No crime committed in Plame flap

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In his 2003 State of the Union address, President Bush mentioned that the Iraqi regime had tried to purchase yellowcake uranium from Africa. This intelligence information was obtained from British sources, and our own intelligence community affirmed its validity before the speech. Niger's former minister of mines and that nation's president at that time admitted being approached by an Iraqi trade delegation in one instance and an Algerian businessman representing the Iraqis at another time, inquiring about purchase of yellowcake uranium.

Democrats however, said it was not so, made loud noises about it, and this became the basis for their "Bush lied" assertion. Valerie Plame managed to get her husband, Joe Wilson, sent to Niger to fact-find about the alleged uranium purchase. He conducted perfunctory inquiries and returned with the predetermined conclusion that the alleged attempt to purchase uranium was a fabrication, created by Bush to justify his going to war in Iraq. He then claimed his wife's role as a CIA agent had been made public to punish him for his findings.

When special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald undertook the Plame leak investigation, he knew within a week that it was Undersecretary of State Richard Armitage who, months before, had mentioned Valerie Plame's name as a CIA employee to journalist Robert Novak. Yet Fitzgerald kept silent and continued the investigation for three more years at taxpayers' expense, all in an apparent effort to get somebody, hopefully Vice President Dick Cheney and/or Karl Rove!

What they got was Lewis Libby, a little man in the scheme of things, on a trumped-up charge in an investigation that could have and should have been closed within a week! Lewis Libby, by presidential action, has now been freed from the possibility of political confinement. Armitage was never charged because no crime had been committed!

Robert Smock, Hephzibah

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intheknow
16
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intheknow 07/24/07 - 05:53 am
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I guess this Smock person,

I guess this Smock person, has a standing space in the Chronicle. Let me try to educate him just a little. Upon employment with the Agency, everyone must sign a CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT. This agreement stays with you, up to 50 years AFTER, you leave the Agency. Now, I will give you the fact, that Scooter was not an Agency employee, however I am more than certain, he held at least a Secret Clearance. An employee of the Agency is informed that ANY, information released to the media, must be reviewed by the MEDIA branch of the Agency, so that it might be sanitized. The reason being, so that no sensitive information is accidently release, that might compromise the security of this Country, Agency or a fellow employee. The fact that Plame was or was not covert DOES NOT MATTER. by being " OUTTED", her life and the lives of her family and friends, were placed in jeopardy. Any past contact she may have had while covert, would be looked into by other governments. Placing those people and their families at risk. But Smock why would I expect you to give a dang, because you can sit back from the safety of your home and comment on something, you do not know a thing about.

bone
23
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bone 07/24/07 - 06:54 am
0
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i, hope, you, lose, your,

i, hope, you, lose, your, comma, key, intheknow.

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 07/24/07 - 07:01 am
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Robert Smock is sadly

Robert Smock is sadly misinformed about yellowcake from Niger & those famous 16 words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address, or Mr. Smock is intentionally passing DISINFORMATION to a gullible public. Here are THE FACTS Mr. Smock. In October 2002, the CIA informed President Bush that the rumor that Saddam Hussein sought low-grade yellowcake uranium ore from Niger in Africa was UNRELIABLE. (BTW, Saddam had no facilities to enrich the uranium - like high speed centrifuges - plus he already had tons of yellowcake ore.) It was almost immediately determined that the bogus intelligence on this nonexistent sale was generated by a former Italian intelligence agent who sold forged documents FOR PROFIT. Nevertheless Messers. Bush & Cheney were so hot to go to war with Saddam (the Downing Street memo makes it clear they had already decided this by summer 2002 if not earlier) they were not going to let the truth get in the way of their rush to war in Iraq. Bush removed the yellowcake from Niger claim from that October speech, but by Jan 2003 it mysteriously reappeared in his SOTU address this time claiming British intelligence had learned it. ORCHESTRATED DISINFORMATION!

patriciathomas
42
Points
patriciathomas 07/24/07 - 07:13 am
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Mr Smock, you should feel

Mr Smock, you should feel honored. If Cain disagrees with you, you can rest assured you're probably right on target. The main thing accomplished by the Plame kerfuffle is that democrats still play the politic game better then anybody. Even with all of the facts out there for everyone to see, they're able to continue the witch hunt, get a "conviction", and trick half of the people following the charade into believing it's meaningful. That's just good politics, but it's certainly nothing to earn them a reward except from the choir.

