Animal testing barbaric

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This is a rebuttal of Christopher Cutler’s and Mark Hamrick’s Dec. 1 guest column (“Animal lovers deserve the truth on GRU dental implant testing”) stating dental experiments used on dogs “are neither frivolous nor unnecessary, and are a key component of developing safe and effective dental procedures for humans.”

I am a licensed dental hygienist. Dental implants have been around for many, many years. They have become mainstream in treatment planning in the past 10 years. Each week in clinical practice, I see patients with dental implant success. I am one of them – I have an implant in my mouth I had done in 2011.

Dental implants have a 96 percent success rate. If they fail, usually it is because of a systemic disease or the patient was a bad candidate for implants (smoker, alcoholic, bone loss too far gone, etc). There is absolutely no reason for these tests to be done. What do you think you would gain from using a jawbone from a dog? Don’t you realize that dogs comprise an entirely different species, and their tissue and metabolism, among many other things, is different from ours?

Would you use your dog’s medication to treat your own health aliments? No? I didn’t think so. It is barbaric that animal testing is being used today.

Please, as a dental professional, I want to be informed of what researchers glean from these experiments. I would love to know.

Becky Leaphart

Johns Island, S.C.

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Bizkit
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Bizkit 12/12/13 - 01:55 pm
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ICL we agree-that was my

ICL we agree-that was my point that Hamrick and the other dude's opinion doesn't invalidate hers. Maybe I'm denial because if animal testing is barbaric then I am a barbarian. Long before I became a scientist I was ordered by adults to put down dogs-hunting dogs some thousands of dollars in worth, but they wouldn't hunt so bye-bye was the attitude. I did as I was told and the attitude was it would toughen me up to what "real" life is all about. Yeah pretty draconian. Then as a scientist years of animal research would paint me a "Mengele". I often took care of animals as a grad student so I know they were treated well. I refuse to anthropomorph the dog into a human, but I do admit to crying to losing a family dog to this day. Buddhist put a lot of credence in treating lower animals as equals but that isn't a christian philosophy. I love life-all animals,plants, fungi, protist and bacteria, but that doesn't mean I won't shoot and eat a deer either. I'm an omnivore. Dogs that are destined to die seem a useful tool to help our species-after all their species wouldn't exist without humans. We made all the dog breeds (wild dogs across planet descended too from the domesticated dog which was the first animal humans domesticated). Most breeds of dogs are actually believed to be extinct in this long history which is muddled by selective breeding and dogs breeding on their own. I was a researcher trying to do good things not bad. I am sure these researchers intentions are good too.

Fiat_Lux
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Fiat_Lux 12/12/13 - 02:01 pm
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@Bizkit

I have to say, my respect for you took a skyward leap today. Good, good comments.

The rational among us need to stick together, especially when relating to/dealing with those who are hopelessly anthropomorphic about lesser species.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 12/12/13 - 02:17 pm
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Thanks Fiat I appreciate

Thanks Fiat I appreciate that. I've always appreciated your posits on here.

myfather15
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myfather15 12/12/13 - 02:18 pm
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Wow!! I hate to think how

Wow!! I hate to think how mankind would suffer if all animal testing ceased immediately!!

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/12/13 - 04:27 pm
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Wow, there seems to be a

Wow, there seems to be a miscommunication Biskit. The fact that I came to the defense of Ms. Leaphart and the ugly characterization of her, in no way reflects my opinion on whether animal testing should or should not be allowed. My whole comment (or should say comments) have been about the attitude towards the letter writer and not her stance on the issue or anyone else stance of the issue, but it appears that since I disagreed with the personal jab towards her, that somehow translated into I am in agreement with her viewpoint.

Fiat, It would be my guess to say Ms. Leaphart as well as others who care deeply for animals and their well being, although they are against animal testing I would not go so far as to accuse them of anthropomorphism. Talk about hyperbole.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/12/13 - 04:31 pm
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Myfather15, I believe Ms.

Myfather15, I believe Ms. Leaphart had an issue with dental implant testing on dogs that in her opinion were unneccesary.. Never in her letter did she state that she disapproved of all animal testing for all medical purposes.

seenitB4
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seenitB4 12/12/13 - 05:14 pm
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Please ...don't overdo my rating please

I don't see animals as humans but I don't like repetitive testing on dogs...so sue me!!

