The Fair Tax just isn't fair

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I read recently that my state representative, Bill Taylor, polled “about 10,000” of his constituents because, according to him, “I want to know the attitudes of the people I represent.” Why didn’t he include me in that survey? Bill and I have talked on several occasions, and I think my attitude should be recorded.

Our conversations have usually centered on the proposed South Carolina Fair Tax Act, an act that he is passionately pushing and I am passionately opposing. The Fair Tax would abolish more than $4 billion annually of current state business taxes and the current state sales tax. The Fair Tax would recoup the entire $4 billion by expanding the state retail sales tax to cover all of our purchases of new goods and all services, including all food, medicines, medical procedures, most school tuitions, your new autos and new homes (used cars and resale homes excepted). Essentially, everything and every service we buy will be taxed!

In other words, all business taxes are abolished, and the $4 billion of the abolished taxes falls on the shoulders of you, me and our neighbors.

Any idea what your share of $4 billion might be? Here’s an example: Earlier this year I had a minor medical procedure involving a four-hour visit in a surgical facility. I checked in at 8 a.m. and was home by early afternoon – no big deal. The bill for that visit was $58,000, and the Fair Tax would have added nearly $3,500. Have you ever paid $3,500 sales taxes in a year?

The Fair Tax just ain’t fair, Bill. Let it go!

Jerrold Sundt

Aiken, S.C.

Comments (23) Add comment
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bullbatt
28
Points
bullbatt 11/30/13 - 05:27 am
4
3
fair tax
Unpublished

Man you just ain't thinking, Fair tax aint nothing but fair. and you would have 40% MORE of your income to pay the tax with. You would have teh CHOICE to spend your money or KEEP your money. You would capture ALL income for tax purposes, where taxes are avoided, then money spent and the fedeal government missing out on capturing the taxes, would be done away with. If you dont like the fair tax then YOU are a [filtered word].

carcraft
28587
Points
carcraft 11/30/13 - 06:21 am
3
2
I thought the fa

I thought the fa

jbennettatty
7
Points
jbennettatty 11/30/13 - 06:33 am
2
3
Yes it is fair

The legislation is fair.

Article 4 of the South Carolina bill provides for a Family Consumption Allowance to reimburse every household whose members are lawfully residing in South Carolina for consumption tax on necessities. So in effect every South Carolina family pays a flat 6% tax on consumption above the poverty level. With this feature, the potential problem of the tax not being fair to those at the bottom segment of the economic spectrum is removed.

Other tax provisions are removed (Chapters 6, 8, 11, 13, 16, 36, 58, and 62 of Title 12 of the 1976) many of which are business taxes passed onto consumers in the form of higher prices. These provisions impact the poor disproportionately and are gone with the legislation.

But fairness is only one criterion of tax policy. A tax also needs to be understandable, efficient and conducive to economic growth. The South Carolina Fair Tax Act, in replacing other forms of taxation, meets all of these criteria as does no other tax.

When a tax no longer taxes the fruits of thrift, effort and productivity, it displaces other taxes that do. The Fair Tax Act in South Carolina is simply the way to go. Other states will be forced to follow suit if they want to prevent the flight of capital and wealth to South Carolina.

Riverman1
94245
Points
Riverman1 11/30/13 - 06:37 am
7
3
If the producer of a product

If the producer of a product or service is not taxed, he will be able to offer the product at a price to reflect the savings. That's what the writer is missing.

deestafford
32182
Points
deestafford 11/30/13 - 06:40 am
5
2
Let's not confuse the "Fair Tax" in SC

and the Fair Tax many of us favor at the national level to replace the income tax, estate tax and others.

