Mention the Grammy Awards and, inevitably, someone will bring up Milli Vanilli.
Lip-syncing is one thing, but the Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences might never live down giving the 1990 Album of the Year Grammy to two guys who weren't even in the studio when their album was recorded.
Music fans were more disturbed when Jethro Tull won Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance in 1988.
Did the awards ever have the chance of becoming a complete joke, of losing all credibility?
"Oh God, no," says Melinda Newman, the West Coast bureau chief for Billboard magazine. "They're given in 100-some categories. For people to take three or four examples over the life of the Grammys and say, 'Wow, this really shows the Grammys are no longer relevant or a joke,' is so far beyond the point.
"Obviously, some red flags have gone up that were tremendous embarrassments for the academy. But to say that it has devalued the Grammys or made them not worth it, I'd like to find one person who gives it back because Milli Vanilli won one," Ms. Newman says.
The lip-syncing scandal "was an embarrassment.
"But they then said, 'OK, what do we do to make sure that doesn't happen again?' When Jethro Tull won for best heavy metal, they said, 'What do we do to get more in line?'"
Years of working with the process paid off. When the Grammys are presented tonight, there's nothing that's going to be an embarrassment. With a revamped nominating process, artists that have been overlooked in past years (Elvis Costello, Prince) and talented newcomers (Kanye West, Black Eyed Peas) get their due.
"Sure, there were some years where you'd wonder how someone got a nomination. But it could also be where you look at it and say no one has heard of this album. There are five critics who loved it, therefore it got a nomination," Ms. Newman says.
Not anymore. In many categories it's now a two-tiered process for an artist to get nominated, especially the four biggest awards - song, record and album of the year, and best new artist.
In the past, whoever got the most votes from the entire voting body of the academy - which includes artists, producers, industry insiders, etc. - ended up nominated, which is why popular yet shlocky music by the likes of Christopher Cross (five Grammys in 1980) made huge splashes.
Now the entire body votes, but those results go to a national review committee, which decides who will be nominated.
"They listen to everything. Every track. Everything. They vote confidentially in this committee," says Diane Theriot, the senior vice president of awards for the Grammys.