Its 5oclock somewhere
0
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Its 5oclock somewhere 07/24/07 - 07:26 am
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Sounds like Reprints from

Sounds like Reprints from moveon.org.

johnsmith
9
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johnsmith 07/24/07 - 08:11 am
0
0
intheknow, you need to change

intheknow, you need to change the preposition, so that your name reads "outoftheknow" POTUS could get up in front of the press corps and read out the name and address of every CIA employee if he wanted to. It is the Executive branch that classifies information, and the Executive has complete liberty to DEclassify it when, where and how he wishes. Moving on the revealing operatives' identities, it is true that the CIA places definite, specific restrictions on when and how its employees are permitted to release information, including agents' identities. However, Fitzgerald's did not find evidence that a CIA employee had leaked (thus, the policy you cite is irrelevant), nor did he find evidence that the President had ordered Ms Plame's identity revealed (which he would have had authority to do). In that case (and I know how much you liberals HATE this), it becomes a matter of LAW, not FEELINGS. And the law states that it is illegal to publicize the identity of a covert agent under most circumstances. When you park your personal car outside Langley and your husband is getting published in the NYT, you are not exactly "covert."

johnsmith
9
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johnsmith 07/24/07 - 08:14 am
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And, of course, the rest of

And, of course, the rest of the letter is largely accurate. Libby was not charged with "leaking" Plame's name because A) Fitz already knew who had done that, and B) it would not have been a crime to do so. Libby was convicted of obstruction (perjury?) based, not on any actual facts or hard evidence, but only on the statements of another witness. Now, although we are moving quickly in the direction of thought crimes in this nation (hate crime legislation), don't think that that means that we can actually read people's thoughts. The testimony of a biased reporter in court is not the same as, say, DNA on a dress. Oh, I'm sorry, that was unkind of me...

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 07/24/07 - 08:54 am
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Scooter Libby was headed to

Scooter Libby was headed to prison for 30 months because he lied to a
federal grand jury AND he obstructed justice. The obstruction of
justice conviction in this case means Libby would not tell Special
Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald who ordered him to leak the name and
identity of Valerie Plame Wilson to at least 3 reporters before Novak
published his piece. Libby was going to sit in a cell like a caged bird
who didn't sing while his masters Cheney & Rove roamed free. Bush
rightfully feared that Libby would sing because Libby's layer, Ted
Wells, said his client was not going to take the rap for higher ups.
Bush commutted Libby's prison sentence. It was in effect a pardon for
Cheney and Rove. George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, and others in this
criminal regime deserve to be impeached, tried, convicted, removed from
office, and sentenced to long prison terms for their war crimes. That is the only measure that will save this nation years of unending troubles.

intheknow
16
Points
intheknow 07/24/07 - 09:04 am
0
0
Well JOHNSMITH, I do not know

Well JOHNSMITH, I do not know what you do for a living. But I am willing to bet you any amount , that you are not willing to join the Agency, go covert for even a short period of time, and then have them put your face and name in the paper. I do not give a rat's behind, if the President can reveal employees name, it should not be done. This is not some Television show like 24, this is real life. In real life people die, Does the date January 23, 1993 mean anything to you. And BONE, I will not begin to tell you where to stick your commas.

intheknow
16
Points
intheknow 07/24/07 - 09:15 am
0
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Also tell the families of the

Also tell the families of the 118 stars on the wall, that the President can be so chavalier about their identities.

intheknow
16
Points
intheknow 07/24/07 - 09:24 am
0
0
Ask Frank Darling and Lansing

Ask Frank Darling and Lansing Bennett families about this covert or not covert arguement. Then I would like for you and the BONEs of the world, to go to the BUBBLE or visit the Route 123 Memorial, and the come back with you no harm no foul, attitude about an Agent's name being revealed.

intheknow
16
Points
intheknow 07/24/07 - 09:35 am
0
0
I am going to leave this

I am going to leave this subject alone because it is hard to repress my anger. I have worked over 22 years, as a Protectives Service Agent and hear people say it is not big deal, that an Agency employee's name was leaked. Well what little religion I have left, is about to go away. No PT, BONE, KPC or JOHNSMITH. I am no Rhodes Scholar, nor spelling or grammar champ. I am just a product of the Sunset Holmes projects, that has dedicated 29 years of my life to law enforcement, only to hear and read all of the racist B.S. and name calling that goes back and forth each day. Everywhere I go, I tell people I am from Augusta Georgia. Proud to be from there. Yet it breaks my heart, to hear the hate that is going on there. I am going to take a break from this computer, I am physically and emotionally sick from this topic. Enjoy the freedom that you are taking advantage of. NOW HAVE ALL MY LACK OF PUNCITATION GRAMAR OR WHATEVER. At this moment, I DON'T REALLY GIVE A ....YOU KNOW THE REST.

bone
23
Points
bone 07/24/07 - 09:48 am
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relax, intheknow, i was just

relax, intheknow, i was just kidding. johnsmith really had a great post, don't you think? it is rare that JRHC can't go point by point with someone he disagrees with.

jack
10
Points
jack 07/24/07 - 10:57 am
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Intheknow, after all that