We all have our quirks....:)

myfather15
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myfather15 12/12/13 - 05:48 pm
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ICL

Yes, I read your earlier comments. She COULD have been making the statement either way, since she mainly talked about dental implants. But the fact is, she did say "Would you use your dog’s medication to treat your own health aliments? No? I didn’t think so. It is barbaric that animal testing is being used today."

Two points; first, she DID say "health ailments" not dental problems or dental ailments. Then she said "animal testing", not "dog testing". So, until she decides to clarify her position, I think she is opposed to all animal testing, period. I could be wrong, I could be right; but until it's clarified, that's my position.

Millions of lives have been saved or improved from the results of animal testing. So I again state, I would hate to think how mankind would suffer without animal testing.

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 12/12/13 - 05:52 pm
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WalterBradfordCannon wins the

WalterBradfordCannon wins the prize for the most rational and accurate view of the situation. Ten thumbs up!

Bizkit
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Bizkit 12/12/13 - 07:58 pm
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Cheez-it. Sorry ICL the

Cheez-it. Sorry ICL the written word sometimes loses something in translation. My apologizes for making assumptions or misreading your comments.

fedex227
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fedex227 12/12/13 - 08:24 pm
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3
Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 05:47 am
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Yeah fedex....posting real
Unpublished

Yeah fedex....posting real documented, researched facts to clarify positions is realy un-cool. And the left is all about being cool.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 05:53 am
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nocnoc, was it really

nocnoc, was it really necessary to post all of Ms. Leapharts personal information. So since Ms. Leaphart is only a "tooth cleaner" (I believe the professional term is Hygienist) and so is it your opinion that since her viewpoint doesn't agree with yours, her personal opinion doesn't count and she should reframe from speaking it?

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 06:04 am
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"Yeah fedex....posting real

"Yeah fedex....posting real documented, researched facts to clarify positions is realy un-cool."

Yeah HA, nocnoc really posted researched facts there. (NOT) All this was is someone looking up another personal's personal information and posting it on this blog as a slam towards a commenter who voice her opinion on a subject in which some disagree with and in order to make "a" point (she's only a "tooth cleaner" and not a dentist) this was nothing but a personal slam.

myfather15
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myfather15 12/13/13 - 06:29 am
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ICL

Wow, you are spinning like a liberal!! Never thought I would see this happen!! I appreciate Nocnoc getting that information and sharing it. What "personal" information did he share about her? Only her name, which was on the article!! He didn't give her phone number and the rest was NOT personal but professional information that we are ALL able to view.

This is NOT about her personal opinion, not counting because it disagrees with OURS. It's about Mrs. Leaphart passing herself off as an expert because she is a "Dental hygienist" which sounds like someone who knows what they're talking about.

But for a dental hygienist to make this statement "There is absolutely no reason for these tests to be done. What do you think you would gain from using a jawbone from a dog?" is absurd!!!

What makes dental hygienist an expert on science??? I'm a Deputy and I certainly wouldn't tell you there is "ABSOLUTELY" no reason to do tests on dogs. When you say absolutely, you are leaving ZERO room for even the possibility that something good COULD come of it. What qualifies her to make that decision?

So basically, SHE is the one bringing harsh criticism on herself. By POSING as an expert in the field and attempting to pass her opinion off as FACT, by the "Absolutely" statement.

She IS in fact, basically a teeth cleaner!! One who has had implants herself, but that also doesn't make her an expert!! Many people in other professions have had dental implants; including fast food workers; are they experts on dental implant research?

myfather15
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myfather15 12/13/13 - 06:35 am
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"Yeah HA, nocnoc really

"Yeah HA, nocnoc really posted researched facts there. (NOT) All this was is someone looking up another personal's personal information "

I'm honestly beginning to believe ICL's login and password have been hijacked!! Because she usually makes much more sense than this!!

WHAT personal information has nocnoc put out there??? Please tell me. The ONLY thing personal I see is a phone number, which the last four digits have been hidden. Which also could be the phone number to the office she works at, who knows. If it's the office phone number, do you still consider that "personal"?

The rest of the information he posted is PROFESSIONAL information that ANYONE can look up!!

License number? Issue date? Status? Expiration? Complaint history?

This is "personal" information to you?

seenitB4
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seenitB4 12/13/13 - 06:58 am
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Come on folks

Just a tad too much info ....a tad....I wouldn't look it up, but that's just me.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 07:28 am
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ICL...where's this personal
Unpublished

ICL...where's this personal information you speak of? I don't see any.

nocnoc
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nocnoc 12/13/13 - 09:17 am
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My Comment was deleted

and looking back on my copy I understand why.

