Consider the Fair Tax

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I agree with Jim Irish’s July 31 letter “Agencies are attack dogs,” and this comment: “The solution to the menace of the IRS is not to reform the agency but to dismantle it brick by brick and replace it with a Fair Tax.”

There is so much corruption with this agency, and it has been going on for so long, that the best thing to do is abolish it. The Fair Tax is a good solution.

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Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 05:56 am
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Coming soon. Opponents of

Coming soon. Opponents of the fair tax that can give not one single fact to back up why they oppose it. They simply say that what is proposed is not true, and they are right. My opinion is that those who oppose the fair tax, really like the successful being punished and paying more, and they, themselves, don't want to pay their fair share.

deestafford
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deestafford 08/13/14 - 06:09 am
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If i had to identify one thing..

If I had to identify one thing that the liberals all have in common, that would be ignorance on the FairTax. Anytime one mentions it they go screaming that it will increase the cost of everything by 30% and it's just not true. Just wait. They'll come along.

They don't understand the prebate or why food and all retail services are taxed.

They don't understand imbedded taxes.

They don't understand how it will be "fair".

They don't understand how it will bring hundreds, if not thousands of overseas companies to the US.

They don't understand how it will eliminate the IRS gestapo as we know it.

They don't understand how it will be better for the lower income people.

They don't understand that it's designed to be revenue neutral.

They don't understand how it will eliminate the power that the current system gives the politicians; although, the politicians do.

They don't understand there are two excellent books and a website they can go to to lessen their ignorance.

Other than that...they are really "smart" when it comes to the FairTax.

curly123053
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curly123053 08/13/14 - 08:31 am
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FairTax.

I have been a FairTax activist since Bush was president and both houses of congress were Republican. The fact that US House Bill 25 never got a hearing with the Republicans in control is proof that this is a nonpartisan bill. It gives you and me, the average taxpayers ultimate control over our taxes.
The FairTax --
1. Ends the income tax. You take home your entire paycheck.
2. You only pay taxes on new products.
3. No sales taxes on used products(cars, appliances, etc)
4. Every taxpayer gets a monthly check at the 1st of every month from
the US Treasury for costs up to the poverty level.
5. Consumption tax of 23% at the register for all new products.
6. All items on store shelves drop by 23% when the FairTax becomes
law. Therefore we are paying the same prices under the FairTax as
you are now.
7. Instead of about 50% of taxpayers contributing to the treasury to
cover for the 100% of the population there will be 100% of the
population contributing to the treasury.
8. The FairTax will make Social Security solvent and replenish the funds
needed for Medicare and other government services.
9. All corporate and payroll taxes end resulting in a surge of jobs coming
back to America along with increases in the hourly pay for all workers.
10. The IRS will be put out of business. No more government favors to
any groups, lobbyists, or friends of any politician.
11. No more taxes on investments. What we earn in savings will be
100% our investments to keep and spend as we see fit.
12. Approximately 10 to 15% more spending money per month, and with the monthly prebates everyone gets the poor will basically be untaxed.
If anyone wants to add to the benefits you are welcome to do so. Go to
www.fairtax.org for any info on the FairTax Amendment.

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 08/13/14 - 08:34 am
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There are 2 books written by

There are 2 books written by pro-"Fair" Tax supporters and a web site that is 100% pro fair thax with research provided by themselves, and referenced to often, by themselves. Where they use other research, they often misreresent it. Usually the response to all questions is the equivalent of, "We say so.".

There is a prebate of $447 per month for a couple for 2014 (per their website) and then and endless $78 per month per child prebate. Do children pay taxes? Why should people who choose to have 12 kids receive an extra $936 per month? Understand it? Sure we do. It makes it sound better to sell you a bill of goods. The very poor may even come out ok and break about even. Not so everyone else except the very wealthy.

All food and services ARE taxed, as well as all new products like clothes medicines (be sure that insurance companies won't eat the 30¢ per dollar tax on the full price of the prescription, the website nowhere says whether you pay tax on just the co-pay of say $4.00 or the real price, say $150.00 of the drug) at 30¢ on the dollar (and you just killed the construction industry because who in their right mind would pay $195,000 for a new $150,000 house when they could get a slightly used $195,000 house for less than that with no 30% taxes added?). You spend $1.00, you pay $1.30. Everything anyone or any business performs is a service. A doctors visit, a hospital stay, a haircut, the interest on you credit card, the interest on your home mortagage, the kid mowing your lawn (unless he's a tax cheat, he's supposed to collect 30¢ on the dollar from you). Why do they tax these? Because they have to to bring in enough money for this scam to work.

