanics about 8000. But this is just one scientific search engine and likely not comprehensive. So I suggest you get reading to keep up.

brimisjoshan
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 06:04 pm
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PaulBurnett, you are not too

PaulBurnett, you are not too far off. I do count it as virtue but what you call ignorance I call truth. I have mixed emotions. On one side I can't wait for God to put these so called "intelligent" "Higher evolved intellectuals" to shame. But at the same time I grieve that so many of them will experience Hell and torment. I get no joy in being right if people have to experience misery.

PaulBurnett
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PaulBurnett 02/21/09 - 08:03 pm
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Brimisjoshan wrote: "I grieve

Brimisjoshan wrote: "I grieve that so many of them will experience Hell and torment."

...after death, one supposes...without a body, without pain receptors, without a nervous system, without a brain. Using the language of science, can you describe WHAT will be "experiencing" torment? And is Hell intelligently designed? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 08:50 pm
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Paul you didn't read Dante's

Paul you didn't read Dante's "Divine Comedy" or Milton's "Paradise Lost", Blake's "Heaven and Hell". How about Sartre's "No Exit". Jog my memory there is more. Well Sartre had it. Look around at the people posting-this is hell.LOL

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 08:51 pm
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How could people of all the

How could people of all the creatures on earth be able to distinquish anything intelligent.

jedex6
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jedex6 02/21/09 - 08:58 pm
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brimisjoshan, you are so

brimisjoshan, you are so arrogant, to think that you are privy to the truth and others, except for your completely deluded brethren, are all going to some place in your imagination that you call hell. Don't you know that it was all just made up nonsense? If you know anything about the bible, you would know that Jesus never actually uttered the words that the Gospel writers put in his mouth. There were no eyewitnesses, and the first Gospel, was written some thirty to fifty years after the crucifixtion. That Jesus message was profound is not disputed. But the stories in the Gospels were written for a Jewish audience who were familier with the ancient Scriptures. They caught the symbolism the writers used to impress upon them Jesus importance. Christians, centuries later, literalized the Gospel stories. That is a fact that no real theologians dispute. It is only the ignorant fundamentalists like yourself who don't get it. The key here is "symbolism". I can accept that it is not "literally" true and it does not detract the meaning of Jesus' for me. That is the interpretation that works for me, and frankly, I find it far more convincing than to think that virgins concieve and the rest.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 09:19 pm
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"you are so arrogant, to

"you are so arrogant, to think that you are privy to the truth and others, except for your completely deluded brethren, are all going to some place in your imagination that you call hell". Jedex wouldn't the same argument apply to you too. I mean think about it dude. I can tell from your loving tone you really grasp the Jesus concept of tolerance, love, peace, giving, respect, and civility. Basically you think it all crap, you have no tolerance for any other beliefs, and you tend to be insulting. Well I don't have a problem with that-whatever floats your boat. But I don't think I'd call you a righteous dude. LOL. America is great-such a melting pot of beliefs and ideas. Everyone can express their views in freedom without retribution-hey it is even in the Constitution. One thing I do agree there is plenty of intentional symbolism within the bible. I also agree some people have a difficult time discerning which part is symbolims and which isn't. See we can be friends.

Chuchi
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Chuchi 02/21/09 - 10:08 pm
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Well, some may call those who

Well, some may call those who don't agree with them "ignorant," but I think it is more virtuous to disagree with someone and remain civil and courteous to that person in spite of a difference of opinion. Calling someone "ignorant" or "intellectually dishonest" is not going to help a person's argument or win anyone to that person's side. Flies are more attracted to honey than vinegar.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 10:15 pm
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"The positive side is that

"The positive side is that religion, I believe, in its highest and purest form, calls us to respect the innate dignity of every human being and help them, and help them become all that they can be." John Spong. Spong believes in God, prays everyday, but basically believes the scripture symbolic and not literal but his argument is that we should follow the tenets of Christ-who is also believes. Jedex you should read Spong and practice what he preaches. His intent seems noble, although many critics say misguided. He does seem a compassionate sort towards women, homosexuals, and tries to break down the barriers of prejudice. But he blames religion for some of this-not unjustly, but he forgets it is the people and not Christ that instigated such hatred and bigotry. Every religion has its nutcases whose actions seem contrary to their faith-just like Islam. But I would argue that Christ and Spong wouldn't approve of your insults and uncivil attitude. But hey I've been guilty too and I generally try to apologize for my errors. So I apologize to you if I have offended you.