Intheknow, after all that crap you just posted, the confidentiality agreement one signs applies to THAT person who can not talk about the classified aspects of their jobs, who in this case, had already "outed" herself to Joe Wilson by telling him she was a CIA under conver agent before they were even married (read his book). Why has the MSM been so silent on that subject? The whole affair was trumped up by Plame and Wilson to try and embarrass GW Bush, Dick Cheney and the Bush administration. Wilson lied, so nothing he says is believable. I certainly hope Libby receives a full pardon and have so informed President Bush.

jack
10
Points
jack 07/24/07 - 11:07 am
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Intheknow, you don't know

Intheknow, you don't know crap. Plame/Wilson had not been an undercover agent for several years, but a CIA desk jockey at Langley, thus not even covered by the law that makes exposing the names of covert agents against the law. Cain, did you get your info from Dailykook, Moveon.org or Think Liberal (your usual sources of misinformation).

mable8
2
Points
mable8 07/24/07 - 12:10 pm
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0
Robert Smock of Hephzibah:

Robert Smock of Hephzibah: Libby DID lie to the authorities, therefore, a crime was committed. Why are you defending the creep? He got off, thanks to his drinking pal, GWB. If YOU were the one standing in Libby's place, you would be in prison and not at home typing on your computer! Guess it's okay for those in high places to flaunt the laws; the rest of us get buried.

gagirl40
113
Points
gagirl40 07/24/07 - 01:23 pm
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You people will never get it

You people will never get it or refuse to believe it. President Bush himself said it was a crime and promised to fire anyone "ASSOCIATED" with leaking her name. (A promise he didn't keep by the way) After the trial we found out that yes, Armitage did tell Novak about Plame. But we also learned that Rove and Libby were also simultaneously leaking her name to other reporters. Judith Miller, Matt Cooper and Tim Russert, all BEFORE Novak's story about Plame was published. As a matter of fact Novak testified his interview with Armitage was "the last week in June 2003." And Miller testified Libby told her on June 23, 2003, so Miller may have actually known BEFORE Novak, but she didn't write a story on it until after the trial. And for those who think perjury isn't a crime, funny you thought it was a "HIGH CRIME" when Clinton lied about a consensual affair. Enough so you wanted him impeached for it! Now you say it's a "non-issue"? Which is worse lying about sex or outing someone who worked in a CIA division on the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction? You tell me!

gagirl40
113
Points
gagirl40 07/24/07 - 01:44 pm
0
0
And PatriciaThomas, you

And PatriciaThomas, you really have to stop saying democrats are better at "playing the political game" than republicans. It just makes you look ignorant. After having to live with the likes of Karl Rove for the last six plus years, we all know who is the KING of the political game. What he did to John McCain in South Carolina in the 2000 election was ruthless. And the Swift-boaters in the 2004 election, where do you think they came up with that idea? The republicans have Fox News in their back pocket to spread their ideological propaganda to anyone who will listen. And they do the best job in the world, evidenced by the likes of you and others who quote their talking points ad nauseam here every single day! You really need to get some new material because that same old song is getting stale!

charles yonce
0
Points
charles yonce 07/24/07 - 02:23 pm
0
0
good article intheknow.

good article intheknow. forget these gestapo goose steppers.they will die for trash like their criminal prez and vp,let them.let's see what happens if one of them reveals the name of an agent,they will never be seen again. she told her husband before they were married? did he tell anyone else? embarrass this administration? the joke of the week! they are disgusting and almost everyone wants them to go away, to prison where they belong!

johnsmith
9
Points
johnsmith 07/24/07 - 04:11 pm
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0
intheknow, not only are you

intheknow, not only are you not "intheknow," but you don't even read what others write when you "respond." You are making my points for me, AFTER you reveal that (naturally) you have no idea what I may or may not have done for a living in the past. My whole point was that people don't go to jail for bad ideas. They go to jail for breaking the law, and there was no law broken with respect to revealing Plame's identity. Don't worry, you are in good company, as Cain suffers from the same disease. Since it has been reported ad nauseum and repeated likewise in this forum that Armitage revealed Plame's ID, and that Fitz knew that in week one of his "investigation," directly contradicting Cain's assertion that "Libby would not tell Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald who ordered him to leak the name." Again, I could go into court and assert that Cain likes doo-doo sandwiches, and a jury could even believe me, but that doesn't make it _true_, it just means that the jury believed me. The only charges on which Libby was convicted stemmed from him disagreeing with other witnesses, not from any concrete evidence whatsoever, which is something to which Cain & co. have never responded.

