'Design' is not all that intelligent

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Tom Zwemer's Intelligent Design letter of Feb. 20 ("How can you reject Intelligent Design?") makes the common uneducated assumption that hereditary modification occurs through trial and error. It does not.

Evolution is driven by successful reproduction. There is no need for a "designer." He talks of the human eye. There is a clear transitional path from rudimentary light-sensitive spots on worms all the way to the current iteration of the eye.

He talks of "testability." Here's a test of Intelligent Design. If the presumed benevolent, omniscient "designer" is intelligent, then his designs should be superior. The "design" of the human back and foot look exactly as though they evolved from earlier mammals as supported by the fossil record. The back and foot are, on the other hand, horrendously inefficient and troublesome structures if the "intelligent designer" made them so.

So we either have a natural, easy-to-follow evolutionary process, or a cruel, incompetent "designer."

Johnnie Poole

Augusta

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GGpap
528
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GGpap 02/21/09 - 02:33 am
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Here we go again, and after

Here we go again, and after all of the pros and cons have been written, whether intelligent or not, nothing offered by either side will be accepted by the other. Bizarro said it best yesterday, the opinion page is nothing more than an invitation to engage in "Civil war..." and yes, that IS an oxymoron (add emphasis to the last five letters)! I'll save my powder, what little I have, until a more worthwhile issue appears in the AC. GGpap

elliottness
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elliottness 02/21/09 - 06:20 am
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since you're so smart johnnie

since you're so smart johnnie how many humans have you produced in your lab under the house?if we evolved from earlier mammals then who designed the mammals?so everything just happened millions of years ago?all on it's on?the bible is a book of faith,believe it or not, that's your choice.just think if everyone was perfect like you say they should be, what a boring world this would be.your judgment day is coming, are you ready?who cares?i guess the incompetent designer hasn't thought that far ahead like you have,johnnie.what a fool you are.

patriciathomas
44
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patriciathomas 02/21/09 - 07:48 am
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Many don't believe in God.

Many don't believe in God. Free will was one of his gifts.

Roadkill
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Roadkill 02/21/09 - 08:25 am
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Johnnie, I still want to know

Johnnie, I still want to know why monkeys still exist???

JesusIsComing
9
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JesusIsComing 02/21/09 - 08:50 am
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Roadkill, without monkies how

Roadkill, without monkies how would we get all these letters to the editor?

dashiel
177
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dashiel 02/21/09 - 10:03 am
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Pierre Cardin is an

Pierre Cardin is an intelligent designer.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 10:57 am
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How foolish. Johnnie,

How foolish. Johnnie, professing himself to be wiser than God makes himself a fool. Unless he turns to God, this will be his future. As some point he will die. His soul, which he thinks no longer exists, does exist and he is stands before God that he so fervently denied ever existed. He is dumbfounded and does not know what to say. But because he believe he is so smart he begins to explain to God all the mistakes he made in his design. He explains that certainly he should be allowed into heaven because lets face it God its really all your fault anyway. Then God speaks and explains that it is not his intellect that allows you into heaven. Rather, He says depart from me, not because you believed in evolution, but because He never knew you. Johnnie, I revealed myself to you by my son Jesus and you rejected him. Therefore, I reject you. In a moment his soul is sent into hell. He is alone yet others are there. Fire burns through his soul. And all he is left with is all the arguments he used for why God does not exist. Christians, let us pray for Johnnie and others so that they may turn to Jesus and never experience that hell.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 11:14 am
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Glad I could provide you

Glad I could provide you entertainment eel so laugh and laugh hard because you will not be laughing on the day of judgment.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 11:24 am
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The appendix is considered an

The appendix is considered an evolutionarily vestigial organ so it did have a purpose at one time, as the 2500 inactive olfactory receptor genes found in the human genome. So it isn't a case of poor design (if that is the argument) because it once was useful just it isn't now (so it had a "design" [I find that word so misleading] just it lost the need). Vestigial structures support evolution so arguments contrary shoot evolution. Evolution by natural selection is nature "designing" nature. Sickle cell anemia's need was protective to malaria, but without malaria it is a hazard. Obviously God nor evolution aren't in the business of perfection, but both profess some degree of "design" if that is the weasel word of choice. But doesn't the bible basically make the same argument-that man nor nature are perfect. Besides what is "perfect" it just has to function for use it doesn't have to be pretty. hee,hee,hee. Also one must remember evolution isn't random so if it isn't random then it has order, and models of evolution add the constraint of "predictability". All theories have to produce "predictive" models, least they are crummy theories. Natural selection is nature "designing" nature.

brimisjoshan
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 11:34 am
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Bizzarro, you sound like a

Bizzarro, you sound like a professor at one of our liberal colleges.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:05 pm
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I would be hard pressed to

I would be hard pressed to classify any university or college in Georgia-liberal!!! Perhaps there are some liberal faculty but likely just as many conservative.

mgroothand
5
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mgroothand 02/21/09 - 12:30 pm
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Nipples on a man, now I ask

Nipples on a man, now I ask you, what possible use have they?

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:39 pm
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I pierced mine. Just kiddin.

I pierced mine. Just kiddin. Some men lactate when being treated for prostate cancer. Isn't that bizarre.

dashiel
177
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dashiel 02/21/09 - 12:43 pm
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Surely you jest, mgrowahand!

Surely you jest, mgrowahand!

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:46 pm
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Wow, dashiel now you've

Wow, dashiel now you've engaged my imagination and my mind gambols with exotic visions of sexuality. Your husband is a lucky man. hee,hee,hee.