The "imbedded (sic)" taxes. this is where it gets good. They try to claim that there's so much tax embedded in the price of goods that prices will magically drop by just the same amount taxes go up (isn't that convenient?) so you really break even. Sort of like a perpetual motion machine. This is also where they play with other people's research and get it totally WRONG! The embedded amount that Linder either lied before Congress in his testimony, or had no clue what he was talking about (with Linder it's a 50/50 bet) covered federal, STATE, AND LOCAL costs, and the "Fair" tax doesn't touch 2 of those. Also, they failed to disclose that the research they used for this little tidbit said that prices "may" drop (and not nearly by the made up amount given by the "Fair" Tax liars, if AND ONLY IF, workers continued to receive their current net paycheck. As always, the magical perpetual motion machine doesn't work.

How it will be "fair"? It will shift the tax burden to the middle class (or what's left of it) and working class and they'll be taxed on 100% of their incomes, yet let the ultra-wealthy grow their riches completely untaxed and only be taxed on a fraction of their incomes. If that's your definition of fair, then so be it.

It will bring companies to the US? Possibly. That's speculation, since they've written the tax code themselves (or via their lobbyists) and are current hiding trillions offshore, paying around 12.6% in taxes now (some very profitable corporations have had years where they paid zero), have factories located where they can pay workers pennies on the dollars compared to US workers, and definitely have no sense of patriotism, why would this encourage them to return?

Will eliminate the IRS? Oh goody, we'll be on the honor system. Your joking on this one right? Surely you don't think there's not a little something in there to insure enforement do you?
"There shall be in the Department of the Treasury a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax in those States where it is required pursuant to section 404, and to discharge other Federal duties and powers relating to the national sales tax (including those required by sections 402, 403, and 405). The Office of Revenue Allocation shall be within the Sales Tax Bureau."
IRS=Sales Tax Bureau. Neil Boortz,""We envision a department of the Treasury to deal with Internet and catalog sales, with stiff penalties for those selling into our communities who do not abide by the law." So we change the name. It's still a tax enforcement agency that doles out "stiff penalties" according to the guy who wrote the book. Hang on to your receipts to show you paid your 30% for every good and service. Make sure you get one from little Timmy down the street when he mows your lawn too.

Lower income addressed above.

Revenue neutral. Great. we started 2 wars in the 2000's. Wars ain't cheap. Revenue neutral means that 30% tax could go to a 35%, 40%, 45%, 50% tax, or higher.

Power to the politicians? All is does is change the way revenue comes in, and does it by changing the tax code to a regressive one. There's not a dang thing that keeps them from adding a goody here and there for a big donor, or keeping oil subsidies, or anything else. All it does is add the sales tax and get rid of Social Security and Medicare taxes (around 1/3 of our revenue right there), withholding taxes, corporate taxes, gift taxes, estate taxes, capital gains taxes (taxes rich people pay). We have to amend the Constitution to repeal the income tax. Nothing about excise taxes so booze, cigarettes, and gasoline, will still be taxed and have 30% tacked on.

2 joke books and a biased and joke of a website.

Those of us who've studied it and don't believe everything Neil Boortz and John Linder say without question do get it, and aren't the ones who are ignorant. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge about something. Only checking one point of view can leave one that way. Try Mises, Forbes, and some other sites and you'll see just what a scam this thing really is. Mises especially destroys it with fact after fact after fact and points out their lies. Facts are something the "Fair" Tax people are extremely short on.

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 08/13/14 - 08:37 am
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And if a frog had wings it

And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its rear end when it hopped.

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 08/13/14 - 08:38 am
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It's 30% and you do NOT get

It's 30% and you do NOT get to keep your whole paycheck, even Boortz backed off on that. That's why this thing is such a scam.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 08:42 am
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Hmmmm....so those who did the

Hmmmm....so those who did the planning and research saying so is bad.......Bodhistechfan saying so is good? Seems legit. I will thank you Bod, for making my first post today 100% confirmed.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 08:44 am
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"The very poor may even come

"The very poor may even come out ok and break about even. Not so everyone else except the very wealthy."