johnsmith
9
Points
johnsmith 07/24/07 - 04:17 pm
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intheknow, after reading down

intheknow, after reading down a few more of your posts, I see this: "I am going to leave this subject alone because it is hard to repress my anger." That's probably wise. You're going off like a roman candle in a powder mag, trying to impress everyone with how much you care because of your past experiences, and that impedes you from reading, comprehending, processing, or even engaging in rational thought. Not sure how many times you are going to lament the fact that Libby is going to jail for "leaking Plame's name," when that's not what he was convicted of. You _claim_ to have worked PS for 22 years. Ok, know-it-all, of the people with whom you worked who were COVERT (and thus would have been covered by the law covering covert agents, and thus would have been an impetus for an investigation like Fitz's), how many drove their private vehicle, registered in their own name, to Langley and parked it visibly outside the building? How many of them had spouses who wrote op-ed pieces in the NYT and otherwise called the entire universe's attention to themselves? I'm asking about the covert folks, here, not analysts. The answer is zero, and you know it, and even if you do not, I do.

johnsmith
9
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johnsmith 07/24/07 - 04:25 pm
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gagirl, you are another who

gagirl, you are another who can't read. I believe that perjury is a crime; I don't believe that Libby committed perjury. By your own account, Judith Miller, Matt Cooper and Tim Russert testified that Libby said X on date X. I will believe just about anyone on the planet before I believe any of them; Libby has more credibility than any of the "journalists" who testified. I know, though, it's my poor little underpowered conservative brain again--I want _proof_, evidence, not allegations. I'm not impressed with "the seriousness of the charges," because anyone can be charged with anything. I'm not impressed with what a biased "witness" says, and I'm not impressed with a verdict handed down by a jury that, immediately after the trial, acknowledged that they only found Libby guilty because they thought _someone_ should "pay." Ask any cop, any district attorney going into trial, what kind of evidence actually _matters_, and it's not some witness with a ridiculous story, it's hard evidence, documentation, that is reliable and actually tells a story. Heck, y'all obviously spend a lot of time watching tv, take in a csi episode every now and then :)

patriciathomas
42
Points
patriciathomas 07/24/07 - 04:43 pm
0
0
gaygirl, thank you for

gaygirl, thank you for thinking I'm ignorant. I would never like to espouse anything that you would agree with and I would never like to be seen agreeing with the left wing hype. I also would never like to have anything to do with those that perpetuate the socialist ideals. The myrmidon spin that is so popular with you lefties is just another joke to informed people. Once again, Thank you.

CoastalDawg
125
Points
CoastalDawg 07/24/07 - 08:02 pm
0
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Some time ago publicly

Some time ago publicly released information stated that Valerie Plame was a known employee of the CIA in Washington, D.C. whose checks identified her as such. She was not a covert operative when this supposed "crime" took place. No crime has ever been established in that supposed "leak" - Scooter Libby took the fall because he supposedly lied about the matter. His sentence was determined by the president to have been too harsh, especially for non crime, so the president commuted his sentence. Some of our people in congress are guilty of far worse things than that. Can we have them tried for lying in campaigns, etc?

intheknow
16
Points
intheknow 07/25/07 - 03:45 am
0
0
JOHNSMITH, The only KNOW IT

JOHNSMITH, The only KNOW IT ALL seems to be you. I do not give a damn, whether you believe that a crime was commited or not. Show me one time that I mentioned that Scooter committed a crime. The people that said he did was on that Federal Jury and the Judge that sentenced him. No, you can sit back on your azz and comment on something that you have read, or heard that's your right, I donot have to prove a thing to you or those like you. You have your mind made up and a certified letter from heaven will not change it. You are a hopeless case. You think because you can write long winded B.S. that it makes you an expert of that topic. Not once did I said that President Bush DID NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO GET INVOLVED WITH THIS CASE. The problem I have is that NO Agency employee's name, be they COVERT or NOT COVERT, should be made public. You cannot release the name of an employee of Mc Donald's due to Privacy laws, but you think it is okay to release the names of these employee. You are a waste of time. If you do not understand the problem of making these names public.

gagirl40
113
Points
gagirl40 07/25/07 - 11:55 am
0
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JohnSmith, you said, "Libby

JohnSmith, you said, "Libby has more credibility than any of the "journalists" who testified." Wow, now you aren't going to believe a journalist who has been accused of being a "shill of the Bush administration?" Have you forgotten Miller was the one who wrote all the stories that were FAVORABLE to the administration's pro-war positions prior to the Iraq war? And even afterwards she was the one claiming WMD's and mobile chemical labs WERE found? But since she told the truth and had evidence Libby told her Wilson's wife was a covert CIA operative BEFORE Novak's article THAT'S when she all of a sudden becomes incredible? Hysterical! And Valerie Plame didn't use her married name at work, she WAS covert and went by Plame instead of Wilson. She held what is known as "non-official cover" status. Meaning, if she got caught she was basically on her own. So her outing was much more serious than outing someone with "official cover". But I don't know why I waste my time, you people use "proof by assertion", because enough right-wing nuts have said she wasn't covert enough times you believe it. CIA officials have testified she was covert, but hey, what do they know right?

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