A bittersweet birthday

The creation of the modern day state of Israel has nothing to do with biblical prophesy, God's will, or historical inevitability. It was a creation of The Big Powers which pushed it through the UN in 1948 over the objection of every Arab country in the region. It was done largely to assuage European guilt over the Holocaust. Jewish Zionism has its roots in the late 19th century. That was in response to centuries of Jewish persecution in Europe & Russia. Christian Zionism is the religious-right's ridiculous claim that Jews must inhabit biblical Israel & certain other events must take place before Jesus comes again. They ironically support the Jewish state of Israel in order to expedite the physical return of the Christian Messiah. Before 1948, before Jewish guerrilla warfare in the 1930s, and before the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 & other acts of terrorism by the Jewish Irgund, Jews & Arabs lived side by side in the land known as Palestine. It was not an uninhabited desert as Zionist like to portray. Many Palestinians' land was seized by the Jewish state & today more than 6 million Palestinian refugees live in Lebanon & elsewhere. Hamas condemns the Holocaust. Hamas is not engaged in a religious conflict with Jews; but in a political struggle to free themselves from occupation & oppression. A two-state compromise may be a necessary intermediate step, but ultimately Israelis & Palestinians must share the land equally and live side by side as they did before the advent of Zionism in Palestine. Christian Zionists will have to face the fact that Jesus Christ is not returning to earth in future in physical form. The Holy Spirit of Love must live in our hearts RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW or else we make our own hell right here on earth.

Happy 60th Israel...May your enemies turn from you and let your people live in peace....That is my prayer for you....

Every country that is in existence today is the result of a strong entity overcoming a weak adversary. Israel is no different. The fact that they suffer endless attacks and continually defeat their aggressors just seems to inflame the International Press, who encourages the endless assault. As long as America and Israel remain allies, the rest of the world be damned.

There is an alternative to the right-wing madness exemplified by The Augusta Chronicle editorial position on Israel, the crazy Christian Zionists, and the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) which has far too much influence on U.S. foreign policy. "The J Street Project" has been established (in M.J. Rosenberg's words) "to raise political money for candidates who manifest their support for Israel not by assiduously, devotedly, and energetically defending the status quo but by supporting the two-state solution."//"Five Myths About Being Pro-Israel by Jeremy Ben Ami of J Street Project" posted by M.J. Rosenberg [TPM Cafe] May 9, 2008 "Jeremy Ben Ami, the founder of the J Street Project, has a piece in Sunday's Washington Post about what it means to be pro-Israel. Not surprisingly, Jeremy - who is an American but from a very prominent Zionist family in Israel - believes that the cranks who are always calling people "anti-Israel" for supporting negotiations are not themselves pro-Israel at all. I don't believe that various segments of the lobby have Israel's interests in mind. Nor America's. Their interest is in power, power for its own sake [cont'd]

[cont'd] Their interest is in power, power for its own sake and for the sheer joy of making powerful politicians grovel. That is why Yitzhak Rabin told the lobby to take a hike when he became prime minister in 1992. He wanted Israel to deal with the US "government to government" without the lobby playing the role of intermediary. But that would have put the lobby out of business (no wonder they couldn't stand Rabin)."//
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/08/AR200805...
"5 Myths on Who is Really 'Pro-Israel'" by Jeremy Ben-Ami [The Washington Post] Sunday, May 11, 2008

madness...now there's a subject I contend you're an expert on.

Cain we don't care where you got your opinion-the opinions of all those you mentioned. The bottom line you are an anti-zionist, which by definition is anti-semitic. The land of Israel is central to judaism as the relationship of mankind and God, Jews and God, and God and Israel. You tell a jew you are anti-zionist and you might as well spit in their face. I do agree that Zionism has always been a political movement and not a religious one but the jews have always had hope of returning like the song Ha-Tikvah says. "Christian Zionists will have to face the fact that Jesus Christ is not returning to earth in future in physical form. The Holy Spirit of Love must live in our hearts RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW or else we make our own hell right here on earth." You don't believe in God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit and further your description is ignorant blasphemy. AND ONCE AGAIN IT IS YOUR OPINION WHICH ISN'T THE GOSPEL-you sick delusional little man. I KNOW FOR A FACT CHRIST HAS NEVER LEFT SO WHY WOULD HE RETURN. His very words "and I will be with you till the end of time." You hate Christians which Christ states if you hate them you hate him. You can state your opinion that you are not anti-semitic but that has nothing to do with reality. You have a perverted world view and I can only imagine the "environment" which precipitated your illness.

I will keep all in my prayers and let the prophecy take care of itself. When the Lord is ready to raise Israel all the Irans, Russias, or any of them other Jew hating nations will be able to stop it.

