'Haters' are kind, compassionate folks

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Regarding Don Tate's Nov. 19 letter, "Hatred lives long after Obama election": Like-minded and informed people such as myself have had to observe the continued ostracizing of people opposed to "gay marriage" for some time. Most of us who believe that marriage should be solely between a man and a woman are called "haters," as Mr. Tate writes in his letter.

Yet, other than my opposition to gay marriage, Mr. Tate does not know me. He does not know my heart; nor does he know what's in the heart of most people who oppose gay marriage. However, if Mr. Tate took the time to meet some of us, I think he would get an entirely different picture. We are your neighbors, your co-workers, the clerk at the local gas station.

We believe in God and charity toward our fellow man. We are Christians, Jews, Hindus, Muslims and many other religious affiliations. But our great country was not built on our differences but on our common beliefs and our commitment to those belief systems.

When someone or some group goes against a common belief system such as that marriage is between a man and a woman, expect that most will disagree with you. But it is not about hate. The very use of the word "hate" demonstrates the lack of any substantive argument. The labeling of all religious conservatives as racists is absurd. Mr. Tate can neither justify nor defend the statement.

We who disagree with him are individuals first, who also belong to a group with common religious beliefs. For instance, I am a Christian, but I have Jewish friends. Honest disagreement is not a foundation for hatred. Those who see hate at every corner can always find reasons to hate. I guess it makes them feel powerful when they find in their heart that they really do not have a non-hateful reason for their argument.

If Mr. Tate seeks out those he has labeled as haters, he will find something far different. So-called haters would be the first to offer him help should he need it. The "haters" are truly their brother's keeper even if they disagree with you. This is called kindness and compassion. We may disagree with you, but we do not hate you.

Larry Rodgers, Evans

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ThatOne
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ThatOne 12/03/08 - 06:35 am
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I'm pulling a bs flag on this

I'm pulling a bs flag on this guy, what a loaded crock of philosophical, warm fuzzy sounding bs...Anyone who tells you they like you and then goes on to tell you the race, religion, or sexual orientation of their friends is a person full of it... And what the hell is a religious conservative? I mean does he/she conservatively believe in God, or conservatively pray? Matter of fact, find me the bibical scripture that addresses religous conservatives and get back with me... Either your a christian or you're not, it's that plain, so stop trying to redefine what a christian is or give chritianity levels like a club or social organization.

christian134
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christian134 12/03/08 - 07:19 am
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Larry Rodgers you sound like

Larry Rodgers you sound like some of those "Reverends" who seek to gloss over sin as "a little here and a little there" will not hurt you...Please Christianity is Christianity...It is not filled with shadows but is very forthright...You either believe or you don't...You either condone sin or you don't...You can't have it both ways..."ThatOne" pretty well summed it up for you don't you think....

HotFoot
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HotFoot 12/03/08 - 07:47 am
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Mr. Rodgers, you don't like

Mr. Rodgers, you don't like gay marriage, don't marry a man. It's really that simple. Christian134, I don't think you really got what "ThatOne" was trying to say. But anyway, a black and white view of the world ill-prepares a person to function and is a sign of fundamental immaturity. Good thing you're focused on the next world!

christian134
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christian134 12/03/08 - 07:55 am
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Probably not

Probably not midwestertransplant but I will hold to my beliefs...I am most happy to be, in a world, of fundamental immaturity if it allows me to prepare for the next world...At least my inner being is prepared no matter what the day or night holds...:-)"ThatOne" doesn't share my beliefs but when he inadvertently shouted out what it means to be a Christian he/she was right on target...

JesusIsComing
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JesusIsComing 12/03/08 - 08:49 am
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What letter are you reading,

What letter are you reading, ThatOne? A "religious conservative" is a person who is religious (they hold to a religion) AND is conservative in their politics. Of all the letters to criticize for "redefining" Christianity - this one certainly does not deserve such vitriol. Larry Rodgers eloquently adddressed the accusation of a nother letter writer that accused him and his ilk of "hating" because they disagreed with another's view. The "religious conservatives" he mentioned were people of all faiths. Most who adhere to a religion cannot support homosexual marriage due to conflicts with scriptures and teachings. Conservatives cannot support homosexual marriage because it turns upside down the traditional meaning of marriage. I think your real problem is that a conservative Christian made a point in a logical, kind, and gentle way and that does not fit your stereotype.