GACopprhed
2136
Points
GACopprhed 11/30/13 - 07:01 am
4
11
Riverman, it's a joke if you
Unpublished

Riverman, it's a joke if you really think that businesses will lower prices...it's just like doctors and insurance companies...do the EVER lower prices?

justthefacts
25475
Points
justthefacts 11/30/13 - 07:37 am
8
4
River

You are correct. The selling price is based on cost plus profit. If cost of goods are reduced, so is the selling price. Socialist rarely understand and btw, can't stand Capitalism.

david jennings
625
Points
david jennings 11/30/13 - 07:44 am
5
3
Nothing could be more unfair

I would welcome most any change in the existing tax. Yes, let me keep my money and decide how to spend it. I've long been tired of sending it to the state or fed and then they choose to distribute it. Excuse me but I don't see where they are doing anything except throwing it away. As of this past week the gov is holding roughly 8 or 9000$ of mine, I worked for it but they have it, I don't.

gaflyboy
5353
Points
gaflyboy 11/30/13 - 07:47 am
12
4
GACopprhed 11/30/13 - 07:01 am

Marketing 101 - Businesses try sell as much as they can, thus outselling their competitors. Very quickly, someone will say “Hey! Our overhead was just reduced by 40%. Let’s mark our prices down and double our sales.” The competitor, seeing this and wanting to stay in business will have to reciprocate. If he doesn’t, he goes out of business. This is how the free market works. Pretty complicated, huh?

Riverman1
94245
Points
Riverman1 11/30/13 - 07:47 am
9
4
GAC, There's a Price Fixing Scheme Going On?

GAC, you think there is a price fixing scheme going on? You really should report what information you have to the FTC. The Commission consists of two Democrats and two Republicans. But if you believe a car can be produced thousands of dollars cheaper and won't be priced competitively, the joke's on you.

As far as doctors and insurance companies, they are actually not allies. Insurance companies are always pushing for lower costs from hospitals and doctors.

soapy_725
44131
Points
soapy_725 11/30/13 - 08:19 am
2
0
Fair tax not equal tax. Ain't fair unless all pay same rate. No
Unpublished

exemptions, no adjustments. Rich. poor, kings and queens pay the same rate. Variable rates is the same as we have now.

soapy_725
44131
Points
soapy_725 11/30/13 - 08:20 am
1
0
Those with Roth IRA's will pay twice for their "fairness". Even
Unpublished

Mr. Bortz would not response to that issue. Move you money to a Roth.

soapy_725
44131
Points
soapy_725 11/30/13 - 08:21 am
1
0
soapy_725
44131
Points
soapy_725 11/30/13 - 08:23 am
1
0
Swedes gladly pay 85% tax for their glorius wellfare state. Lets
Unpublished

jump on the bandwagon. 60% income and 25% consumption.

ymnbde
10752
Points
ymnbde 11/30/13 - 08:30 am
4
2
gacopper it's a joke if you think businesses will not

lower prices
how much were the first computers?
the first cell phones?
the first calculators
but insurance companies differ in that they can't
completely control the risk that they insure against
they can have safety regulations and make insurance premiums based on adherence to those regulations
they can charge smokers more
they can charge chronic speeders and drunk drivers more
but there is no process they can streamline to save money
no product they can make cheaper and save money
and for the most part they have to make a profit that compensates for the policyholders own recklessness and willingness to commit fraud
just like walmart must charge more for shoplifting mitigation
and this letter writer is only looking at one side of the balance sheet
he does not account for the ending of payroll taxes and personal taxes
one wonders if the writer pays those at all

Stephen C Eldridge
27
Points
Stephen C Eldridge 11/30/13 - 08:46 am
5
2
FairTax Fraud
Unpublished

The FairTax is a FRAUD - we need a 10% "ithe" Tax!

I am a retired tax lawyer (JD, LLM in Taxation)/CPA, with no financial stake in ANY tax system. I can support every comment I make - for supporting details, call Stephen C. Eldridge tel. 423-532-7337.

The so-called “Fair Tax” (“FT”) is a fraud – it is MORE WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION, AND a financial SCAM.

In their own words, FT proudly advertises that it is MORE PROGRESSIVE (INCREASES WELFARE).

The Prebate is advertised as merely repaying the poor for any FT they pay, but actually would pay them far more than any FT they might pay and also gives the working poor free SS/Medi.

The Prebate is NOT a refund of FT paid, it is a new $600B ENTITLEMENT, leaving ALL Americans receiving a monthly check from the federal govt – a very bad idea for those of us who are not Socialists. More poor people will be receiving free SS/Medi.