I predict a good jew will put a Kabbalah curse on Cain for his support of Hamas and the Palestinians. I can only imagine what will befall him, maybe a Golem, boils, locust eat his pine trees, etc. Hee,hee,hee.

It is nothing personal but just a fact that Judaism and Israel are fundamentally linked (God made a special covenant with Israel) so if you are against Israel you are against the Jews. Just like if you are against Christians (which is the body of Christ) you are against Christ. Just a religious doctrine or belief-I didn't make the rules the Torah and Bible say it. The Brits and U.N. decided to create Israel which many of you seem to hold in such high esteem in dealing with such issues. "The modern state of Israel has its roots in the Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), a concept central to Judaism for over three thousand years. After World War I, the League of Nations approved the British Mandate of Palestine with the intent of creating a "national home for the Jewish people."[7] In 1947, the United Nations approved the partition of the Mandate of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab.[8] The Arab League rejected the plan, but on May 14, 1948, the Jewish provisional government declared Israel's independence. " The Palestinians resistance to the existence of Israel from the get go has always been the root of all their problems which has befallen them. The chickens have come home to roost as the good Rev. Wright would say. Hee,hee,hee. Israel welcomes two states and Palestine only one with the destruction of Israel. A one state solution will be a Islamic theocratic one.

I do not believe that Jesus is God incarnate nor do I think he claimed to be God. I suspect the religion OF Jesus & the religion ABOUT Jesus are quite different. My quarrel is with the church as an institution with its obligatory doctrines. Jews do not believe that Jesus is God either. That is what makes the alliance of convenience between Jewish Zionists & Christian Zionist so ironic. The Christian Zionists want Jews to rule greater Israel & for the temple to be rebuilt. They claim this must happen for Jesus to return in physical form & establish rule on Earth. What nonsense! Christian Zionists are using Jews to hasten the apocalypse & Jewish Zionists are using gullible Christians for the purpose of supporting the Jewish state of Israel. This much is certain. Time for a peace accord is running out under the squandered & inept Presidency of George W. Bush. The leaders of both Israel & the Palestinian Authority, Ehud Olmert & Mahmoud Abbas, both want peace but both are too weak politically to negotiate a two-state "solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank are still a sticking point. U.S. policy must become more even handed to succeed

The thing about nuclear weapons is why have them if you are not going to "potentially" use them. It is not a bluff if you can't call. The fact we have the reputation for using them is the best advertisement you can buy. Americans are arrogant-just like Cain for example, and true enough it may not be warranted but it has helped us attain great things in having a positive and competitive attitude and not fall into a pity party because of our shortcomings. The Power of Myth can yield great changes postive and negative.

Here is a typical Cain post........"Bush is a war criminal" (cut and paste) (cut and paste) I hate Bush (cut and past) (cut and paste) I hate America (cut and past) blah-blah-blah (cut and past) I hate the military (cut and paste) (cut and paste) the New York times said (cut and past) (cut and paste)....................and by the way......Cain....you are still an IDIOT.

The bible contains truth, Bizarro, but it is metaphorical truth NOT the inerrant word of God. It is a book written by humans. Jews are no more God's chosen people than are any other people. The claim that Jews are God's chosen people is a subjective claim like claiming United States is the greatest nation on Earth. The Old Testament was written by Jews so it is not surprising that the books in The Old Testament vilify (& sometimes mischaracterize the religion of) the enemies of the Jews. You are reading a history of the Jews written by Jews & you don't think it is slanted? Jesus took issue with folks who uphold the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law. Jesus was an iconoclast. That got him in trouble with Jewish authorities & with Roman authorities. Jesus said some radical things including the unheard of "crazy" idea of "love your enemies." Bizarro says I hate Jews, but he clearly hates Muslims or the religion of Islam. All this business about people who hate Israel being cursed by God is a bunch of made of mythology. I don't hate Jews or the Jewish religion. I want Jews, Muslims, Christians, and others to be able to live in Israel-Palestine. Human rights is the bottom line with humanists.

cain, the jewish people are god's chosen people.the first five books of the bible are their history,their laws and the story of their very real exsistence on this earth. your opening statement in your first post negate's anything else you have to say.
thankfully,at least for christians,the babble you spew is just that , babble.it may impress some posters here, it may make you feel like a learned man, but one day you will give account, it is a fact you will leave this plane of existence, and the burning, literally burning question is where will you go next.
do you think a few mere words of arrogant anti-american , anti-jewish psuedointellectualism will erase the recorded history of a nation as old as israel/
you are the fool incarnate spoken of so many times in the bible.
you armchair quarterbacking has grown old, why don't you declare yourself for a run at the presidency, then we'll see how well your grandiose plans play out.c'mon, go for it, you may even get two votes, if you have your wife fooled.