Chuchi
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Chuchi 02/21/09 - 10:18 pm
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There are also quite a few

There are also quite a few scientifically literate folks who not only know how to use a computer (and do it very well) but are intellectually quite honest. There are scientists and other intellectuals who are supporters of intelligent design or creationism and they do not hate or deny science at all. They just don't believe that evolutionary theory has all the answers. I think supporters of Intelligent Design mostly believe that although there are design flaws in things, they recognize that everything has a design and a design demands a designer. They believe that design and order cannot emerge by itself from chaos. ID proponents don't always name the designer "God"; but they do think there has to be a Grand Designer somewhere out there. And creationists believe almost the same way, except that they do name the Grand Designer "God." And they say that everything was designed to be perfect until the fall of man at the Garden of Eden, when man sinned and evil entered the perfect world and corrupted the perfect designs God had made. Evolution, ID and creationism --- none are the enemy of science. A lack of courteous discourse on the subject creates the acrimony, not the subject itself.

Chuchi
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Chuchi 02/21/09 - 10:25 pm
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Bizarro: you have made some

Bizarro: you have made some good points in your 10:15 post. Unless a particular religion is pretty radical most faiths teach their followers to love and respect one another. If religious people behave badly it is because of their lack of adherence to the teachings of their religion and not necessarily the religion itself. It does set a bad example for others, though; tends to create scandal. But if you are your own "god," as it were, then good and evil become a matter of personal taste and preference.

jedex6
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jedex6 02/23/09 - 12:36 am
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ID and creationism are most

ID and creationism are most certainly the enemies of science, because they are cartoon scienences. There is no room for courteous discourse because there is nothing that ID or creationism have to say. They are not scientific, they are religious. You have your little myths about the Garden of Eden to keep you comfy. Bible stories are not science. They are myths. Get it? Sceince. Look it up. Myth. Stories invented by pre-scientific societies to explain natural phenoma. We no longer live in a pre-scientific age. Wake up.

psholder
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psholder 03/02/09 - 11:41 am
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The problem is that RELIGIOUS

The problem is that RELIGIOUS believers CANNOT accept what evolutionists try to teach them. They will get punished by their merciful God if they reject the Bible's account of why humans are here. It amazes me that FEAR will guide people's beliefs, when there is NO reason to FEAR a God or his punishment. Lose your FEAR to be reasonable, logical, and rational. Thinking that a god will punish you based on your beliefs, will never allow you to think unbiasedly!

psholder
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psholder 03/02/09 - 01:31 pm
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What's also funny is that

What's also funny is that religious believers LOVE to compare non-life to life in order to make their logic look correct. AGAIN, all to avoid punishment. The guy in the article compares a house to humans and asks, 'How could a house evolve in a billions of years." The problem is that a HOUSE can't evolve. We have no evidence it does. So, it is ridiculous to compare houses to humans or houses to life. HOUSES don't contain life. GET IT?
They also love to say that this earth has design, therefore it needs a designer. While this may be true, all the design in the world gives you clue as to WHO or WHAT the designer is. The designer in diamond formation is: time, elements, heat and pressure. NOT GOD!

psholder
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psholder 03/02/09 - 01:33 pm
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What's also funny is that

What's also funny is that religious believers LOVE to compare non-life to life in order to make their logic look correct. AGAIN, all to avoid punishment. The guy in the article compares a house to humans and asks, 'How could a house evolve in a billions of years." The problem is that a HOUSE can't evolve. We have no evidence it does. So, it is ridiculous to compare houses to humans or houses to life. HOUSES don't contain life. GET IT?
They also love to say that this earth has design, therefore it needs a designer. While this may be true, all the design in the world gives you clue as to WHO or WHAT the designer is. The designer in diamond formation is: time, elements, heat and pressure. NOT GOD!

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