Our ideals often rejected

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Your recent editorial “Our sacred honor” (Oct 27) was an eloquent but essentially futile plea for unity, because it fails to recognize current political reality: On our most fundamental beliefs, we are increasingly a deeply divided nation.

Your assertion that we are separated because we no longer see those things that unite us – freedom, self-reliance, responsibility – is incorrect. It’s not that we no longer see these once-commonly accepted and unifying principles. We are divided as a nation because significant and apparently growing numbers of our fellow citizens reject these ideals. They see them just fine. They just don’t like what they see.

Unlike our Founding Fathers, who were unified in their opposition to British rule and wholly committed to independence and self-reliance, a significant number of Americans today reject freedom and its accompanying burden of responsibility in favor of more government, more dependence, less self-reliance and less responsibility. This is not a small difference of opinion over details within the framework of shared core principles and an overarching guiding vision. No, this is a deep, fundamental conflict between competing and diametrically opposed political, social and economic philosophies for the hearts and minds of this nation.

The outcome of this conflict will define what kind of America in which our children and grandchildren will live. Will it be a nation that embraces and celebrates the principles and virtues that have, until now, defined our national character? Or will it be a nation that continues its current march into debt, despotism and despair?

The nation is divided. The stakes are high – too high to allow ourselves to indulge a fantasy of wishful thinking over some never-to-be-realized unity. Sadly, that ship has sailed.

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shrimp for breakfast
5422
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shrimp for breakfast 10/30/13 - 05:37 am
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Very good letter

Well said and right on the mark. I wish I had written it.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 10/30/13 - 06:04 am
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Excellent letter!

Excellent letter!

Riverman1
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Riverman1 10/30/13 - 07:19 am
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Cold Civil War Is Here

Yes, I said in the comments under the editorial that we are in a cold civil war. This not a matter of politicians being nice to each other. We are firmly divided as much as before the OTHER Civil War. We were warned what would happen with our democracy as people started to vote themselves other people's belongings. It's here. Firing on Ft. Sumter is next.

Bodhisattva
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Bodhisattva 10/30/13 - 07:41 am
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Or will we continue our march

Or will we continue our march into oligarchy, chrysoaristocracy, corpocracy, plutocracy, plousiocracy, and argentocracy?

Riverman1
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Riverman1 10/30/13 - 08:19 am
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Corporations pay triple taxes

Corporations pay triple taxes. I'm not for giving them anything, but I certainly recognize the value they are to this country with their paid taxes, jobs created and products produced. A corporation is a legal entity of individual investors banded together to create a profit making company. When we talk about giving them things what we actually mean is taxing them less or taking less of THEIR money.

localguy55
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localguy55 10/30/13 - 08:56 am
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The outcome of this cold

The outcome of this cold civil war may determine if there will be a greater conflict to come. There is only so much people will tolerate of others taking from them their freedom, property, and possessions, and there is a point when freedom loving people will have had enough of this non-sense.

deestafford
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deestafford 10/30/13 - 09:13 am
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A very well done letter.

A few points to make:

A mistake is made when we assume that the natural desire of man is freedom and "democracy". If it were there would have been more countries with democratic forms of government throughout history. It is also interesting to note that the only countries with democratic governments in history prior to the middle of the 20th century was were in the West in particular in Western Europe and North America.

Maybe the natural inclination of man is to let others make their life decisions and depend on others for their living. The Pilgrims originally set up a commune type of living style whereby everything was put in common piles and everyone shared equally. What John Bradford, the leader, found was some didn't work and depended on the work of others to survive. The result was many starved because enough goods were not produce.

Bradford did away with that system and implemented a system whereby everyone had their own plot of land and owned what they produced and could trade with others. Those who didn't work didn't eat. The result was a bountiful harvest and the first Thanksgiving.

Our Founders understood there would always be slackers and set up our Republican form of government with individual responsibility and limited government all based on individual freedom.

The problem is liberals believe people are depraved because they are deprived and if they are given things they will become productive members of society. The more affluent we have become from the 40's on the more desire there has been from the liberals to take the affluence from the producers and distribute it to the ones who follow their natural desire to live off the fruits of others.

We are now in a war as critical as any we have ever fought for our way of life. It is an open war which many of the establishment Republicans refuse to believe is happening. The liberals understand they are at war and are fighting. The establishment Republicans seem to feel we just have some "disagreements" and the liberals want the same things we want. The liberals want to destroy the Republican party and our current way of life and redistribute wealth from the producers to the moochers.