I don't hate anyone. I state the facts as stated by Palestinians, Hamas, etc. that they are dedicated to destroy Israel. You are shooting the messenger. It is also a fact that Islam is a religion and a government. I don't hate them (I almost became a muslim)I pray for all arabs who hate us and are our enemy. If you are against the State of Israel you are against the Jew is a statement of fact. Islam is an imperialist and ideological religion by its nature. Christianity is a philosophical revolution-love your enemy for example. Bizarro doesn't state you hate jews. Bizarro points out that God says you hate jews by being an anti-Zionist. Playlikethunder2 recognized pseudointellectualism too. I know you don't "believe" in the bible or Torah, but some people don't believe in evolution either. What's a person to do. Oh, and Cain, you recently implied I was a Nazi when low and behold you are the Nazi. You have to be human to be a humanist.

There is little that can be done about the creation of the Jewish state at this point. There is little that can be done about the fact that Jewish permanent settlements MAY have displaced nomadic tribesmen. The Jews brought water into the desert, developed industry and farming, and developed a modern society with stability and democracy where none before existed. The Jews raised the quality of life for all Arabs in the region. However, what's done is done. They are there and deserve to live in peace. .....................My question to Cain is at what point do people recognize the rights of Israel. The Arabs attacking Israel over "historical" land claims is a little like the Cherokee Indians attacking Asheville, North Carolina stating they want their land back.

So, Bizarro, the peace movement in Israel is "anti-Israel" in your eyes, I suppose, & they are condemned to burn in hell for hating Jews. There is an active dialog within Israel (in many ways more open than ours) about Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. Some upscale Israelis want organic products, but not organic products grown or raised on illegal Jewish settlements on the West Bank. Please don't hand me this malarkey about God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. There was something called the Diaspora. Jews have less of an exclusive historical claim on the land of Palestine than American natives have on the North American continent. God "gave" the land of Israel to the Jews only because they wrote that down. The Great Spirit gave the North American continent to the Native peoples who populated this land, but they did not write it down. What makes one ancient claim more valid than the other? The Jewish claim expired 3500 years ago. The Native peoples of North America have a legitimate claim to this land going back only 500 years. The Indians claim is 7 times more current than the ancient Jewish claim. When Israel was established in 1948 Palestinians did not agree and were not compensated to their satisfaction. Their lands were seized. They were NOT nomadic people (a myth augustalawyer tries to pass of as truth) but a settled, agrarian people.

Cain what you believe or do not believe is immaterial except that one day you will find the truth....hopefully before you meet your Maker...As far as Isreal is concerned she will always be here and if we turn our back on her we, as a nation, will suffer the consequences....

Mumbojumbo BS, christian134, Mumbojumbo! Take a look at the original crusades. The original intent was for Christians to regain access to The Holy Land, especially Christian holy sites. It started out as a noble cause in the first crusade which was launched in 1095. That goal was accomplished within 5 years. After that the mission degenerated into greed and other human deprivations. There were acts of heroism and acts of brutality on both sides. Maintaining long supply lands became a problem for the west. In less than 200 years Jerusalem was back in the hands of the Arabs. The modern day state of Israel is 60 years old. It bears no relationship to ancient Israel, God's mandate, God's will, or any other mythological religious contrivance. Will the modern day state of Israel exist in another 140 years? That is unlikely unless lasting peace accords are reached. The two-state solution mentioned above is a necessary intermediate step. Bush has done NOTHING to promote peace in the Middle East. Quite the contrary. Bush does war not diplomacy. He stood silently by and aided Israel in its failed war in Lebanon in summer 2006. Arabs have legitimate grievances which Israelis must recognize and address.

Once the Jews become "perfected" the issue of a Jewish state will be like chasing the wind. Let all the Christians say Amen!

Cain--I rebuke you in the Name of Jesus! It is a pity indeed that you now publically denounce Christ, for one day you will be on your knees to proclaim to his face that Jesus is Lord, and you along with Satan will be cast down to the lake of fire for all eternity. Doesn't that even bother you? I pity many people who defy God, but you sir, are one I will be praying for the hardest. You do need Christ, and he is NOT a Religion, He is REAL!

"So, Bizarro, the peace movement in Israel is "anti-Israel" in your eyes, I suppose, & they are condemned to burn in hell for hating Jews. " Where would you get an idiotic non sequitur like that from. You don't have a logical mind at all. No wonder you couldn't cut it in grad school. I can see that it would be futile to "reason" with you or try to educate you for that matter-given your propensity to discount any information or sources that discount or don't agree with your opinions. It is bad cricket to use other author's opinions in the literature to support your POV when the they may not support your views or agree with your commentary. It is orginal research. While the author's points maybe valid to their article-you can't use them to create a new argument or say that their opinions justify your posit. It is just your opinion-no more no less-and no weight is added with adding others opinions. Israel has legitimate grievances that Palestinians must recognize and address.

