Support secular morality

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Secular values have made this country great.

Many readers of this paper write in to express their disgust with secularism and calling for a return to the “Christian values” upon which our country was founded. They often use the famous “this country is going down the drain” case that older folks have been making since the dawn of time.

These people have a selective memory.

First, many of our Founding Fathers were deists – about as secular a form of Christianity as could be found at the time – who believed in the moral teachings, not the divinity, of Jesus Christ. Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are examples. Rather than base the U.S. Constitution on “biblical” principles, they did precisely the opposite by forming a government that wasn’t dedicated to any religion.

Second, many would blame secularism for the faults in our country today. But hasn’t religion been the basis for unspeakable amounts of violence and ignorance in history? Religion was used to justify slavery and the subordination of women. Christians argued that inequality was fair because God made people unequal and therefore not deserving of the same rights. People use religion to justify discrimination against homosexuals today. We might even still be living under a monarchy if the Founders gave credence to the “divine right of kings.”

Speaking of gay rights, some justify their homophobia by claiming that being gay is a choice, and our communities shouldn’t validate this “perversion.” This argument is absurd. Homosexuals don’t choose to be gay any more than heterosexuals choose to be straight. Why would a child want to be gay when he or she faces so much rejection and condemnation for doing so? Gay-rights advocates are to be admired for standing up to this bigotry.

Religion frequently makes people’s rights contingent on how they are born and what they believe. Secularists know that everyone deserves dignity and respect without exception, simply by virtue of being human. This is the core of secular morality and our greatest hope for the future.

Alex Rice

Martinez

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ymnbde
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ymnbde 07/17/14 - 06:01 am
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Stalin, Mao, and Hitler supported secular morality

you got your countries mixed up
the secular value countries are Russia and China and Germany
and their secular qualities were best exhibited in the first half
of the last century
by those great secular practitionists, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler
history is best learned through books, not cool web sites
but do google those names...
(ps- this country was founded on Christian principles)

hoptoad
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hoptoad 07/17/14 - 06:28 am
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Yes, it was founded on

Yes, it was founded on Christian principles and for over 200 years this country prospered and became strong.

The decline of this country began with the invasion of secularism and over the last 50 years we have come to this end. The worst of it is, our powerful nation was able to defend Europe from Hitler and kept the other dictator-like world leaders at bay, but there no other nation exists that will protect us from the likes of the facists who have infiltrated our nation's capitol.

Secular morality is an oxymoron!!

hoptoad
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hoptoad 07/17/14 - 06:26 am
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Mr. Rice

Most Americans have no problem with having equal rights for everyone.

The problem began when we were all forced to change our entire way of living to accommodate anyone with different life styles. Everyone must watch what he/she says, names of sports' teams must be changed, rules and laws have been changed to support only the seculars.

Seculars aren't just happy to have equal rights, they had to rob Americans of their rights, especially the rights of the Christian community.

nofanofobama
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nofanofobama 07/17/14 - 06:28 am
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yes, deist were a minor part

yes, deist were a minor part of our founding fathers..but you betray your arguement by stating that they didnt believe in diety of christ, but believed in the moral teachings...diest believe in a GOD...OUR BILL OF RIGHTS..state our rights come from GOD, not man...so they cannot be secular values....story in scripture about building a hose on sand or rock...sound moral value, a firm foundation...weak morals , like building your house on sand...shifting sands...please, homosexusality is a choice..GOD gave us the equipment to be either male/female...if you are a male and choose to be gay...its against nature, GODS design...

carcraft
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carcraft 07/17/14 - 06:44 am
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Our Declaration of

Our Declaration of Independence clearly states are rights are derived from God. George Washington ordered a day of fasting and prayer when he took over the Continental Army and instituted the Chaplains. Corp. The founders saw to it that our legislative branch's opened with prayer. Now Franklin requested the Constitutional convention pause during a hated debate for prayer and reconciliation. Thomas Jefferson felt God was best discribed by psalm 148. Not really true deists. But only about five could be considered to have leanings toward deisism. Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, Thomas Paine, John Addams and Thomas Jefferson. Well another liberal myth snakes it head up.

carcraft
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carcraft 07/17/14 - 07:07 am
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Ymnbde is correct in the

Ymnbde is correct in the first post. Secluded communist governments are responsible for the death of close to 60 million people. Millions more imprisoned, tortured and broken. Ah yes lets embrace secular morality, it's worked so well in China, Russia, Cambodia, and Cuba .