A statement supported by no fact other than your own wealth envy......"we must punish those who are successful! We must make the poor prosperous by making the prosperous poor!" Karl Marx would be proud.

curly123053
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curly123053 08/13/14 - 09:27 am
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FairTax !

Those who are against the FairTax most likely have ulterior motives or they have not even tried to read it or understand it. The millions of dollars spent on researching the FairTax before presenting it to Congress was conducted by various economists. Even historically liberal universities were presented copies of the FairTax beforehand and asked their opinion. They all came back saying the FairTax was much fairer and simpler than our present tax boondoggle.
In bod's comment about kids getting a prebate, each person in America with a Social Security card will get the prebate. And, the FairTax consumption tax is 23%, not the 30% those with ulterior motives keep bringing up. Even if it was 30%, that would still be a lot less than what we are paying today.

historylover
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historylover 08/13/14 - 11:17 am
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I stand amazed

day after day at the hatred on these pages. Any different opinion, stated with facts (copied and pasted as so many of you mention) is attacked every single day. Don't you folks have an open cell in your minds anywhere? I'm so sick of it.

historylover
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historylover 08/13/14 - 11:20 am
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Angela H

"A statement supported by no fact other than your own wealth envy......"we must punish those who are successful! We must make the poor prosperous by making the prosperous poor!" Karl Marx would be proud."

Whose post or quote is that? Not Bod's from what I read. Obviously I mean the part you put quotation marks around.

WalterBradfordCannon
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WalterBradfordCannon 08/13/14 - 11:33 am
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In considering a change to

In considering a change to any system, it is worth determining who would pay more, and who would pay less. In the Fairtax, the poor and the rich would pay less. The middle class would pay more. It is not even debatable that the Fairtax idealization is funded by the very rich in an attempt to shift more of the tax burden from them. After all, do you really think the middle class or the very poor are funding it?

At the same time, the rich in the USA are getting richer, while the median wage sees decreases in purchasing power each decade. It would be FAR more prudent to do away with income taxes altogether, and raise the capital gains tax (and erode its loopholes) to 50%. That would be awesome. People who increase their wealth keep half of it, and the other half finances the nation. It is fair, because anyone who increases in wealth is supporting the nation, and anyone who decreases in wealth or has no wealth does not. The best estimates are that the rich would continue to get richer, relative to the median wage, even if capital gains taxes were 70%, so you are not taking money away from people who earn new capital. Those who own things would fund the nation. These are the same people who fund lobbyists now, so it is only fair that they fund the nation.

For those who are math challenged, capital gains represents 30% of our economy, but is taxed at half the aggregate rate of the rest of the economy. You would actually need to boost the capital gains tax to 70% to completely fund the nation, but it gets quite a bit easier if you merely get rid of income taxes and keep FICA on paychecks, and then use a more modest increase in capital gains tax to fund the nation.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 11:43 am
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"It is not even debatable

"It is not even debatable that the Fairtax idealization is funded by the very rich in an attempt to shift more of the tax burden from them. "

Why is it not debatable? Because you don't want to debate it? Because you can't prove that assumption what-so-ever?

Beverly A Martin
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Beverly A Martin 08/13/14 - 12:08 pm
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FairTax Is More Than a Tax Issue

The majority of comments so far appear to address the pros and cons of the FairTax. I think that approach underestimates the importance of the FairTax as a liberty issue. The FairTaxHR25 defunds and disbands the IRS. This is why politicians, think tanks and lobbyist oppose the FairTax. The IRS has silenced, threatened and raped the wealth of America for over one hundred years. The fear of an audit has silenced Americans, organizations and corporations. The wasted money spent on compliance is just that: wasted. If one wants to argue the benefits of the income tax over the FairTax please get in line with the socialist who want to see capitalism destroyed. All one must do is look at what the corporate gains tax is doing to corporate America and Amerian jobs. Our style of government depends upon the capability of free speech. Citizens must be able to challenge authority in a peaceful manner without fear that their wealth and freedom will be taken from them by a tax agency doing the bidding of the highest bidder in Congress. The FairTaxHR25 may have flaws (what tax structure does not?) but it does restore liberty - something a flat tax can never do. www.fairtaxnation.com is a good place to start your own personal quest for information about this proposal.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 12:11 pm
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Why is it enough to simply

Why is it enough to simply say that FairTax is not based on facts....but provide ZERO proof? My first post of the day is getting proven over and over and over.

historylover
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historylover 08/13/14 - 12:26 pm
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Angela H

You can flag but you cannot erase the truth.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 12:34 pm
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What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 12:42 pm
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Flag what? Erase what truth?

