There are those who will never admit victory. It boggles the imagination.
First the Democrats -- at least most of them -- opposed the Iraq War on grounds that the enemy had won. Recall when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid proclaimed that it was time to get out because U.S. troops had been defeated by al-Qaida's fueling of the burgeoning Shiite-Sunni civil war.
Although the cut-and-runners were maniacally opposed to President Bush's "surge," they didn't have the votes to stop it, even after Democrats won control of Congress in 2006. But with more U.S. boots on the ground, the civil war violence was largely quelled, allowing a semblance of security and civil life to return to Baghdad and other parts of Iraq.
As it became increasingly clear the surge was working, the anti-war crowd shifted their line of attack, pointing out that the surge was supposed to buy time for the Nouri al-Maliki-led, Shiite-dominated government to negotiate reconciliation with balking minority Sunnis and Kurds.
Despite a temporary setback on moving forward with provincial elections in October, much reconciliation was achieved last month, with feuding sides reaching a broad understanding on economic issues and pledging cooperation in other sensitive areas, including trade and banking reform.
Now anti-war Democrats no longer contend the war is lost, or that the surge isn't working, or that reconciliation isn't happening. Instead, in the Senate's current Iraq War debate, they're attacking the war's financial cost.
Typical is U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer of New York, and his charge that the war is the "$800 billion gorilla in the room" that's swallowing up funds that could be used to ameliorate the subprime mortgage crisis or spent on other needy domestic programs.
America has spent enough, Sen. Reid says now -- "When is enough going to be enough?"
Then there's Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama complaining on the campaign trail about the "trillions of dollars" the war will cost if rival GOP candidate John McCain has his way.
Talk about exaggeration.
It's clear that no matter how often they're proved wrong about the Iraq war, Democrats' leaders always will find another reason to oppose it. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), clearly got it right when he said, "The Democrats are sort of in denial. It's almost as if they're sorry things have gotten better."
They are right that the war is horrendously expensive, but it will be even more horrendously expensive if the United States follows its pull-out policy and then later has to go back and start all over to again clean up a mess that it's almost got cleaned up now.
Comments
There are those who will never admit victory. It boggles the imagination.
Now cue the neurotic cain, "informing" the world that I am not him. Something about how I don't have an original thought. You should see his "Augusta Alternative" board where he does nothing but gather news stories and blogs that have, guess what........no original thoughts.
According to Lourdes Garcia-Navarro's report from Iraq broadcast on NPR's "Morning Edition" on Mon 03 Mar 2008 (archived & available as a podcast for online listening anytime) Sunnis in Samarra are anything but reconciled with Iraq's Shiite-led central government. In Diyala province "Tribal Awakening" forces who are paid by the U.S. to fight Al Qaeda have walked off the job demanding that a corrupt Shiite police chief in Baquba be fired. The "final offensive" that Iraq Prime Minister Nouri Kamal al-Maliki promised 2 weeks ago against Al Qaeda forces in Mosul has now morphed into a "partnership" for a months long U.S. effort. In other words Iraqi forces have NOT stood up and secured their own country. U.S. forces are going to be kept in Iraq in large numbers to provide security for elections in October, and there is squabbling in Iraq's parliament over those elections. Sunnis, Shiites & Kurds are FAR from reconciliation in Iraq & will NEVER come together as long as Iraq is occupied by a foreign military power. Economist Joseph Stiglitz says the Iraq war has cost $3 trillion & may eventually cost $5 to $7 trillion - MORE THAN THE COST OF WWII. The Chronicle is blowing smoke as usual.
More than the cost of WWII..... duh! It has lasted longer. I guess if it cost a lot it's not worth it? So much for your much lauded universal health care...it will cost FAR more than WWII. What a goob.
AUGUSTA CHRONICAL READERS AND ADMINISTRATORS: PLEASE NOTE THAT THE PERSON POSTING AT 4:47 am, 4:49 am & 4:53 am is not JohnRandolphHardisonCain but someone using a CLOSE APPROXIMATION of my name to confuse readers and sabbotage Reader Comments. Compare the original content of my post at 4:51 am with the lack of substance in his. His only advantage is that he agrees with The Chronicle's tripe which is why The Chronicle allows this type of disruptive behavior IMO. The poser offers NO EVIDENCE the surge has worked to pacify Iraq, stabilize Iraq, or lead to an Iraq that can "govern itself, defend itself, and sustain itself" without massive U.S. military backing (and ENORMOUS) costs for YEARS and YEARS to come.