DonH
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DonH 12/03/08 - 09:38 am
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I think we need to modify the

I think we need to modify the Pledge of Allegiance to accomodate the Gays. Eliminate the part that says, "...one nation, under God, indivisible..." It seems to be the trend these days to reduce everything down to nothing to accomodate no one!

carcraft
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 09:47 am
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Two to five percent of the

Two to five percent of the population wants to redefine words and cultural norms, with out thought about what problems my result. Probably 60% won't go along with the so agenda this 2 to 5% seek to demonize those who object. Hence Mr. Tate feels free to label people as bigots, haters, etc Sorry Don, it wohn't work.

Bizarro
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Bizarro 12/03/08 - 09:55 am
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What is really interesting is

What is really interesting is not so much people will disagree about a topic such as gay marriage, but those who oppose each others opinions feel the need to demonize the other to justify their own opinion. Sad really. You can disagree with gay marriage on sociological and biological grounds as well as theological. But the point is people "see" things differently and have differing opinions. I always suggest people tout the merits of their own opinions rather than create straw man arguments or use ad hominems as an argument.

soldout
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soldout 12/03/08 - 10:04 am
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Good letter Larry. The lost

Good letter Larry. The lost folks will always be name callers and un-happy. If you love God you will love people. If you hate God you will hate people and seem angry most of the time. The Christians have always been hated because they have a peace and joy that nothing in the world can offer. People are never upset over lies but the truth is upsetting and always causes name calling.

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 11:04 am
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Am I missing something here?
Unpublished

Am I missing something here? With this country coming apart at the seams on a myriad of levels, gay marriage is seen as a major issue? The standard line is that gay marriage threatens "the sanctity of marriage," because - AS WE ALL KNOW - divorce, cheating, incest, and domestic violence DON'T. I believe the only threat gay marriage poses is that it may change the content of country music forever. (ref: Behind The Eight Bawl, Ed Naha, Nov. 3, 2008)

patriciathomas
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patriciathomas 12/03/08 - 11:20 am
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When the homosexuals changed

When the homosexuals changed the meaning of the word gay from "happy and joyous" to "homosexual", it was confusing to most and few bothered to object. When the politically correct in the media bought into the fashionable change, the word had a new definition. Now that the homosexual community wants to change the meaning of the word marriage, people are inclined to not only disagree, but object. Civil unions are legal and binding and imply a joining in a manner other then marriage. Because one wishes to NOT have the meaning of a word changed doesn't make the person a hater.

patriciathomas
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patriciathomas 12/03/08 - 11:25 am
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fd, this isn't the one

fd, this isn't the one question that will solve the worlds problems and bring eternal peace, but then, no question is. This is an issue, not THE issue or the major issue, but it is part of society. Just as many seem to promote the issue, many don't. Commenting on it in this manner is just that....a comment. The world won't change or even slow down as a result. Relax. Country music will do just fine.

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 11:53 am
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Lol, PT, I agree. Just
Unpublished

Lol, PT, I agree. Just thought you'd enjoy that example of fine writing as much as I did. Wish I could do as well, regardless of topic.

carcraft
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 12:28 pm
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fd1962- How will you redefine

fd1962- How will you redefine marriage? Will it be one man and one women or one man and one man or one women and one women? What happens when the muslims and fundamentalists Mormons say they want polygamy? It is thier "right" and under religous freedom they have that right! What if a man is married and tells his wife he wants to be married to her and marry another man, can he? Where does this end and who pays the cost? Gays that have been married in other states can't get divorces in the state they now reside in because their current state of residence doesn't recognize gay unions. Our society is already screwed without adding more layers of controversy and conflict.

