Science revises theories, while Bible rests upon unchanging truths

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I would like to respond to Johnnie Poole's false remarks about those with "faith-based" religion ("Cartoon represented flat earth society, Aug. 23).

"Science" does adapt to new information and changes its text books every five to 10 years because new evidence does not always support their theory. The Bible has remained the same for some 3,000 years because it is truth, and truth does not change.

I might add,science does not change either; only the theories. The Bible does not teach that the earth is flat;Bible believers have always known that the earth was round because in the book of Isaiah, chapter 40, verse 22 it speaks of the "circle of the earth."

Many years ago, medical scientist believed different races had different blood. The Bible states in Acts 17: 26: "that God made of one blood all nations of men." At one time doctors drained blood from their patients, thinking it would help them;but the Bible says in Leviticus 17 11: "... the life of the flesh is in the blood."In Job 26: 7 the Bible speaks of gravity; the emptiness ofspace, and declares: "He hangeth the earth upon nothing."

I am 84 years old, and I can remember my science teacher talking in class one day about a man who believed all matter was made of atoms - and that she was beginning to believe he was right. In the Book of Hebrews 11: 3 God speaks of the atom: "so that the things that are seen were not made of things which do appear."

No, the Bible does not need to change or adapt in this changing world; it is theanchor we need in our lives.

Gilbert Ward, Evans

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jade
12
Points
jade 08/26/07 - 03:03 am
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0
Mr. Ward, those who wrote the

Mr. Ward, those who wrote the Bible had no knowledge of science as we know it today. The verses you cite can be interpreted any number of ways, although I must give you credit for creativity. Also, you start out by trying to discredit science by pointing out how its theories are not immutable, which is quite true, but then you go on to try to prove the opposite using your interpretation of scripture as a basis. If the Bible is truth (a textbook example of circular reasoning, btw), and truth is immutable, then the science the Bible supposedly contains must also be immutable - but this contradicts your initial assertion about the shortcomings of scientific theory. Science and scientifc theory are the same - not sure i understand the attempt to separate them.

GACopperhead
6
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GACopperhead 08/26/07 - 06:54 am
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The Bible reflects moral

The Bible reflects moral truth, but Christians DID NOT always believe that the earth was round. It was the Church that prohibited the idea that the world was round, or that it wasn't the center of the universe.
There can be a unity of faith and science in creation, but there has to be the recognition that we humans are imperfect and that even with absolute faith in the Bible, we still only imperfectly know God or His will. When we become arrogant as scientists or as the religious, and believe that we know it all, that is when we stop growing in knowledge or faith.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 08/26/07 - 07:09 am
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Science is man's attempt to

Science is man's attempt to understand the world (universe) around us. The scientific method has been used to advance that cause. I don't understand what the bible has to do with it. You could consider it nonoverlapping majesterial in nature. It is all perception, but it helps to actually perceive. I would recommend everyone picking up a basic biology book and bible and read them.

ldsmith1
1
Points
ldsmith1 08/26/07 - 07:57 am
0
0
Yes, Bizarro, I think you are

Yes, Bizarro, I think you are correct when you say that ,"science is man's attempt to understand the universe around us." If you have concluded, as I have, that the universe has been brilliantly and divinely designed, then science is also a way of understanding more about the greatness of the Creator. That is where the connection to the Bible comes in.

avidreader
3222
Points
avidreader 08/26/07 - 08:37 am
0
0
The Old Testement of the

The Old Testement of the Bible makes many references to acts that are mortal sins, including "eating of the cloven hoof". I do not know where in the New Testement this changed, but many Biblical scholars have told me that as time evolved, and Jews and Christians were better defined, the "rules" changed. Mr. Ward states,"The Bible has remained the same for 3000 years because it is truth, and the truth does not change." Sure it does.

patriciathomas
42
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patriciathomas 08/26/07 - 08:47 am
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Educator2, relative truth

Educator2, relative truth always changes. Truth does not. Copperhead, the church denied certain truths, the bible didn't. jade, maybe you should change your display name to jaded.