You are such a predictable little man. I have offered tons of evidence but you ignore it all. I suppose the chronicle allows me to PARODY YOU for the same reason they allow you to LIBEL the president when you accuse him of crimes with no evidence. I intend to confuse no one which is obvious to most thinking people!
We are expected to applaud 5 years of failure before the Commander in Cheif decides to listen to the military? Only Republicans understand this type of "logic." The surge has reduced violence from absolutely unacceptable to now, intolerable. Violence continues in Iraq, and withdrawing troops would provide just as much decrease in violence as increasing them. America will decide in November.
The Philadelphia transit system's has ordered light rail cars. That order has been delayed by 4 months because the U.S. govt has the corner on steel supplies to build mine resistant armored vehicles for the war in Iraq. The fiscal costs of the war are ENORMOUS. Americans are coming to realize the damage it is doing to our economy. Peter Slevin of The Washington Post writes: 'Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio). . . has heard about the war's budgetary impact while listening to constituents at 85 roundtables since early 2007. He said he hears from business owners and government officials that federal support for such things as police and utility improvements is drying up. "They are starting to understand this economically," said Brown, who defeated Republican incumbent Mike DeWine in 2006 with a message that touched on the war, the economy and corruption. "They are seeing that, because of tax cuts and because of the immense cost of the war, they aren't getting what they need locally." '// Linda Bilmes on Our 'Three Trillion Dollar War' [NPR's "Fresh Air"] 03 March 2008
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=87855957
The war has already cost hundreds of trillions of dollars and over ten million Americans have been needlessly slaughtered and now we'll have to give the whole country to China because of borrowing. The sky is falling and I'm a full blown liar. VOTE DEMOCRAT!! (note the person posting as JohnRandolfHardisonCain may have crawled from someones depression ridden mind)
Thanks again for some perspective, Patricia.
Cain: "the U.S. govt has the corner on steel supplies" Cain, you are so full of fertilizer, that I bet you have brown eyes. Nobody has a "corner" on steel supplies...that's like saying "Toyota has the corner on steel supplies" because they are building lots of cars. There is steel sitting in warehouses right this very moment, just looking for buyers. The price of steel has gone up, however, because they same forces that drive up the price of oil and coal, drive up the price of steel.
patricia, before I saw the name and caught the sardonic tone, I honestly thought I was reading another Cain post. VERY nicely done...
justus4, my niece drove a fuel truck in Afghanistan for the army. My other niece serves in the military stateside. I have one brother who served on a nuclear submarine as a nuclear engineer in the military and only left the military after an disabling accident. I have 3 nephews who have all served and two are still serving (one had a disabling back injury), at least two in Iraq. Another relative is a Lieutenant Colonel. My father served in the Green Beret, was a paratrooper, also in Signal as a Master Sgt. in the Army until he retired. None of us view Bush's legacy as awful.
weekapaug, those who do not understand the law of gravity still get bruises when they fall down the steps...
I like the advise that President Bush gave the "Turks." They should go in accomplish there mission as quickly as possible and get out. He should take his own advise.
America has only once pulled troops out of a foregn country after a war is over. Vietnam. We still have troops stationed in Korea, Japan, Europe, etc... How much does it cost to maintain bases in these countries? Should we pull all out troops out of these countries and recall our entire navy?
Here is a quote from a story in The Philadelphia Inquirer on 28 Feb 2008 titled "SEPTA won't get new rail cars for months": "New SEPTA Regional Rail cars will be at least four months late, delaying relief for riders on the increasingly crowded rail lines, SEPTA officials said yesterday. ... Rotem was unable to procure enough of the type of steel specified in the SEPTA contract because the U.S. government has cornered the market; it is using the steel for armoring vehicles bound for Iraq, Nowakowski said."// "The Three Trillion Dollar War" by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Bilmes is available on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Trillion-Dollar-War-Conflict/dp/0393067017
Bloomberg News has a review of the book by its critic, Charles Taylor
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601088&sid=aJWW_q5WSn1I&refer=home
It's evidently ok to spend billions on an unnecessary invasion, but spend a little on social programs and watch the conservative go apoplectic. We are in a quagmire in Iraq that is draining this country of money and lives.