"Every knee will bow" right DeborahElliot2. Sometimes it is Hell to be wrong. I think Cain hardened his heart and now God has hardened it. His path is clear and he it chose by his own free will to taste the second death. I will live forever. I bet that gauls the heck outta some people that Bizarro will live forever-especially those who have despised Bizarro for being so dang brilliant and usually correct during his career-and such an arse about it (hey I asked God to forgive me for my arrogance, but God did make me special-yeah I'm working on humility hee,hee,hee. Cain you will die so you should be happy. I will forever and I will be happy. The Buddha encouraged people to want happiness for other sentient beings. I am happy.

Bizarro wrote at 9:17 am "If you are against the State of Israel you are against the Jew is a statement of fact. ... Bizarro points out that God says you hate jews by being an anti-Zionist." So, I counter with the sequitur "Does the Israeli peace movement (which is anti-Zionist) mean that these Israelis are themselves "anti-Israel". The answer, Bizarro, is "of course not". Because they & I object to the foreign policy of the right-wing govt of Israel does not mean I hate Jews or hate the Jewish state. Yes, I am anti-Zionist. Jews & all people deserve a homeland. They do not have the right to seize that land from others without mutual agreement & mutually agreed upon just compensation. That did not happen when Israel is founded in 1948. I have pointed out how Menachem Begin & other Jewish terrorists in the Irgund blew up the Kind David Hotel in 1946. You gloss over that. I am opposed to an expansionist Israel. Israel may have a right to exist in its original boundaries. It doesn't have the right to occupy seized lands. And they certainly don't have the right to a "greater Israel" that Israeli expansionists (Zionists if you will) claim the bible gives them. Arabs are God's people too

Your 10:36 am post is more delusional, mumbojumbo myth, Bizarro. Reality ... check into it.// Will Israel Survive to 100? Daoud Kuttab - Not if it stays the course. "Israel Must Adapt To Survive" [The Washington Post] 13 May 2008
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/daoud_kuttab/2008/05/israe...

You "believe" it is a myth. You can't "prove"it is a myth. Did you know that recently mice were added to the animals which can use tools. They were taught to use a rake as a tool. Maybe there is hope for you Cain. The Israeli peace movement is not about the dissolution of Israel (or being against the state of Israel) but about a peace between Israel and a Palestinian state, which is not the same as being anti-Zionist and against the existence of the state of Israel. "The Israeli peace camp has poor standings in the Israeli public, as regular surveys by the Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research show (for example: May 2004). The Tami Steinmetz Center for Peace Research has been watching Israeli public opinion toward the peace process and the peace camp for more than a decade.""The Israeli peace camp is highly criticized for lacking realism given the absence of a corresponding movement on the Arab side of the conflict. It is also accused for being forgiving toward Palestinian political violence and not being able to stand up for the rights of the Israelis and the vital interests of Israel. "

Israeli Jews kill exponentially more Arabs than Arabs kill Israelis. I support the right of Jews to live in The Holy Land. I do not support a Jewish state. I support a secular state where Arabs, Jews, Christians & others live side by side. The two-state "solution" may be an necessary intermediate step to reach the ultimate goal of one secular state. Jimmy Carter is not anti-semitic or anti-Israel. He takes a different tack than the radical right-wing policies of the Bush administration & the reactionary views expressed by The Chronicle & various posters in this thread. Heavy influence of Bible Belt fundamentalist thinking is evident in this thread & in other threads where science, logic, & reason are required. There are plenty of Christian zealots pointing fingers at "Muslim extremists". When land is seized people naturally fight back & they don't forget for generations if ever. One thing is clear, Bizarro, the iron fist policy of Israel has not worked. There have been several Intifada. Without international, big player diplomacy we are headed for a clash of cultures & civilizations. The U.S., Israel & the west are vastly outnumbered. Hypocritically we may be the 1st to use nukes.

Israel is a secular state (Israel operates under a parliamentary system as a democratic country with universal suffrage) where Arabs, jews, and Christians all live side by side already. It is the Palestinians and muslims who will not tolerate a Jewish State nor a govt that is not a theocratic one. So Israel has already met the goals you seek. Science, logic, or reason are something you obviously know little about. "Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. With the establishment of Israel, the remaining lands were divided amongst Egypt, Syria and Jordan. The Arab governments at this point refused to set up a State of Palestine."