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 01:07 pm
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Carcraft, for the life of me,
Unpublished

Carcraft, for the life of me, I can't see how a man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman threatens my marriage... unless they move next door and play loud music at 2AM, or let their dogs poop on my front lawn, or get drunk and beat the crap out of each other and toss beer bottles around at all hours. You know, stuff that gay couples might do that heterosexual couples would never dream of. I mean, look at all those gay couples on "Cops" week after week. Uh. Oh. Never mind. (op.cite: Ed Naha, 11/3/08)

SusieQ
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SusieQ 12/03/08 - 01:39 pm
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I know people that live the

I know people that live the same sex togetherness, even though I don't believe this is political correct it is their life. I have found them to be willing to help whenever asked. Why don't we just let them be? Most are working and paying their share of taxes and depending on the rest to support them!!! SusieQ

ForHim
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ForHim 12/03/08 - 01:43 pm
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To be a Christian is the

To be a Christian is the heart and soul of who you are .. what you base your beliefs and decisions on. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is who He says He is and follows His teachings and tries to emulate Him as much as possible. A Christian is also someone who sins on a daily basis because they are human and cannot help themselves. The difference in a Christian and non-Christian is that non-Christians tend to try to validate or justify their sin. A true Christian will admit to their sin, ask for forgiveness and try not to do again. Also, everyone who says they are a Christian is not always a Christian. Mr. Rodgers does not appear to sugar coat anything in my view and I fully agree with his opinion. We should love all people regardless of their flaws .. that is what a Christian should do and remember above all else that we are no better than the person we sit or stand next to. We all sin. But we should NEVER accept sin as being OK .. no matter if it is practicing homosexuality, lying, cheating, killing, stealing, gossiping or any other sin. Sin is sin ... period. Merry Christmas everybody.

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 02:19 pm
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ForHim, maybe in a perfect
Unpublished

ForHim, maybe in a perfect world... It's pretty clear that the definition of marriage being between a man and a woman is a religious one. Period. Gay marriage threatens people's religious beliefs. That's saying a lot. There are a lot of folks who believe the Bible word for word...when it suits them. People who are Bible literalists tend to pick and choose their moral instruction from the Book as if they were at a salad bar. What constitutes "sin" is also up for interpretation. It wasn't a bleeding-heart liberal, for instance, who changed the Biblical commandment translation from "Thou shalt not kill" to "Thou shalt not murder." It was someone who realized that, Holy Crap!, that "kill" stuff includes religious-fueled warfare! It's about religion. It's about denying people equal rights. It has nothing to do with government. It has nothing to do with law, thank you.

FallingLeaves
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FallingLeaves 12/03/08 - 03:07 pm
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Excellent letter, Larry

Excellent letter, Larry Rodgers.

carcraft
34943
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 03:26 pm
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fd1962- Ok for two men to

fd1962- Ok for two men to marry, then what about two men and a women marrying? It won't hurt you will it? Well then what about Mohamed and having 4 wives? Doesn't hurt marriage or you does it? Then young Joseph Smith and his twelve wives, OK with you? How are you going to define marriage and how do you limit marriage to your definition? My definition and the dictionaries definition and most state governments and many state constitutions define marriage as between one man and one women, why not stick with that? Your rights are violated? What about young Mr. Smith and Mohamed, you going to deny them their rights? Can I marry my dog? Who says, won't hurt you or your marriage will it? I and my dog have rights and it is just a silly social convention and religious and moral bigotry to deny my dog and I our happiness!

ForHim
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ForHim 12/03/08 - 03:27 pm
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fd..you are correct that

fd..you are correct that there are people who wish to believe the Bible word-for-word. That is why it is important for Christians to study God's word..not just pick a verse and use it for their particular purpose. The Bible as a whole is God's instruction to us. Sin is clearly defined in the Bible all over including killing and murder. I believe the lack of understanding of Christian beliefs is a result of people who have not studied the Bible and don't know what it says..they believe that you can take a verse and use it in whatever context you would like to. That's not how it works. As for a perfect world, God made the world perfect..it was humans who sinned and continued to change things to their way that has caused all the ill in the world. We now have to live with our failures. We have the "right" to do anything we want to..we will just have to deal with the consequences. And I'm not a reglious person, per se..however, I very much enjoy having a relationship with Christ..it has made my life so much better. Not really sure how we got away from the letter that Christians aren't "haters" because that was what I was trying to address above...Have a good day.

