Yes, why not open-minded discussion?

Thank-you Mr Ward for giving us a direct quote form Darwin to disclaim his own theory. Well done sir.

Interestingly, the idea of evolution was current long before Darwin came along. The problem was, what made it happen? Lamarck came close to the idea of natural selection in 1800, and by mid century Wallace and Darwin were able to state it and demonstrate with conclusive natural examples.

Jeez both quotes taken out of context. Anyways Darwin is just a historical footnote in the developing theory of evolution. Darwin was mostly wrong by all scientific accounts-even Gould refers to Darwins ideas as a "Bauplan" for development of the theory. Gould's diss of gradualism was a push for his punctuated equilibrium (you don't need gradualism). Besides now numerous species evolution have been followed gradualistically in the fossil record. Further the genetic changes associated with the changes have also been followed in a number of species with archaic DNA studies. You need to follow the Modern Synthesis and Population genetics if you want to understand evolution now-forget Darwin. It is like looking up the definition of a word in an 1800 dictionary rather than in a 2008 one. Shooting down evolution shoots down all of Biological and Medical research and progress. If you don't believe in evolution you need to live in a cave with no medical care or modern food crops. Nothing in biology makes sense without evolution. You can't capriciously pick evolution out of all biological or medical science and accept all the rest as gospel.

Read Gould's The Structure of Evolutionary Theory for a good starter book and a good accounting of the history. You have to be incredibly naive and uninformed not to accept evolution as fact, and it takes a real moron to associate the science of evolution with faith or the lack of faith. Faith is not an argument against science nor is science an argument against faith. But of course so many illogical minds follow this logical fallacy. It would be like saying the Big Bang proves the Genesis accounting of creation. LeMaitre was a catholic priest who told Einstein his notions and equations support a beginning of the universe (a cosmic egg). LeMaitre's ideas were taken by the Pope as support for the biblical Genesis, and LeMaitre chastized the Pope for the non sequitur and that this was science and not religion. Theodosius Dozhansky the noted geneticist and evolutionary biologist and contributor to the Modern Synthesis himself spoke of God as creating through evolution, and considered himself a communicant of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Moron here.

Why bother arguing Bizarro? You are just drawing out the morons.

I just think it is a sin to drive people away from Christ by making a big deal about evolution. If your faith hangs on evolution it ain't much. I didn't know squat about evolution so I decided to seek and ye shall find. Well I found plenty, and it has strengthened my faith. I have no doubts about evolution or God. Hey I was once an animal, but since I accepted Christ I am slowly evolving into a human and a man. It appears we evolve physically and spiritually. Hee,hee,hee. How is that cave JesusisComing are you still using candles.

Why does the AC continue to run letters on evolution versus creationism? Maybe it's because they see where their right-wing has miserably failed in all issues that can be measured, so they want to focus the debate on the emotion of religion versus science.

I think biologist have failed to explain evolution to laypersons as well as they meet resistance from some fundamentalist faith based organizations. Kudos to physicists who explain Relativity and String theory so even country bumpkins have some notion of the ideas. The divide between laypersons and biological scientists has grown from this non-issue. Fortunately the vast majority of the faithful have no problem with evolution and only a miniscule population resist the notion. So is this small population of faithful dictating that the majority of Christians are going to hell because of this belief???? I see a slippery slope.

Why does shivas keep posting his slop. Shivas, say again, when did you grow up in Harrisburg?

So JesusisComing do you completely discount what some people call microevolution, and just discount macroevolution (they are the same just different time scales) or do you just close your eyes and mind to both? Do you do the same for your faith and never bother to read your bible? I am amazed at the number of faithful who have never read the bible or depend on someone else to tell them what it says. I don't know what religion they are practicing but it surely isn't Christianity. The bible doesn't give a lot of detail about a lot of things so I guess they don't exist.

I agree shivas, this is a dead horse that is beaten so many times, it is turning to dust!

The AC doesn't drive this car, but people like Gil Ward. I wonder if he has a license to drive that thing? hee,hee,hee.

Why is it a dead horse de2? Because you and Shivas think so??? Where is the geological evidence to support evolution???? Read the book, Chariots of the Gods and come back with your line when you can prove it!

What's it to you nightraider? I would think you should spend most of your time demanding that the world is flat, it's a sin to eat shellfish, and that Noah actually had all those animals on the ark. You are the perfect example of the saying, "ignorance is bliss."

Shivas, don't get your thong in a wad--I just asked when did you live there--You're the one who said you did! By the way, methinks you are a prime example of [filtered word] sheeple!!!!! heck, gimme my check!