But my point is simple.
I would rather hear from her employer the DENTIST
than the person he hires to clean teeth.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 09:28 am
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nocnoc, her employer the

nocnoc, her employer the DENTIST may have a different opinion than her but that still does not give anyone the right to demean a person who happens to write a letter to the editor voicing their personal opinion on a subject.

MyFather15, no I am not spinning like a liberal. And I'm sorry that my opinion on this differs from yours....I guess we must all think alike for you to approve.

From the beginning my comments have been concerning the personal insults towards Ms. Leaphart and not regarding her personal opinion on the subject. Ms. Leaphart is free to voice her opinion just like the next person and although I may or may not agree with her viewpoint, she is entitled to voice it. If I disagree then it is up to me to state why I disagree without stating she needs to play with dolls or post personal (or professional) information about that person or degrade her profession by calling her a "tooth cleaner" instead of her professional title a "Dental Hygenist".

I'm sorry if my personal treatment of individuals, whether I agree with them or not, rises to a higher standard than yourself, MyFather15, but I assure you I am not liberal....I don't take joy in bashing someone just because I disagree with them. It's occurring more and more often on here and personally, I'm tried of keeping my mouth shut about it.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 09:51 am
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(MyFather15) "License number?

(MyFather15) "License number? Issue date? Status? Expiration? Complaint history?"

Please tell me what any of this information has to do with the subject? Yes it is Ms. Leaphart's professional information which in turns makes it personal information regarding her. AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS SUBJECT.

But please go ahead and tell all of us why you need to know this information? What does her license number, issue date, status and expiration date tell you regarding her opinion on animal or dog testing of dental implant?

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 10:18 am
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" What does her license
Unpublished

" What does her license number, issue date, status and expiration date tell you regarding her opinion on animal or dog testing of dental implant?"

A fine question....so is the question "how is this personal information?"

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 11:26 am
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What difference does it make

What difference does it make HA if this is or isn't personal information? Asking a question to answer a question is not answering the question at all.

The information that was posted has nothing to do with the writer's opinion on animal or dog testing for dental implants, therefore is useless information and should never have been posted.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 11:32 am
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Just to answer your question

Just to answer your question HA even though you avoid answering mine....definition of personal information.

"Personally identifiable information" is information that can be used on its own or with other information to identify, contact, or locate a single person, or to identify an individual in context.

Since the information provided was Ms. Leaphart's profession license information this would also qualify as her personal information since it can be used to identify her. PII does not only pertain to address and phone number information.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 11:36 am
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"What difference does it make
Unpublished

"What difference does it make HA if this is or isn't personal information? "

Just pointing out that your statement was not true. That's all.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 12:01 pm
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The writers background infor
Unpublished

The writers background info may not be pertinent as to her opinion on animal testing, but it IS pertinent as to her knowlege of how necessary the testing is.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 12:11 pm
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Well then you would be wrong

Well then you would be wrong HA, because as I have given you the definiton and pointed out, my statement was accurrate and the information displayed was a part of her personal information. You are free to disagree.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 12:20 pm
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HA, I seriously doubt Ms.

HA, I seriously doubt Ms. Leaphart was giving anything other than her personal opinion when she stated "There is absolutely no reason for these tests to be done. " She did mention she was a dental hygenist and then proceeded to explain how she see's almost weekly dental implant success and attested to her own success. We can nit-pick her words to death to justify our nasty comments and make ourselves feel better but it's still wrong.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 12/13/13 - 12:25 pm
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My opinion, but given what is
Unpublished

My opinion, but given what is actually written in the letter, it appears that you are reading things into it that aren't there, probably based on your distaste of animal testing. You did it earlier when you claimed she didn't say she was against animal testing, when it was in black and white.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 12/13/13 - 12:47 pm
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Reading things into it? HA,

Reading things into it? HA, where in my comments have I stated what my view is on animal testing? I believe I have mentioned several times that I have neither agree or disagree with Ms. Leaphart on her opinion towards animal testing. Maybe you need to reread the black and white again. I see no where in Ms. Leapharts letter where she states "in my professional opinion", or "because of my profession"......I read the letter for what it was and stand by my comment that everyone is entitled to their opinion without fear of derogatory personal remarks. That has been the point of every comment I have made regarding this letter. So since I have neither stated my stance on animal testing, please tell us whom is reading things into it?

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