The FT hits us with a 40-70% in-your-face retail sales tax that would spark a taxpayer rebellion that would destroy our 70% retail-sales-sensitive economy. 40% = 30% (not 23%) FT + e.g., 10% S/L sales tax and 70% is the rate needed at a sample 30% FT evasion rate (the FT incredibly assumes ZERO evasion and ZERO intentional reduction in spending and ZERO migration from new to used goods).

IN ADDITION to that 40-70% tax, the FT contains several HIDDEN TAXES. 1) FT’s 30% rate is really 42+%; the 12+% is hidden by having fed + S/L govts paying FT – they must get that money from you. 2) The initial 30% rate is 1-5% short and that plus any other revenue shortfall will have to be made up by raising more FT (or a NEW Income Tax), 3) The fed budget will rise for a) SS benefits because the FT-guaranteed SS COLA of almost 30%, b) fraudulent new SS benefits, c) COLA’s payable to all federal retirees – and more FT (or a NEW Income Tax) we be required to fund these.

The NEW IRS (i.e., the STAA) may well be far worse, far more invasive than today’s IRS (the buyer is liable to pay FT and get/show a receipt) – we may well have to file an “Annual FT Summary”.

We may well wind up with BOTH a NEW Income Tax AND the FT.

Seniors will start to pay for SS/Medi again and some will pay a 2nd-3rd tax on their earnings. Many middle class seniors will pay more tax under FT and many will lose purchasing power because of the 15-30% price increase.

What we need is a Flat Income Tax with No Deductions, No Exemptions, No Credits and a 10% rate, with business income taxed to shareholders on a very simple basis (i.e., no corporate income tax) – See H.R. 1040, but with changes as noted here. Call your representatives in Congress and let them know that this is what you want.

robert2410
1628
Points
robert2410 11/30/13 - 08:47 am
5
4
The reason liberals do not
Unpublished

The reason liberals do not like the fair tax is because it would be fair. Drug dealers and illegal immigrants would be paying the same taxes as everyone else and for some reason liberals hate that. I wonder when the libs decided to become so un-American? They are downright sickening to listen to

RMSHEFF
18880
Points
RMSHEFF 11/30/13 - 08:54 am
4
2
Just how much of the $58,000

Just how much of the $58,000 did you actually pay?

southernguy08
532
Points
southernguy08 11/30/13 - 09:09 am
0
0
FAIR TAX
Unpublished

Hey Jerrold, do you REALLY think businesses and corporations really pay taxes? FYI, they pay nothing, you do. They pass those costs right on to all of us in the form of higher prices for their good and services. A fair tax IS pair because everyone would be paying it. And since most enjoy the benefits of what taxes fund, schools, roads, etc., everyone should pay. Simple as that.

teaparty
11313
Points
teaparty 11/30/13 - 09:10 am
3
3
"That's what the writer is
Unpublished

"That's what the writer is missing."
This writer is missing much than that.

JRC2024
10529
Points
JRC2024 11/30/13 - 09:55 am
3
1
Rmsheff, I doubt anyone paid

Rmsheff, I doubt anyone paid the 58000.00 by the time all the agreed rates were calculated. That is just the bill. Payment is always much less. If you were at Doctors Hospital they take off 20% and then if you pay right then then they take off another discount which brings the bill way down.

Jon Lester
2480
Points
Jon Lester 11/30/13 - 10:08 am
3
0
Two things.
Unpublished

It's bad enough I, as a retailer, have to collect sales taxes for the state. I don't want to have to do it for the federal government, either. And no less a libertarian organization than the von Mises Institute concluded that it's not a good deal at all:

http://mises.org/daily/1814

Stephen C Eldridge
27
Points
Stephen C Eldridge 11/30/13 - 11:19 am
3
2
Retail Prices
Unpublished

People in this discussion seem to think that prices will come down by 40% (before adding 30% FT). Where in the world do you get these ridicuous figures?

AFFT's Harvard economist Dale Jorgenson first said prics can come down by 22%. He later explained that 2/3 of that was the EMPLOYEES' taxes and the employer will have to give that to EMPLOYEES so that the price reduction is only about 7% (BEFORE adding 30% FT). AFFT now claims prices go down 12.5% & up 30% so the net is 115%.

Half of that 7% is the Employer's share of SS/Medi which he will either keep or pay to employees. So, I say prices may come down maybe by 5% & up 30% = 123%.