There are some who are unable to take care of themselves through no fault of their own whom society to take care of. But those who can take care of themselves and don't----no work, no eat.

dichotomy
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dichotomy 10/30/13 - 12:56 pm
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"There is only so much people

"There is only so much people will tolerate of others taking from them their freedom, property, and possessions"

We are too far down the path of freebies and giveaway socialism to correct the problem through the political process. Everyone knows that deep inside but nobody wants to say it. If the liberals continue to stay in power the economy will collapse from the debt burden and taxes. If the fiscal conservatives were to regain power and reduce payouts to the moochers there would be riots and killing in the streets. It's going to happen one way or the other. Since most Americans have lost their spines and seem to take everything with a whimper, I feel the civil war will become shooting war when the economic collapse happens. I would like to see it happen beforehand, while there is still something left to save.....but seeing the apathy of middle class working America and the tremendous growth of the government subsidy leeches, I think it will take a collapse to slap people in the face and make them see what has happened. But, of course, by then it will be too late. By then you will be shooting to protect yourself and your family. You will be killing for food and water....because the takers will be roaming the streets STILL TAKING. It's what we have trained them to do. We have never forced them to explore options other than taking from others. So soon you will have to kill them or be killed by them. Or will you be just as apathetic, passive and whimpering as you are today?

teaparty
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teaparty 10/30/13 - 03:17 pm
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dichotomy said, "It's what we
Unpublished

dichotomy said, "It's what we have trained them to do."
You hit the nail on the head. It started with the Great Society.

mrenee2003
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mrenee2003 10/30/13 - 07:33 pm
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Freedom

I am going to assume that the letter writer and his supporters think it's wrong for the government to interject in those areas most sacrosanct to personal freedom: reproduction, marriage, and death. You want limited government or you don't. You don't get to pick and choose.

Bodhisattva
6018
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Bodhisattva 10/30/13 - 07:54 pm
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Fake right wing non-history

Fake right wing non-history lesson. Total bull. Short version since Kindle zapped the full version. Pilgrims didn't have money for voyage or setting up a colony so they formed a joint stock company with Merchant Adventurers who put up the money in exchange for a seven year deal. "All land, livestock, and trade goods such as lumber, furs, and other natural resources were owned in partnership. At the conclusion of the seven-year period, the company was to be dissolved and the assets distributed." Not socialist at all, just a good old capitalist business transaction. In 1623, one of the ships that brought new settlers had a group that felt they had made a deal with Merchant Adventurers that was different than that made by the original settlers. They won out and were given private land. Plymouth became more successful, not because of private land, but because of increasing skill at growing native crops, such as corn and squash, which they didn't have in Europe. They also brought more skilled workers, tools, and livestock. Since only a little over 50 people survived until the first Thanksgiving, it's no wonder productivity increased as more and more ships brought more people and more supplies. There you go. Real history. No spin to the right or left.

KSL
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KSL 10/30/13 - 11:09 pm
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Bod, are you certain you are

Bod, are you certain you are living in a country that suits you? Or do you need to take to the waters like some of my ancestors did and board a brand new Mayflower

I have it. You are here now and everything you consider wrong neds to change to suit you.

Get your own Mayflower together.

teaparty
11313
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teaparty 10/31/13 - 08:21 am
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The funding for the Pilgrims
Unpublished

The funding for the Pilgrims to go to the New World was provided under a contract with London merchants who wanted an economic profit from the venture. Under that contract whatever they produced was to be put into a common warehouse, with each one getting one equal share. All the land, buildings and end product were communally owned.

Half of the Pilgrims died during the first winter, including Branford's wife. As governor, Bradford realized that collectivism had been a costly and destructive mistake. Bradford and others realized that socialism gave no incentive to the most creative and industrious among them to work any harder than anyone else. Collectivism had prevented the exercise of personal motivation.

Bradford wrote about the experience:

“The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tired sundry years . . . that by taking away property, and bringing community into a common wealth, would make them happy and flourishing -- as if they were wiser than God . . . “ “For this community [so far it was] was found to breed much confusion and discontent, and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For young men that were most able and fit for labor and service did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for others men's wives and children without recompense . . . that was thought injustice.”

The Pilgrims tried collectivism, socialism and communism and found that it produced slough, laziness and destroyed incentive. What did they do about it?

They trashed part of their contract with the London merchants; learned from the local Indians how to produce better crops and harvest more fish; assigned private property rights of land to all members; and, gave them the right to profit from their industry. What happened next?

Bradford wrote about this institution of Christian capitalism: “This had very good success for it made all hands industrious, so as much more corn was planted than otherwise would have been.”

Their excess product caused them to create Thanksgiving, not to thank the Indians for saving them, but to thank God for giving them a better way.

They did want to share with the Indians out of their bounty to express their appreciation for their help, but their celebration was to thank God. Thus, they instituted the Thanksgiving celebration that we have today. They paid off the London sponsors. Their success initiated the “Great Puritan Migration” which fostered the rapid colonization of America .

KasparHauser
362
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KasparHauser 11/01/13 - 11:18 am
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Reality Bleeds Through...
Unpublished

Finally, a rejoinder that doesn't invoke some Gawd or other fantasy 'solution' to address a real issue in Society.

Thank you, and though I don't completely agree it was cheering to see a nearly completely Reality-Based perspective!

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