carcraft
34943
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 03:30 pm
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One other thing I would like

One other thing I would like to say. Never in the recorded history of mankind has there been the concept of same sex "marriage" until very recently.

jack
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jack 12/03/08 - 03:31 pm
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Spot on Mr Rodgers. Hate the

Spot on Mr Rodgers. Hate the sin, but love the sinners, but don't try and force me to accept that sin, whether homo marriage or other sins. BTW, gay in my vocabulary still means being merry or happy.

carcraft
34943
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 05:07 pm
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fd1962, If the Bible equates

fd1962, If the Bible equates capital puinishment and murder why does God command the Jewish people to execute certain people, "If a man lies with a man as a women....", there are several places in scripture where God gives exacution as the punishment for various crimes and offenses. Society has a right to defend it's self from those who would freely destroy life. If you think murders should not be executed take the Atlanta court house killer home and look after him!

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 05:12 pm
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Lol, Carcraft, I'd be the
Unpublished

Lol, Carcraft, I'd be the last one to deny you and your dog the bliss you deserve. After all, a dog registered to vote in Ohio this year. (Democrat?) They are moving-up. Incidentally, those who are anti-gay ANYthing, for instance, might be interested to know that the word "homosexual" didn't appear in the Bible until about one hundred years ago. What happened? Did God come down with White-Out? It wasn't too long ago that inter-racial marriages were illegal. Segregation was the law of the land. Blacks weren't considered fully human. Women weren't allowed to vote. All of these peculiarities of our society also had their roots in the Bible. Not too many thinking Americans would defend them, now. For whatever it is worth, I am not gay. In fact, at times, I'm not even remotely happy. But, if anything, I am certainly NOT one of those sanctimonious saviors of traditional values out there who feel condemnation is the cure-all for everything you see with which you don't agree, although, like you, I do reserve an exception or two.

carcraft
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 05:20 pm
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fd1962-Homosexuality isn't

fd1962-Homosexuality isn't mentioned in the Bible but the First chapter of Romans certainly covers the subject. How would you define and inforce your defintion of marriage? There have to be some restricitons unless you want your employer to provide benefits to everybody at your expense, or the state to raise your taxes so the cost of care for polygmous can be covered!

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 05:23 pm
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Carcraft, people who aren't
Unpublished

Carcraft, people who aren't keen on gay marriage, or just gays, usually preach Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." If you mention that, way back when, an "abomination" referred to a ritual offense (Goat herders were an abomination to the Egyptians. Pork chops were abominations to the Hebrews.), they come up with Leviticus 20:13. "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they surely will be put to death."
Carcraft, let's say that the Bible is true. Word for word. It's all true. It HAS to be obeyed. Period. No wiggle room. If that is the case, about half of the American population will be dead from public stonings in, ohhhhh, about three or four days. You see, the Old Testament wasn't really big on mitigating circumstances when it came to crime or, as it was known then, sin. Just a casual look at the Ten Commandments could bring down American society post haste. No lying? No adultery? No swearing? No pining for someone else's wife or big screen TV? There goes the fabric of our nation, for crying out loud!

justthefacts
33818
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justthefacts 12/03/08 - 05:31 pm
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My neighbor's wife does look

My neighbor's wife does look pretty good! Darn, I'm doomed.

fd1962
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fd1962 12/03/08 - 05:40 pm
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Lol, Justthefacts, hope
Unpublished

Lol, Justthefacts, hope you're not a country club devotee. Divorce, by implication ("What God has joined together, let no man put asunder."), means you're destined for a stoning before happy hour! Enjoy.

carcraft
34943
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carcraft 12/03/08 - 07:02 pm
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I was responding to your

I was responding to your discussion of murder and capital punishment being scripturally equal. That was your 1:19 post where you state it was changed from thou shall not kill to thou shall not murder. My point being how can you fulfill the requirement for capital punishment if you don't kill and I was using that scripture since it was so well known.?

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