I hope this provides some reality to the FT fantasy.

Stephen C Eldridge
27
Points
Stephen C Eldridge 11/30/13 - 11:18 am
5
1
FairTax in SC
Unpublished

A SC FairTax MIGHT work, BUT a 6% sales tax on EVERYTHING you buy MIGHT work in SC, but a FEDERAL 36% tax on EVERYTHING you buy is quite a different story - that will never work.

Why is it that Progressives/Socialists like JBENNETT above, keep rying to tell us that it is FAIR that the poor pay NO tax or pay NEGATIVE taxes - its all in how one defines the word FAIR.

Progressives/Socialists must try to use nice sounding language to rationalize additional wealth redistribution. Sorry, Comrade, but we are alert to you.

I say FAIRNESS requires everyone (including the poor) to pay their reasonably allocated share of the COST of essential, Constitutional govt services like the military, and VERY FEW other items (wealth redistribution is NOT a Constitutionally granted power).

Mr. Bennett (and his FT Comrades) and I have a basic POLITICAL diffference in outlook.

Darby
29473
Points
Darby 11/30/13 - 11:34 am
2
2
"Why didn’t he include me in that survey?"

Maybe because he was aware of your obvious tendency to "make it up as you go".

Or because you want to see more and more of our precious tax dollars funneled into the most profligate administration and government in our nation's two-hundred plus year history.

t3bledsoe
14291
Points
t3bledsoe 11/30/13 - 11:50 am
3
0
Agree with LTE

I must agree with this LTE!! If the fair tax is passed, then people are going to "shy away from" buying big ticket items! It is difficult for me to believe that it won't effect EVERY purchase! I am not so stupid as to believe that the fair tax would perhaps bring US out of this great on-going debt, BUT how many people can REALLY afford it??!!

deestafford
32182
Points
deestafford 11/30/13 - 12:14 pm
3
2
SEC, It's obvious you are not as well informed on the Fair Tax

as the length of your posts indicate. I suggest you thoroughly read "The Fair Tax" book by Neal Boortz and John Linder as well as "Fair Tax, The Truth--Answering the Critics" by Neal Boortz and John Linder. It's obvious you have only been looking at other sources and not the originals.

Let's don't confuse SC's Fair Tax and the one proposed to replace the federal income tax.

Bizkit
35740
Points
Bizkit 11/30/13 - 01:13 pm
3
2
Lawyer Eldridge I can provide

Lawyer Eldridge I can provide just as many articles to support the opposite of each of your posits. Economists are all over the place on this topic. Myself I am hesitant to try something this drastic-because look how the drastic changes of the ACA are going. I support less drastic more reasonable changes of what we have rather than a consumption tax.

Riverman1
94245
Points
Riverman1 11/30/13 - 01:21 pm
4
2
The Reason Mr. Eldridge Whines

When Mr. Eldridge uses descriptions of fair tax advocates such as "Progressives/Socialists and comrade" one of us is out to lunch and I think he's at the buffet. When you are able to tax the billions in nontaxed income, you're on the right track.

Realize, a tax attorney who is also a CPA and LLM in taxation, such as Mr. Eldridge, has an income that depends on the current tax laws that he wants to see kept intact.

nocnoc
49557
Points
nocnoc 11/30/13 - 01:22 pm
3
1
All Taxes are a game.

To me a Fair tax mean EVERYONE pays the same tax on what they SPEND in Taxes.

If I spend a Dollar, or if Bill Gates spends a dollar we both are taxed at the same amount. I buy a car I spend $20,000 and pay taxes on that amount. If Bill Gates buys a car (likely an armor SUV) He spends $250K and he pays the same tax rate as I do. BUT, it no longer is a Tax Write off for Bill and does not need to be.

We all know currently the taxes laws are politically full of LOOP HOLES for too many "special" people. Allowing those with the $$$$ already to keep it, but those that come into $$$$ to be kept from building greater wealth over their lives and passing it along to the next generation. Economic Class Wealth Restriction was a term used in my College Classes.

But, The Fair Tax levels the PAYING Field.
Read for yourself and understand how we already pay the same amount in Hidden taxes already.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=HowFairTaxWorks

http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/TheFairTaxWhatsInItForTheStates.pdf

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