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 07/17/14 - 07:15 am
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Stalin, Mao, and Hitler didn't support much of any morality

This country was founded on a combination of principles, some you could say are Biblical, such as not killing, not stealing, etc., but they're not restricted solely to the Bible. Mainly, this country was based on a freedom for all religions, non greater or lesser than any other, something that the right wing in this country tries to rewrite ito the history books. It stands for a freedom of ALL religions or NO religion, but mainly that none are to be codified into the laws of the nation or any state in the nation. We're a secular nation, not a theocracy. Your freedom of religion ends when it starys infringing on the rights of others, or did, until Scalia decided that his religion trumped all others and reversed his previous decision in Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon vs. Smith. It seems he's not such a "strict Constitutionalist" at all when it comes to his beliefs. Those he's willing to place above the Constitution, or at least that's what he claimed the Constitution said in 1990. I guess it is a growing and changing document after all. At least according to the right wing Justices.

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 07/17/14 - 07:24 am
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The Declaration of

The Declaration of Independence is a great document, but the United States of America is governed by the Constitution that specifically says:"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Pond Life
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Pond Life 07/17/14 - 07:33 am
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And Bod....no religious test
Unpublished

And Bodhistechfan....no religious test HAS EVER been required to any office or public trust.....so what's your point?

And because of the First Amendment, the voters can apply any religious test that they want.....and people can write editorials encouraging it.....and there is nothing you or anyone can do about it. Isn't freedom great?

deestafford
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deestafford 07/17/14 - 07:50 am
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The historical ignorance of the left continues to amaze...

The historical ignorance of the left continues to amaze. It appears to be an incestuous education in which they study/read only each other and never read original source documents and writings.

When one reads the writings of the Founders they read numerous references to Providence, God, and Christ. Nearly all of the Founders were Christian and John Adams wrote and spoke on Christ

Numerous times during the debates and discussions the Founders would halt proceedings and call for a day of prayer and fasting and call on God to lead them on the right path in their deliberations.

There is a difference in a theocracy and a religious country. A theocracy has a religious leader at the head of its government. A religious country has a man who is religious at the head of its country.

At the Founding there were not a plethora of religions in America as the left wants us to believe. Much of the differences is religion were within the Protestant and Catholic spheres.

The idea behind the religious liberty was not to force people to believe one religion but it did not mean to take religion out of the public sphere and disown it as if it did not exists.

Christianity has feed more people throughout history than any other religion. A true Christian does not believe in more relativism and religious equivalence and that all religions are equal. A true Christian believes that a person is free to believe whatever they want but there is only one way to Salvation and that is through Christ. If one does not believe that, one is not a true Christian according to the Bible.

The bottomline is the left does not want to believe in or base the country on the good graces of a higher power because it then would have to believe there is something more powerful than government...the idol which they worship as the source of all aspects of life.

carcraft
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carcraft 07/17/14 - 07:59 am
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Bodhisattva and many on the

Bodhisattva and many on the left forget the First Amendment PROHIBITS government from interfering with the free practice of religion, religion is not restricted from interfering with government. So yes Mr. Obama I will cling to my Bible and guns as allowed per the first and second amendment!

deestafford
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deestafford 07/17/14 - 08:09 am
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What religion has freed more people and...

What religion has freed more people and brought more people out of poverty than Christianity?

RMSHEFF
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RMSHEFF 07/17/14 - 08:34 am
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PondLife

You have introduced one of those "pesky" facts into Bod argument .....no response...as usual !

"And Bodhistechfan....no religious test HAS EVER been required to any office or public trust.....so what's your point?

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 08:44 am
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Too many fallacy arguments to

Too many fallacy arguments to address, but he can have that opinion. There is no core to secular morality. Secular morality has several perspectives including secular humanism ,but not limited to that. Western cultures do generally associate morality with religion although religious scholar say they are separate, but eastern cultures often don't. Morality isn't really about right or wrong to evolutionist as they see it is evolved to enhance cooperation and altruism.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 08:50 am
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I think we should encourage

I think we should encourage morality - secular or religious. We can start by telling our politicians to be honest and quit being liars. When our president is so immoral with lies, drug abuse, power abuse seems funny the general population is expected to be moral.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 08:59 am
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Whether secular or religious

Whether secular or religious morality too few uphold the tenets of being moral. Both argue they seek truth, but that opens a can of worms.

ITALIAN
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ITALIAN 07/17/14 - 09:27 am
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christians

it is funny when we had a true Christian President in Jimmy Carter the rights thought his views were crazy and weak. So they helped elect a President(Regan) who had very little christian values,and made him a GOD. and the last years of his term Nancy ran the White House he was suffering with the disease that finally killed him which is ironic since he did very little to advance medical research during his terms!

