Revisit science fair requirement

I'm curious to what the students with no computers do now? I know that almost every house has one but some still don't. My son brings home school work constantly that requires a computer and printer. There is no way he could do the work at school because he wouldn't have the time. I have never agreed with mandatory science projects. I remember some of the projects from high school and there was no way some of the students did the work on their own. Some just get to confused about what exactly it is the teacher wants. It becomes more about a grade than the competition it was designed to be. I know they are trying to get the kids pumped about Science but attaching a grade to something that started out as a competition is stupid. Somes kids are just not interested in Science and forcing them to do a Science Fair Project only makes it worse. What worked for my children were the group and classroom projects (they were voluntary too).

Ms. Del Valle, welcome to the world of science today. It's more about presenting your ideas than any actual science. Want to know about science in your backyard? This is what's going on, that our kids will be learning about science in real life -- http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35580 -- Before WWII there were very few peer-reviewed papers submitted to journals, as it wasn't required, let alone not as stressed. After WWII you can't even be tenured without a yearly QUOTA of papers. This is why the stress is on presentation of ideas, as scientists now are suppose to be salemen of theories. Real science is gone, no longer observational evidence trumps all, just push mathematical equations and theoretical formulas, and it funds 101 university labs, and they're just happy. No, your kid doesn't need a MS Powerpoint presentation to do science (I'm a computer geek for almost 30 years -- and I don't have MS Powerpoint -- I have over 100 programs installed, but not Powerpoint!), your kid needs to do actual science at their level and curiosity, as your kid isn't a science project itself!

Furthermore, I'm curious: who approved of this science fair project locally? Is it now a federal level standard? State? Some NEA requirement? Something is fishy that it requires even software to complete (if they want it to be a computing science project make it so, but don't masquerade it as a "softer" science project). Doesn't even read like any real experimentation is going on, "variables" are something you have in computer programming and graphics; mathematics and theoretical sciences. Hmmmm.....

Is power point a required subject before the science fair? If not, how are the students to even access this complicated program? As far as instructions from the school goes, they're often vague and confusing. Apparently words have different meanings to academe employees than they do in the real world. Maybe the graduation coach concept should be modified to produce an instruction interpreter.

Powerpoint shouldn't be a requirement as it's more suited for the business market for it's presentations (it's not difficult to do, as it's for the DUMB business market. For 6 year-olds the school system is begging parents to design the Powerpoint presentation). For scientists will write their own modeling programs and present that instead. If they want to make it also a computer science project, Flash would've been better, as the kids could learn a skill that can pay them money while still in high school (a lot of 15 year-old budding web developers online. They won't mow lawns anymore, so put them to work making money building websites, instead. They'll go nuts with it on Myspace and Facebook, too). But this is our school system, so expect them to build them for a career working for someone else (despite the future market is people working on their computers AT HOME. It's whiteboards, not Powerpoint then).

Good grief the kids use powerpoint at school all the time. Most kids are more computer literate than adults. You won't attend a lecture at any college or university that doesn't use powerpoint slides-beats the heck out of writing on the board and transparencies. It is called progress-get with it. Science it at its peak now. I use to be able to keep up with multiple fields with ease because progress was slow and many questions hadn't developed the biotechnology to address. Now no one can keep up with the almost exponential growth in knowledge. Every kid in America has to be science and math literate-whether they are interested or not-if we are to be globally competitive. You don't need powerpoint but if you ever use to type on a typewriter or use plotters to make graphs you appreciate computers. The Science Fair should be methodical as is the scientific method-otherwise you are just mentally masterbating. Kids need to be able to follow organized tasks, ask a interesting question, address the question with the scientific method, then present their findings. Kids should do it not parents. I think class projects would be great to teach and encourage kids to think. Most want to memorize

A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. The science fair should be about how to use the method and why it is important. It allowed man to methodically discover our universe and planet. The content isn't as important as knowing what the method does and how it addesses the acquistion of true knowledge and not myths or voodoo. Personally I think this can be done in the classroom, but parents should be supportive of their kids education instead of bit@hing, whining, and complaining.

My kids have used PowerPoint for school projects so many times, they're utterly blase and bored with it. It's not that complicated...the sort of thing you can learn by doing (they taught themselves). However, the point is well taken about children who don't have access to computers or these programs at home. Teachers need to accommodate them and allow them time in the media center to do their work on available computers. I'm totally against making science fair participation mandatory. It squelches kids' innate interest in science and introduces competition too early in the process. I'm all for the competitive spirit, just not in grade school kids who haven't learned anything yet.

"You won't attend a lecture at any college or university that doesn't use powerpoint slides-beats the heck out of writing on the board and transparencies." ---- Funny thing is you can do more with Flash, and unlike Powerpoint, Flash makes good money for those who can design and script for it. See these ads around here? That's Flash. Show me a Powerpoint ad/banner/website. :)

Adobe Flash is a multimedia program while powerpoint is just a presentation medium so of course Flash does more. Two different purposes. You can add Flash to powerpoint presentations for animations. I love the keychain Flash drives for carrying information. Most middle, high school, and college students use Flash drives to store mobile info for home and school use. A great tool.

The "Science Fair" is not a determination of a childs scientific analytical skills. It is a test of langusge arts and the ability to interpret the APA format used by college students. It would help a little if the students were provided the resources demanded of them, maybe a text book or something like that, or even a hand out by the teachers or a sample of a completed approved project would help.

All these parents who are against doing a science project want their child to graduate and be a success but not have to do any hard work to get the diploma.