Flag what? Erase what truth?

JoeAllen
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JoeAllen 08/13/14 - 01:14 pm
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IRS causes Suicide and Bankruptcies ... !!!

Every year good Americans are driven to SUICIDE and BANKRUPTCY by the extreme, relentless demands of the IRS and the US Income Tax ... !!!

Darby
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Darby 08/13/14 - 02:08 pm
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"The middle class would pay more.

It is not even debatable....... ".

.
Anytime a liberal says that something is NOT debatable, you can bet your grandma's bippy that it's extremely debatable.

Smokescreens and diversions and denial of fact, anyone???

.
One thing that most reasonable people might agree that is NOT DEBATABLE is that Democrats are certainly no friends of the middle class.

Darby
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Darby 08/13/14 - 02:14 pm
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Another thing that might be

classified as beyond debate is that ALL professional (career) politicians (Republicans and Democrats) are scared to death of the fair tax.

It's implementation would take from them the power to reward and punish the "little" people by using the tax system. They love that perk more than any of them will EVER admit.

Darby
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Darby 08/13/14 - 02:18 pm
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Hey, I got an idea....

Do away with the IRS, implement the FAIR TAX, but instead of calling it that, call it the Lois Lerner Reparations bill.

That should get enough citizens riled up in order to pass it.

WalterBradfordCannon
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WalterBradfordCannon 08/13/14 - 02:19 pm
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Part of the problem, here is

Part of the problem, here is that when FairTax proponents add up the tax by income quintiles, every income quintile pays less than they pay now. And the tax reduction increases, on a percentage basis, the richer you get. As that is the case, the FairTax is not a zero-sum solution. We are not talking about generating the same tax revenue by a different structure. This is according to a Boston University study of income distributions and the FairTax.

If we DO talk about generating the same tax revenue by a different structure, a National Sales Tax would be extremely regressive, and increase taxes most on the poorest Americans. If you add a Prebate to the tax, it shifts this burden off the poorest and onto the middle class. The richest Americans see the largest reduction in taxes. At least, according to the Treasury Panel that analyzed national sales tax concepts.

Darby
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Darby 08/13/14 - 02:20 pm
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What???

It's no less accurate than calling OzBamaCare "The AFFORDABLE Care Act"

Probably MORE accurate!

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 02:24 pm
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"The richest Americans see

"The richest Americans see the largest reduction in taxes. "

You think that might be because they are paying the highest percentage of taxes now...thus unfair?

OJP
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OJP 08/13/14 - 03:04 pm
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I say give it a whirl in one state and see how it goes.

But I do think it would have large negative impacts on manufacturing and new construction. If a new car, house, TV, computer, or whatever is 30% more expensive, market forces would strongly favor buying used products.

And Boortz admitted you won't get your whole present paycheck. You'll get your whole paycheck, yes, but we'd all receive a 23% or 30% (I forget which) pay cut.

burninater
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burninater 08/13/14 - 03:55 pm
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Here is a breakdown of recent

Here is a breakdown of recent (2011) Federal tax receipts:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=2995

The top 20% paid 70% of tax receipts. They're paying the highest percent, right? WRONG.

In 2010, the top 20% of Americans held 95% of fiscal wealth, and 89% of net worth. Given those wealth distributions, the top 20% are paying a LOWER rate than the rest. The 5% of fiscal wealth and 11% of net worth of the lower 80% paid 30% of tax receipts.

If you look at "income," the numbers DO look skewed: the top 20% account for 50% of income, but pay 70% of tax receipts. But this is only because "income" has been defined in such a way that the largest component of annual earnings for the top quintile -- capital gains -- are not called "income."

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 04:17 pm
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So now you are counting the

So now you are counting the wealth that they HOLD and want that taxed in addition to that that they earned that year? So you are saying that the money they made last year should get taxed AGAIN if it didn't get spent. THIS is why need a more fair tax system. I guess the REAL income numbers didn't look skewed enough to attack the successful for being successful, so you included the money that they saved as well.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 04:21 pm
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And yet capitol gains are

And yet capitol gains are STILL taxed.

Angela H
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Angela H 08/13/14 - 04:26 pm
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Funny you believe ONE thing

Funny you believe ONE thing Boortz says....when you agree...but discount every other thing he says.

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