PaulBurnett
0
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PaulBurnett 02/21/09 - 12:48 pm
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It continues to amaze me that

It continues to amaze me that there are so many scientifically illiterate folks (supporters of the ignorance of intelligent design creationism) who know how to use a computer! In the name of consistency and intellectual honesty, creationists should not be using the products of the science they so obviously hate and deny.

One of my favorite proofs of evolution (which no creationist can disprove) is the recurrent laryngeal nerve, which in all mammals loops around the aorta in order to get from the brain to the larynx. In the giraffe, this nerve is thus about fifteen feet long, whereas the larynx is about one foot from the brain. This amazingly incompetent and unintelligent "design" feature makes the animal more susceptible to injury. The explanation, of course, goes back to our very distant ancestors who were fish - about 300 million years ago - where the vagus nerve passed around the sixth gill arch, which has evolved into the aorta.

I have yet to hear a credible creationist explanation for this.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:50 pm
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I like brimishoshan's post.

I like brimishoshan's post. I've been called bizarre, insane, stupid, funny, a neocon, but never a liberal. I guess as long as I am a little of each I'm pretty normal. I guess after this last post we can add pervert.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:53 pm
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Paul the sixth arch gives

Paul the sixth arch gives rise to the pulmonary artery, the fourth arch the aorta. The third arch the brachiocephalic. But your point is still well taken-the pharyngeal arch system and arterial plan is conserved and during development all form bilaterally just some regress during development. It is exactly the reason the ole misconception that ontogeny (development) recapitulates phylogeny (evolutionary history) was once proposed. Snakes from limb buds that regress, eyeless moles (and other eyeless creatures) initially have eyes that regress, etc.

teharper428
2
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teharper428 02/21/09 - 12:56 pm
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Since when is believing

Since when is believing creationism a prerequisite for going to heaven?

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 12:58 pm
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Nailed it harper!!! Good

Nailed it harper!!! Good posit.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 01:06 pm
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All this higher thinking is

All this higher thinking is overwhelming...All these comments give me a picture of an ant looking up at man and shaking his fist saying you don't exist until his foot stomps him. LOL

Have a good day people. Glad I could amuse you.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 01:11 pm
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I don't think ID is ignorant

I don't think ID is ignorant so much as misinformed. The notion of "design" is that of evolution too, because it isn't random. Natural selection is the process which selects those organisms that best survive and reproduce, therefore designs by ecological and environmental interactions that influence survival and reproduction. But you can design in steps like with eye evolution, and the argument that it has to be whole at one time is a misinformed one. The difference is what or who designs. Stickleback fish in salt water are "designed" to have fierce jaws and thick protective lateral plate to protect against the predators (who). In fresh water, where the predator pressure is much less and perhaps less salt, they lose the lateral plates and fierce jaws. These traits are regulated by a gene pathway. Now if a pop of freshwater is introduced into saltwater they slowly and progressively change jaws and produce lateral plates (one, then two, etc). The genes responsible have been characterized. Any heritable change in traits in succesive generations through time is evolution-speciation can be a by product of this evolution but isn't a neccessity.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 02/21/09 - 01:38 pm
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Well the greatest evidence

Well the greatest evidence for the poor design of man isn't the appendix but this notion of logic, reason, and intellect. Obviously God wouldn't design such an illogical, unreasonable, unintelligent creature. Only natue could do that. ROTFLMAO!!!

John_the_Skeptic
0
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John_the_Skeptic 02/21/09 - 02:19 pm
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Hey Brimisjoshan, you'd

Hey Brimisjoshan, you'd better get right with the true King of the Gods, Zeus. You'd better get busy sacrificing some goats to him. Otherwise, when you die and you're being ferried across the River Styx, you'll really regret it.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 02:21 pm
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you're funny. LOL

you're funny. LOL

soldout
1287
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soldout 02/21/09 - 02:23 pm
0
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It is simple; believe and

It is simple; believe and receive or doubt and do without. Once someone chooses a relationship with Jesus Christ they don't tend to change their mind. God gives us a free will which allows us to choose heaven or hell. Those who have chosen hell tend to be angry and always calling people names. Those who have chosen heaven seem to be a peace and have joy which beats happiness by a long shot. Everyone will get the correct answer to this question about evolution and some will be glad and some will be sad. The Christian is missing out on nothing and the non-Christian is the one taking all the risk. There are very few on the fence anymore and things are more black and white now which is good. God prefers us hot or cold and not luke warm. Only the truth upsets folks.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 02:30 pm
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soldout, you are exactly

soldout, you are exactly right. Proverbs tells us that trying to debate with the non-believer is futile because they cannot understand spiritual things. All I know is that Jesus has given me a happiness that nothing else has. If that makes me be considered ignorant or stupid then I am as loony as can be, and loving every minute of it.

John_the_Skeptic
0
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John_the_Skeptic 02/21/09 - 02:33 pm
0
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Actually soldout, you're

Actually soldout, you're taking a big risk by disregarding Zeus. He has lightning bolts forged by Hephaestus, and he isn't shy about hurling them.

If I were you, I'd keep my head down.

brimisjoshan
2
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brimisjoshan 02/21/09 - 02:35 pm
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Soldout, John is just having

Soldout, John is just having fun with you. He don't believe in Zeus

jedex6
20
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jedex6 02/21/09 - 03:10 pm
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Ah - the same old tired

Ah - the same old tired debate between delusional Jesus freaks who know nothing except how to believe in imagination and elaborate fantasies in place of scientific evidence, people who think they know it all but acutually have just a few bits of knowledge and then jumble them all up into a word salad which is an absolute of waste of time to hash through, and scientific materialists who at least have the common sense to know this debate is a laugh riot and not to be taken seriously. It is all a futile waste brought on by the scourge of Christians who arrogantly think they, and only they, possess the truth. They don't. Unless you believe in fairy dust, in which case they do.

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