I'm not against science projects, I'm against the Science Fair. There's a difference.

The only thing parents should contribute is the backboard. As far as Power Point, it shouldn't be used unless all students have equal access to a computer.

When I was in elementary school the science fair was mandatory, but in high school it was optional (for an extra grade). This was back in the 80's and 90's. I actually got 2nd place in 5th grade for my science project that I did totally on my own.

I remember I won one of our Science Fairs, but it also covered Political Science. I chose poltical cartoons and made a 3D standing cartoon about the Pueblo affair-crisis which was current news then (68' I believe it was) with President Johnson. I went on to compete in the next level but came in second then. I believe my mother still has my ribbons. I was a budding inventor too so she saved my invention plans I kept (labeled top secret LOL, actually some of my ideas came to fruition by others in my lifetime). I remember staying up to 3am working on the 3D cartoon.

I agree that science fair projects should not be mandatory. It does take quite a bit of work on the child's part to follow the directions and conduct the research without some help from a parent. I do not condone a parent DOING the project but occasional help with finding materials or answering questions is part of parenting. Powerpoint is the most used method of presenting material for most elementary, middle and even high school students. Most students learn how to use Powerpoint as early as 2nd or 3rd grade and are very competent in using it by 6th grade. Times are changing. In order to be competitive and keep up with the rest of the world, students have to learn how to use technology.

I don't think it's fair to students that some have access to Power Point and computers at home and others don't. If all students have equal time at a computer at school to do the project, that's one thing. But not all students have the same resources at home. That doesn't seem fair. As I said in an earlier post, if my children asked me to clarify a question, I told them to go check with a classmate, call the teacher or use their resource books or thankfully, their computer. This encouraged both their independence and teamwork. My children were blessed that they had a computer, but it was not something we took for granted. We had a lot of trouble with our computers partly because of where we lived, trying to get a good connection when we had dial up and 6 people in the household that needed the phone and the computer, often at the same time. My children are extremely adept at technology, but we realize we could have very easily been among those that don't have access to computers. It would have had a detrimental effect on their school accomplishments. There is a technological divide among students that is patently unfair to those who don't have at home access to a computer

The parent's role is to provide the basic material and "be there" in a supervisory capacity for safety reasons, since often the children will be working with unfamiliar, sometimes hazardous substances during a project. The parent's role is NOT to answer questions, that defeats the purpose. I would not allow them to be dependent on me for that, it's their project, not mine. The parent is neither classmate, teacher, nor student. I can't imagine a question that my children would need to ask me that they couldn't answer themselves with the proper research techniques and available resources. That's the point, after all.

I can honestly say that I do not know of one colleague of mine who would give an assignment to a student who he/she knew did not have access to a computer at home. Of course students are allowed to use the school's computers and don't forget that familiar place called a public library. Teachers make accommodations all day long for special circumstances. My children have had printer cartridges run dry right before printing papers or heaven forbid, the internet decide to disappear. They have gone to a friend or neighbor's house to print assignments. I'm sorry but parents need to help their children if they have difficulty with homework. Guide them to the right answer and help them be successful if they are unable to solve a problem on their own. Teachers cannot do it all.

You are right. Teachers cannot do it all and shouldn't. Neither can or should parents. There are too many parents (some of them teachers) doing their children's homework for them. I have no problem in guiding a child to the right resource, but be careful you are not "giving them the answer" and cheat them out of learning the process that leads to the answers. That's a fair amount of the point in doing science projects after all. If they can't solve the problem on their own, it is not my place to help them. I'm the parent, not a classmate, resource or teacher. I supervise for their safety's sake, I don't give them answers or solutions to the problems. That is what the scientific process is for and they need to show the work they did to get to their solution. Their work. Not mine.

Wow.

"It does take quite a bit of work on the child's part to follow the directions and conduct the research without some help from a parent." ----- Ah, so the kid no longer picks his own science project, the school dictates what is and isn't science, huh? BTW, Bizarro, no the parents shouldn't even do the backboard -- that's the fun part of the projects for the kids to do themselves. If the parents would stay out of it, the students can have more fun competing against themselves, not other parents.

"Of course students are allowed to use the school's computers and don't forget that familiar place called a public library." ---- Can the kids use the computers after school, as the school day is quite limited to do anything but study in rote; and when was the last time a library computer had MS software installed, other than at most Windows (and considering the budget of this town, it's more likely a *nix or *bsd flavor, instead)? We have kids who's parents are living on SSI and food stamps, how in the world can they even afford MS Office on an eMachine to make their Powerpoint presentation at home??? I don't even have MS Office as I'm not spending the money on it, with upgrades that continue to get more expense by the year (and MS is looking into yearly online licensing -- the moment it goes that route, it's *bsd for me [PC gaming is sucking more each year, so not going to miss having the excuse for MS OS for that, too]). Backwards, folks are going backwards.

"You can add Flash to powerpoint presentations for animations." ---- Actually, you can use Flash to make animations and even videos. Making my HD YouTube video with Swish (much cheaper than Adobe Flash) | PSP 9 (for touchups and object creations) | Sony Vegas for compiling it into a decent video and audio -- all for 50% less than an Adobe Flash program, let alone a full MS Office. For the price of them, I can add one of the best commercial .flv compressors for use on other sites. Our school system is teaching our kids the wrong things -- making them only business ready makes them much dumber and poorer.

Sandy, I suggest you go get an application right away. You apparently know everything there is to know about the subject. With applicants like you, all the problems in education are sure to be eliminated. Btw, you are wrong about the software installed on school computers.