The Knave
24
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The Knave 08/26/07 - 10:21 am
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How's this for a Bible

How's this for a Bible "truth" that hasn't changed? -- According to the Bible's "creation story," a god-man created the cosmos 1000 years after the Sumerian's invented glue, and 2500 years after the Babylonians and Sumerians learned how to brew beer. And one of my favorite Bible "truths" is Deut. 13:7-,in which the god-man most clearly instructs that children and adults are to be stoned to death for heresy, should they fail to salute all of the god-man's rules: "...you must show him no pity, you must not spare him or conceal his guilt. No, you must kill him, your hand must strike the first blow in putting him to death and the hands of the rest of the people following. You must stone him to death, since he has tried to divert you from Yahweh your God." And, don't you just love the god-man's rules regarding treatment of slaves: There are only four legal ways to get slaves. They may be purchased (Leviticus 25:44-46), captured in war (Numbers 31:32-35; Deuteronomy 21:10-14), enslaved as punishment for theft (Exodus 22:1-3), or enslaved to pay off debts (Leviticus 25:39; Exodus 21:7). Jesus is recorded to have said on many occasions that every aspect of the OT law is in effect.

DrGunby68
1
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DrGunby68 08/26/07 - 10:58 am
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0
Mr. Ward is old...leave him

Mr. Ward is old...leave him alone. Don't we have bigger fish to fry. I'm a believer. I'm also a social scientist. The understanding that faith and science can and do coexist is not something that everyone can wrap their brain around. Don't make them hurt themselves thinking about it.

lord griggs1947
0
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lord griggs1947 08/26/07 - 11:34 am
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Only on the internet where

Only on the internet where people expect challenges, do I challenge believers.The Bible refers to a flat earth; the verses about a circle refer to Earth being shaped like a flat circle! My fellow skeptic the Knave are certainly right about the Bible in that Yeshua flatly stated that not one iota of the law could be changed and that it commanded hateful matters.Mere ignoranct men of yore just made it up as historians and archaeologists have found out.Now it behooves each of us to try to use real facts and reason when we try to do morality. Like science, it is provisional and debatable. It is provisional. In neither do we have the Truth,just provisional truth. Look how the secular world got religions to change morality.Rather than we live off religious morality, it is the inverse: when the religious do morality,using real facts and reason, they use our humanist one. We see the effects of actions on people,other animals and the enviornment to determine right and wrong.We use Bentham's pleasure- pain principle to do the golden and silver rules. Morality derived from our primate heritage that we refine. I favor liberal values and others conservative ones; we try to come to a consensus

grouse
1635
Points
grouse 08/26/07 - 12:16 pm
0
0
It's a shame that in his 84
Unpublished

It's a shame that in his 84 years, Mr. Ward hasn't learned anything.

noctur55
1
Points
noctur55 08/26/07 - 12:33 pm
0
0
creation myths come and go,

creation myths come and go, science always advances.

curly123053
4671
Points
curly123053 08/26/07 - 02:01 pm
0
0
The Holy Bible is the

The Holy Bible is the Beginning and the End....the Alpha and Omega....and it will NEVER change. Society may change.....science may change....what we perceive to be normal today may change years in the future.....but the Holy Bible will NEVER change. The Holy Bible will be the same past the "End of time" !