The Chronicle must have warehouses FULL of "Bush is #1" foam fingers. The title of that piece could very easily apply to their own perspective on...well, anything.
Well, Cain, those SEPTA riders can do without more cars for awhile (snivel,snivel)but the troops cannot do without their armored vehicles. Seems I remember that during WW II, we could not get rubber tires for cars, gasoline was rationed, sugar was rationed, and in general, we did without a lot of "nice to have" things in order to win the damn war. What's so different today with the war on terrorism? Of course, I take whatever shows up in the Philadelphia Enquirer about the same as I do the NY Terrorist Times or Washington Poop.
JohnCain, notice how many posters here are classic trolls, flamers and plants. It is no wonder the Chronicle does not have a function to ignore them. That is still the best approach to idiots like JonCain or Jack "I think I'm so Clever with Names." A reasonable discussion would do quite well without their input.
Bragging the surge is working, is like boasting, I married the wrong woman or man and we are going to get a divorce.Hey, at least we're not arguing and fighting today. We are climbing this ladder of success, to bad it's leaning against the wrong building.
I'm lovin' it...isn't the Democrat Party full of the folks saying that America hasn't "sacrificed enough" for this war? Well, sounds to me like we finally have some evidence that that is not the case (Cain's ridiculous train car story), and now they're snivelling because we ARE "sacrificing" enough. Cain, just 'cause the Philly Inquirer something, doesn't make it true. I repeat my assertion: there is a world market for steel. There are producers and suppliers literally everywhere on the planet. There is steel to be had. One company's supplier may have shifted production to meet military demand in the US. So? Find another supplier. When have you heard of a gov't contractor who did NOT have a rationalization ready for why a deadline had not been met? Hey, Cain? Your post WOULD have made sense, but, darn the luck! the US government has cornered the market on electrons, so you didn't have enough left to get to the part that was not logically vacant...
I have been reading both Cain's remarks and can only conclude there are 2 distinct entities...now if they both reside in one or two bodies is still up for grabs....:-)
No, RCR, bragging that the surge is working like boasting, "Hey, although I WAS dumb enough to try to pull out a win without enough players, I did FINALLY realize that that was stupid, and put enough guys in the game to win it!" See, that's different, not like what you said, which was just a complete disconnect from anything like a workable analogy. Always happy to help :)
baroness tries to impress us with her families military service, yet she herself failed to serve. somewhat duplicitous, no?
John Smith, sorry dude, wrong war, wrong time and wrong place.I agree, we need to finish the job, but what terrible waste of our troops and dollars.
Again, I'm done trying to convince those with BDS that there was any merit to the Iraq war. The only question is: what do we do NOW? Leaving aside how we got here, looking at the situation as it stands, what is the best thing for our nation & the world? Obama says, "all troops home immediately." I disagree.
The United States military occupation of Iraq is PART OF THE PROBLEM not part of the solution. As long as a foreign power occupies Iraq & Afghanistan fighting will continue - forever or until Jesus comes again whichever is first. Afghans have NEVER been subdued by a foreign occupier in 2,500 years going back to Alexander the Great. Their fierce warrior spirit is legendary. Soviet veterans of the Afghan war warned us. "These people know how to die. They die with their eyes open looking at you." Baghdad has been sacked at least 19 times in history but no foreign ruler has ever successfully administered a government in Iraq. IT JUST AIN'T IN THE CARDS, johnsmith. The pretexts for the U.S. invasion of Iraq were false. The entire Arab & Muslim population is outraged over this injustice. Our actions helped polarize formerly secular societies like Iraq & opened the door for Islamic fundamentalists who did not have power or influence in Iraq before the U.S. invasion. The best move is to call a regional peace conference. Invite Russia & China too. United States should fully fund a reconstruction fund for Iraq, leave Iraq to Iraqis, and condition release of funds on cessation of violence.
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