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 09:42 am
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I wasn't a Christian till my

I wasn't a Christian till my late forties, and one thing I agree with them is the assumption that all people are immoral. I can honestly say I've never met a moral person- before or after becoming a Christian. But I guess it depends on your definition of moral, but in any case being religious doesn't mean you are moral. Funny too Christians don't lay any claims to being moral- in fact they argue the opposite- you can't be moral- only through Christ in us can we be moral. I think the big difference is Secular morality is the the idea you can think individually to find morality, whereas Abrahamic religions morality is decided by an outside force God.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 09:55 am
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Atheist and secular humanist

Atheist and secular humanist argue morality is independent of religion, yet they spend a great deal of time arguing against religions. I thought the posit is morality is independent,which it is you can be ver religious and be immoral. So why drag religions through the mud- they don't have anything to do with actually being moral in behavior. Plenty of atheists and religious folks who are immoral so what is the point?

dichotomy
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dichotomy 07/17/14 - 10:03 am
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" So they helped elect a

" So they helped elect a President(Regan) who had very little christian values,and made him a GOD. and the last years of his term Nancy ran the White House he was suffering with the disease that finally killed him which is ironic since he did very little to advance medical research during his terms!"

Oh good....another one full of irrelevant comments and revisionist history. Oh well, at least they aren't as long winded as Bod.

GodisSoGood
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GodisSoGood 07/17/14 - 10:47 am
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Religion does not make one

Religion does not make one have morals. A relationship with Jesus Christ will.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 07/17/14 - 11:15 am
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I'm sure Ted the Unibomber

I'm sure Ted the Unibomber thought he was moral in his vindictive attacks- against the industrial world supporting nature. But was it moral for a Harvard scientist to unwittingly experiment with Ted psychologically. While at Harvard, Kaczynski was among the twenty-two Harvard undergraduates used as guinea pigs in ethically questionable experiments conducted by Henry Murray.[5] In the experiment each student received a code name. Kaczynski was given the code name "Lawful". Among other purposes, Murray's experiments were focused on measuring people's reactions under extreme stress. The unwitting undergraduates were submitted to what Murray himself called "vehement, sweeping and personally abusive" attacks. Assaults to their egos, cherished ideas and beliefs were the tools used to cause high levels of stress and distress. These experiments were conducted at Harvard University from the fall of 1959 through the spring of 1962.[6]
Now I'm sure this scientist thought his experiments were moral too.

carcraft
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carcraft 07/17/14 - 11:37 am
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Italian, pretty clear you

Italian, pretty clear you don't know much about Reagan other than left wing babble. Reagan had a strong understanding of Christianity. Reagan taught Sunday School as a teenager and was very committed to Christianity. Another liberal myth.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 07/17/14 - 12:20 pm
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Authoritarian forms of

Authoritarian forms of government have killed more people and committed more atrocities throughout this world's history than any amount of violence perpetrated under the guise of religion!

Isn't it odd how lefties try to scare others with the specter of a right-wing driven Christian theocracy, and at the same time support authoritarian forms of gov't?

It's not just odd, it's downright ludicrous!!!

Darby
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Darby 07/17/14 - 02:59 pm
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"Oh well, at least they aren't as long winded as Bod."

Hallelujah!

Still, I've come to believe that you don't need to read more than the first few words from Bod to know all you need to.

So I don't!

hoptoad
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hoptoad 07/17/14 - 03:56 pm
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Italian

The reason President Carter was ousted had nothing to do with religion. He was totally unequiped to perform the duties of the position to which he was elected.

His policies were almost as bad as O's and if elected to serve a second term would have made even more poor decisions.

corgimom
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corgimom 07/17/14 - 05:23 pm
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Carcraft, yeah, Reagan had a

Carcraft, yeah, Reagan had a strong understanding of Christianity, alright, which is why he and Nancy got married after she became pregnant, and that they lived together before their marriage- back in the early 50's, when that just wasn't done.

The Reagans glossed over that until Nancy wrote her biography and had to come clean- but still lied about her age, and she got caught on that when the 1930 census came out.

Now, I have read from more than one source that Nancy Davis Reagan didn't exactly come by her movie career on her "great acting talent".

They weren't quite the upright citizens that they would want people to believe; but back in the 70's and 80's, there wasn't the kind of expose that there is now.

And that's not "left wing babble".

People are people, and they had their flaws and faults, just like everybody else. But they weren't the upright, prim and proper citizens that they wanted people to believe.

And he wasn't as conservative as he portrayed himself to be, either- he signed an abortion bill when he was governor of California, but they glossed over that, too.

Like all politicians, he said what people wanted to hear, not what he really believed.

When he ran for President, you didn't hear him talk about the abortion bill, did you?

corgimom
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corgimom 07/17/14 - 05:27 pm
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Hey, let's talk about the

Hey, let's talk about the "moral" experiments of the Tuskegee men that were purposely given syphilis, or the drug trials that were done using prisoners and people in state institutions, without their consent.

And then let's talk about the "moral" people that sterilized so many people against their will, because they were "defective" or "promiscuous".

But let's also not forget the Civil War- where Christians fought Christians, and slaughtered 750,000 men, and the thousands more that died after the War from illness and debilitation.

corgimom
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corgimom 07/17/14 - 05:28 pm
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If this country was founded

If this country was founded on Christian principles (which it isn't), why isn't Jesus mentioned in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence?

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