GACopperhead
6
Points
GACopperhead 08/26/07 - 02:32 pm
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Ms. Thomas, why must you

Ms. Thomas, why must you always end up dealing in insults?

pofwe
5
Points
pofwe 08/26/07 - 02:33 pm
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Educ2, according to you the

Educ2, according to you the "rules changed," "the WORD" remains the same as always. Psalm 14:1; The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. ... Mr. Ward, thank-you for your letter, You know your Bible! Sir. Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Bizarro
13
Points
Bizarro 08/26/07 - 02:36 pm
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It is obvious that some

It is obvious that some people see their hope for the future in science and others in their faith. Both seem to have their flaws. In either case it an opinion or belief of the individual-your choice. It is like abotion-your choice. Seems some are closed minded about the others choices.

bone
23
Points
bone 08/26/07 - 03:01 pm
0
0
this sort of discussion is

this sort of discussion is always good for a laugh. neither side wishes to acknowledge any fallacy in their argument. why bother arguing about it? if you believe in the Bible, good for you. if you believe in science, good for you.

patriciathomas
42
Points
patriciathomas 08/26/07 - 03:29 pm
0
0
bone, there were plenty of

bone, there were plenty of pointless comments still to be made. you've ruined a full afternoon with you wet blanket comment. thank you.

jade
12
Points
jade 08/26/07 - 03:30 pm
0
0
where is the fallacy in

where is the fallacy in saying that the Bible is not based on scientific principles? i'm not sure i buy it when people try to reconcile faith and science. either you believe that God created the world in 6 days, or you believe in evolution. you can't have it both ways. i choose to put my faith in science. it may be imperfect, but it is much better than what the Bible has to offer.

jade
12
Points
jade 08/26/07 - 03:31 pm
0
0
lol. he didn't quite ruin it

lol. he didn't quite ruin it yet.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 08/26/07 - 03:52 pm
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I see some straw man

I see some straw man arguments arising which can go on and on pointlessly. A full afternoon and then some.

gagirl40
113
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gagirl40 08/26/07 - 04:09 pm
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What I will never understand

What I will never understand is how religious people pick and choose which parts of the bible to take as sacred. Or how they try to explain away things like slavery or 600 year old men in the Bible. They claim the Bible isn't literal, yet they use certain verses literally to condemn others. Sometimes they try to rationalize things by claiming the Old Testament doesn't matter because the New Testament supersedes it. If it doesn't matter why was it left in there? The ten commandments were supposedly written as God's sacred LAWS, however somewhere along the way those have become trivial, and others have been practically made up and put forth as more important.. God told Moses, these were the laws of the Lord, and there is only one way into the kingdom of God and that is to follow all of the commandments. My question is, why has abortion and homosexuality taken precedent over the laws God gave Moses? Don't you think if God thought homosexuality and abortion were worse than, say, stealing He would have found room in the Big Ten somewhere? And since God supposedly knows all - past, present and future- wouldn't He have foreseen all of this and been ready for it?

gagirl40
113
Points
gagirl40 08/26/07 - 04:32 pm
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Although I choose to believe

Although I choose to believe in God, I know there is no way to prove His existence. People err when they claim the Bible is "factual". They "believe" it IS, but it can't be proven. Religion is faith. And faith is belief not based on proof. You can use the Bible as a guide to how you live your life, how you treat other people, or how you raise your children. But you CAN'T use the Bible as a source of factual evidence or proof of anything. Especially things Scientific, political or governmental. Scientific theories can be proven or disproved, God can't be. In that I mean, there is no proof He exists, yet, there is no proof He doesn't.

Bizarro
13
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Bizarro 08/26/07 - 05:01 pm
0
0
There is religion and faith,

There is religion and faith, and then there is the "experience" of God. I think people who have the "experience" or relationship or whatever you would call it are a different breed than those who simply were indoctrinated into a belief. Many are "evidence" driven folk who have their evidence as experience. The people who first saw the mythical mountain gorilla could only relay their experience as real. It took science a while to prove it. Not that I'm saying that science will prove the existence of God, but science is not in the "prove" business but supporting evidence business.

t of i
25
Points
t of i 08/26/07 - 05:25 pm
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0
How about this, the Bible is