Hold on nightraider. Now ol shivas and them may have a point. I believe in partial evolution. Here's my thought. For those who believe in it, I believe they did evolve. I believe they evolved from the jackassimuss donkeyoossoramuss, a rare flightless mule found in most any state in any hemisphere.

What does Chariots of the Gods have to do with evolution? It has to do with gods being myths from alien encounters. Obviously you haven't read the book either.

THE FOOL HATH SAID IN HIS OWN HEART, THERE IS NO GOD. To each his own idiot. The "center point" has and always will be that "man divinely created by GOD" is not an animal. Was never an ape or ape like creature. He was made in the image of his creator. Scientifically speaking, then logically GOD is an ape. "Planet of the Apes" was "pure science" and not "racism".

The term Imago Dei (image of God)refers most fundamentally to two things: first, to God's own self-actualization through humankind; and second, to God's care for humankind. To say that humans are in the image of God is to recognize the special qualities of human nature which allow God to be made manifest in humans. For humans to have the conscious recognition of their being in the image of God means that they are the creature through whom God's plans and purposes can be made known and actualized; humans, in this way, can be seen as co-creators with God. The moral implications of the doctrine of imago Dei are apparent in the fact that if humans are to love God, then humans must love other humans, as each is an expression of God. The human's likeness to God can also be understood by contrasting it with that which does not image God, i.e., beings who, as far as we know, are without self-consciousness and the capacity for spiritual / moral reflection and growth. Humans differ from all other creatures because of their rational structure - their capacity for deliberation and free decision-making.

Obibously, you haven't Biz. Maybe you want to read God's From Outer Space, same author.

I think you are correct, Sneak!

So we were created in God's image, but since the Fall of man he has changed from that image. So modern man wouldn't be in the image of God. To believe God is a grey haired white man is not theologically sound, and generally whenever God appears in human form it is actually Christ. Read Revelations account of God's appearance: and "he who sat on the throne was like a jasper stone (crystal clear) and a sardinus (blood red) in appearance, and there was a rainbow around the throne". So is God a jewel man or do we appear as jewels? Doesn't sound human to me.

I don't believe in alien life -I'm not a mormon (hee,hee). What does Chariots of the Gods have to do with evolution? It has to do with god myths not evolution. I have read Chariots of the God (but that was forty years ago), but no I didn't waste my time reading any further contributions. I don't believe there is intelligent life elsewhere, nor on this planet for that matter. hee,hee,hee. Reading the AC has proven with impunity I'm correct on that assertion.

That was the point, biz, intelligent life did visit, thus the present day humans. Genesis alludes to it too. By the way, it was about 30 years ago when I read it, ha! Tells why no gelogical proof of the missing link may not be found tho!

The book was published in 1968 right after the Summer of Love. There is no evidence of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe. No more SETI program looking either. Even if we have been visited by alien or extra-dimensional life that has no connection with God no more than evolution. The fossil record of primates is quite extensive and there is no missing link. The term "human", in the context of human evolution, refers to the genus Homo, but studies of human evolution usually include other hominins, such as the australopithecines. The Homo genus diverged from the australopithecines about 2 million years ago in Africa. Several species of Homo evolved, including Homo erectus, which spread to Asia, and Homo neanderthalensis, which spread to Europe. Homo sapiens evolved between 400,000 and 250,000 years ago. Most scientists favor the view that modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the globe, replacing populations of H. erectus and Neanderthals. Others view modern humans as having evolved as a single, widespread population.

Aliens. Wow, that explains a lot nightraider. Explains the pyramids, crop circles, stonehenge, jonah and the whale, President Bush and etc... Yes, I must agree that the aliens theory is much more credible than this evolution stuff. Hey, maybe you should check-out L.Ron Hubbard, and discover your whole life has been influenced by the engram encoded in you during your mother's pregnancy. She didn't live by a school for the mentally retarded during her prenancy did she? Sneaky Pete, that was funny.

Hey sneaky: Did you have a nice Father's day? About this evolution thing- got some brain teasers for those that have one-1. IF we evolved from apes- where are there STILL apes? Did anyone pause? Well- there could be evolution and God- here's how- 2. what if God in his devine ability to create did a "rough draft" prior to creating the human species as it is now- OR 3. what if God created the animals and had it planned for us to evolve from apes. I think God has one of the best senses of humor- I wouldn't put it past him!

They just solved the Stonehenge mystery-it is a burial ground and like the egyptians they too were interested in cosmology. I bet nightraider has been visited by aliens. I bet they took a large sample of grey matter from his brain. I just know them anal probes have got to hurt. Ouch. hee,hee,hee.

Now that's too funny Biz. However, I expect nightraider kinda enjoyed it.