It seems to me that these two went to this bar in an attempt to force such a situation. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that this is not a regular stop for them and if checked you'd find that they would have to go out of their way to get there.
If the operators of the Tavern at Phipps in Buckhead thought they were promoting Southern gentility, they had a funny way of showing it.
Former NBA player Joe Barry Carroll claims in a federal lawsuit that he and another black man were asked to give up their seats at the tavern's bar for two white women on Aug. 11, 2006. He claims it was racially motivated, noting that none of the white men were asked to do the same.
The tavern's owner argues that race had nothing to do with it and gender had everything to do with it. "That's the way we like to do business. It's a courtesy to our female guests," the owner told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution .
Was it racially motivated? We don't know, though we'd be horrified if it was.
We do know, however, that you can extend all the courtesy you like -- but it's an untenable proposition to try to coerce someone else into doing the same.
Given this nation's history with regard to race, repeatedly asking two black men to give up their seats to two white women doesn't seem like the best of ideas to us -- to put it delicately. Perhaps, instead, the barkeep could have simply announced to all the blokes at the bar that two ladies were in need of a seat. Someone might have volunteered.
But having asked the two gentlemen in question once, and having been rebuked, a gentleman might also have left it alone.
Can you force someone to be a gentleman?
And if you try, isn't that, in itself, ungentlemanly?
Comments
It seems to me that these two went to this bar in an attempt to force such a situation. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that this is not a regular stop for them and if checked you'd find that they would have to go out of their way to get there.
This was just another case of the white man trying to keep the black man down. The bar should be burned to the ground and a riot started to make the usual point. Where's Jesse and Al when you need them.
In my time a man, young or old, automatically gave his seat to a lady when she entered into a room or area. They held doors, opened doors, and always put the welfare of a woman before their own..That was just decent behavior. All my children, my boys, have been taught those same principles..Unfortunately these behaviors are no longer being taught by fathers and mothers and enforced by fathers...A time gone past has given over to a time of "whatever makes me feel good and to blazes with everyone else" man or woman, boy or girl mentality...
His nickname was " Joe Barely Cares". Man was a sorry excuse for a Power Forward. Rockets got him to help Hakeem plug up the paint in a well timed trade of Ralph Sampson to the G.S. Warriors. Maybe once in his life he tried to show some intestinal fortitude. He just picked the wrong time.
Seriously though, I doubt it was racially motivated. Anybody who wanted to ply their racism would be ill advised to foist it on a 7 foot professional athelete.
Being a gentleman much like morals is not something one can force upon another. I don't know if this was racially motivated. But I do know it was unacceptable. The first request was reasonable, after that it was just wrong and inconceivable. It is more likely that the operators of the tavern were not fans and this was an effort to demonstrate that.
Yeah I can see how they went there to start trouble. They knew that therte would not be enough seating. They knew that they would be asked to give up their seats. Hell they even know what Tuesday Mega Million numbers will be. Oh, but do not get me wrong, I would not not waited to be asked to offer my seat.
Cold why are you so sure they went out of their way to get to the bar?
This writer is right on --- it is ungentlemanly to try to make someone be genteel. If you ask someone to be courteous and he refuses, leave him alone. It's too bad the bar's owners weren't a little savvier in dealing with Mr. Carroll. I doubt their actions were racially motivated but whatever their intent was in asking him to give up his seat it is now going to cost them plenty.
why didnt the white boys spring up and offer their seats? must have been some ugly women............
i am 52. my generation was taught to be polite and to have manners and respect. the feminist movement and equality of everything was a nail in the coffin of politeness and respect towards women. i have dated women that wanted their door opened and i have dated women that got very angry if you opened their door. those didnt last very long. lots of women want to be men or equal shall we say. be careful what you ask for?
Maybe it is just plain and simple lack of courtesy and someone asked a couple of men to give up their seats from a couple of ladies, maybe the men should not have been asked to begin with, maybe they-men of all races- should have risen to give their seats to the ladies, maybe it was a miracle in the happening that the men were in the right place at the right time and where seeking to find a lawsuit in the making and low and behold it happened...Or maybe it could have been all of the above...The point of the story is that it shouldn't be a story....
Yeah, me and a group of my friends, both Black and White, go out on the weekend looking for a lawsuit. MAYBE the bartender was just an idiot. Oh, save the did you wake up angry and the angry man routine. It would not be a story, if it never happened.
MAYBE, their glasses were empty and had not ordered in a while and that was the reason they were asked to give up their seats.
I've had that to happen to me, but, I understood the bar is there to make money and not for just a social gathering . Some of us don't have to abide with rules.
Oh puleeze Fire get another song and dance your beginning to sound like justus....
Maybe they had been there the longest. Maybe they had been over-served. This article does not give me enough information to make a judgment. Maybe you claiming racism know more about the incident. If not, you don't have enough information either.
Face it, the idiots are uncaring, unfeeling, selfish individuals who think that everyone "owes" them; failure to give in to their needs is "racism." Get a grip Joe, you're a clod who is not only self-centered, but a disgrace to ALL men.
I've lived and worked in the south most of my life, but for a year I lived and worked up north and found that racism and racist attitudes are more common there than here. Justus and Fire you need some new legs to stand on. If you didn't bring up the subject there'd be a lot less arguement on here!
Seems a set up by these guys to me. They knew the rules of theplace when they entered. Sounds like the black guy at a reataurant where I asked that the TV be turned off because ist was on sports cener with the usual two taling heads with the sound off. The black guy at the end of the bar immediately asked it be turned back on an immediately went on his cell phone not paying attention to the two talking heads at all, just to attempt to cause a black-white confrontation. I didn't fall for it.
It's a pickup joint for the well to do. Those women must have been butt ugly to not get a seat
I don't offer my seat to a women any more. They have invaded what used to be a respite from them, so I give them the same treatment any other man would get in a bar.
Justus, in Atlanta, you probalby will get your wish-a black judge and jury.
why has everything been turned into a racial issue? Why can't we all just get along with each other? Oh, wait.. that would be entirely too hard .
I don't know if this was racism. I don't have all the facts. But, I can see how it might be taken as racism.Coldbeer, your comments are without merit. You don't know if the guys are regular patrons or not. I doubt these guys went there, thinking a situation like this, might happen. Your comments, only reflect the onesidedness of your attitude.
The old cliche "making a mountain out of a mole hill" fits both the editorial and the comments herein. It was a bar where I have experienced (as a woman), you are on your own. If that bar was occupied by all men, I would rather sit at a table. No one mentioned why the women wanted to sit at the bar. Think about it.
Another article says a white and an indian were also asked to give up seats. So its for a jury to hear all the facts and decide. Funny how the AC didnt print the info that the bar and/or the attourneys provided about the other 2 being asked to give up their seats too. So to all those who complain the AC only prints the "white" side of things unless it pertains to a black being a criminal... you can stuff it!!!! this article is totatally one sided.. the side of the one claiming racism, so yur arguemnts about the AC do not hold water once again!!! The AC and other news reports what it wants to get a rise out of people plain and simple!!
Why if the AC got their info from AJC, did they leave out that the other man the nba star was with was an attorney when it was in their article? Things thaat make you go hmmmmmm. Selective reporting. tisk tisk
Baloney Takeastand!!!When we see one of these articles, that half way gives blacks the benefit of the doubt, us or Obama are about to get slammed tommorow. If you can't see the racial bias coming from them, then it's because you are racially biased. No Pat, it's just a coincidence that you are against ,affirmative action, immigration, women'schoice, and anything that predominately effects other races and nationalities negatively. Nahh, you're not trying to hold them back.
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