How about this, the Bible is a devinely inpired allegorical history. After all, it was not on the very first day that God created the way we reckon days. I am more comfortable reconciling scientific study with religion and man's historical interpretatiton of religion than pitting one against the other. They peacefully coexist for me. As do all peaceful religions of the world. I have always been an Episcopalian and I married one. If you ask me if I believe a devout worshiper of another religion who behaved throughout his life according to the principles we Christians are taught that because he did not accept Christ, that he will not go "heaven," his idea of heaven, or ours, I would say a resounding NO. If you want to take the Bible word for word, that's find with me because that is what works for you. That it was you believe and what makes you feel right. I gleefully acknowledge your right to do that. But allow us who take a broader interpretation and reconcile it to be able to do the same. We do not have to be at war.

bone
23
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bone 08/26/07 - 05:53 pm
0
0
let me remoisten the blanket:

let me remoisten the blanket: each side is correct. now go outside and play nice.

t of i
25
Points
t of i 08/26/07 - 05:57 pm
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Bone, do you need to throw a

Bone, do you need to throw a wet blanket on me?

DrGunby68
1
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DrGunby68 08/26/07 - 06:04 pm
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Dang TI...we are fellow

Dang TI...we are fellow Episcopalian. I agree almost 100% with you and GAGirl. The E-church is all about moderation and the doctrine of the mean.

WorriedAboutOurFuture
16
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WorriedAboutOurFuture 08/26/07 - 06:30 pm
0
0
People do the best they can

People do the best they can with Scripture, to understand what is meant. Sometime we're wrong, sometimes we're right. The Catholic Church and many other denominations do not base all doctrine of faith only upon the Holy Bible. Others, not unlike the Islamic position on the Q'oran, believe there is nothing but the Bible to rely upon. That leads to some pretty serious problems when there is disagreement on translation or interpretation, even among scholars. However, most Christians believe that more accurate translations and better understanding of the world and universe has caused an ever growing understanding of Scripture, especially of many obscure or seemingly contradictory parts of what is written. The discoveries of science have brought illumination to Scripture and vise versa, although I'm certain that statement will draw fire from both extremes on this false dichotomy. (It's that good old Episcopal upbringing that produces such broadmindedness, right TofI?)

The_Last_Word
2
Points
The_Last_Word 08/26/07 - 06:51 pm
0
0
Mr. Ward, at 84 I hope I am

Mr. Ward, at 84 I hope I am as wise and as succinct as you are. Thank you for sharing these points from the Bible. It sure helps us to understand that while the Bible was not intended to be a science textbook, it was written (God-breathed) by a God who created the world and knows "science" better than scientists. As the letter writers in many cases have pointed out, the Bible is also not meant for unbelievers but is spiritually discerned. I think God must laugh at our "brilliance" some days. In fact He says about some: "Thinking themselves wise, they became fools." You have done quite a service here and helped us to think about the Bible in a way that we rarely do. May God bless you and give you many more years of joy!

The_Last_Word
2
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The_Last_Word 08/26/07 - 07:09 pm
0
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GA Copperhead, Your quote:

GA Copperhead, Your quote: "Christians DID NOT always believe that the earth was round. It was the Church that prohibited the idea that the world was round, or that it wasn't the center of the universe." Is a myth. There were a few of the early church fathers who held to the idea of a flat earth (e.g., Lactantius & Cosmas Indicopleustes) but the vast majority held to a spherical earth. The early fathers knew more about the Bible in many cases than we do and certaily knew about Isaiah 40:22. Christiananswers.net reports, "In 1828, American writer Washington Irving (author of Rip Van Winkle) published a book entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. It was a mixture of fact and fiction. . . Its theme was the victory of a lone believer in a spherical Earth over a united front of Bible-quoting, superstitious ignoramuses, convinced the Earth was flat." It was during the time of Darwin that "scientists" found it necessary to combat Bible-believers and helped make the myth of the early church flat-earthers a reality. It just goes to show you that if you tell a lie long enough and loud enough - it becomes "truth". An apology to Mr. Ward and Believers in general is expected.

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