Put the limit in perspective

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This is about the angry and continuing battle over the public debt limit. The only mention of the public debt in the Constitution is in the 14th Amendment, where, removing only the references to the Civil War, it reads “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law ... shall not be questioned.” The word “shall” has perhaps even a greater force of law than the word “must.”

A law was passed in 1917 that for the first time set a limit on the public debt. It caps the debt at an amount reset each time the debt limit has been reached. Any cap clearly conflicts with the words “shall not be questioned.” I find, then, the 1917 law to be clearly unconstitutional. Without that law, there is no cap, and we then resort to dealing with expanding the debt by routine acts of Congress and the president. Instead of setting a new limit, there is no limit and nothing need be done, thus removing it as a means to extract extreme demands for cutting spending, a particularly nasty recent practice, but one we can expect to be used regularly in the future.

It is worthwhile to recall how our debt got so high. In the 1980s, the Republican Party secretly adopted “starve the beast,” a ploy to deliberately increase the deficits. President George W. Bush continued on this plan, as he never gave any thought to pay for his trillion-dollar wars with increases in taxes. The idea eventually was to get the debt so high that the Democrats would be unable to institute any new major programs.

President Obama came along and managed, even with the big deficits, to get a start on universal health care, which is why the GOP has been so wild to see it doesn’t survive.

Victor Reilly

Aiken, S.C.

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t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 09:13 am
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LTE

"In the 1980s, the Republican Party secretly adopted “starve the beast,” a ploy to deliberately increase the deficits. President George W. Bush continued on this plan, as he never gave any thought to pay for his trillion-dollar wars with increases in taxes."

If this is true, then The Republicans started The US national debt and The Democrats are adding to it by trying to provide "humane" programs to the people.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 10/17/13 - 09:22 am
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T3....Do you understand how
Unpublished

T3....Do you understand how tax refunds work? Tell us exactly how you came up with the $2000 you would lose in "refunds."

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 09:44 am
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HA @ 9:22

"T3....Do you understand how tax refunds work? Tell us exactly how you came up with the $2000 you would lose in "refunds.""

I believe someone told me that taxes withheld dureing the year were considered loans. It is true that I don't have any withholdings, but I get a refund. I would gladly give it up if everyone else had to in order to pay down on the debt.

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 09:58 am
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Question

If The Democrats are known as "the tax and spend party", why shouldn't The Republicans be considered the party which will finally start paying off the national debt? The only way this is going to happen is to with hold all of these large tax refunds. If there was a totally run House, Senate, and president which would do this, then I say go for it!!

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 10:01 am
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"President Obama came along and managed, even with the big deficits, to get a start on universal health care, which is why the GOP has been so wild to see it doesn’t survive"

If Bush was allowed to go into two un-funded wars, then I guess Obamacare is the un-funded program for Obama.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 10/17/13 - 10:10 am
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I am sure the debt limit had

I am sure the debt limit had a useful purpose but now it isn't reducing the deficit or reducing deficit spending. I think we are about the only country with a debt limit and I think we need a new mechanism to deal with our debt and deficit spending.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 10/17/13 - 10:12 am
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So now Presidents have to top

So now Presidents have to top each other with bad policy and errors. Isn't it kind of hypocritical for Dems to raise hell about Bush when Obama does the same.

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 10:15 am
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"“starve the beast,” a ploy to deliberately increase the deficits. President George W. Bush continued on this plan, as he never gave any thought to pay for his trillion-dollar wars with increases in taxes"

Question: Considering Bush didn't go into office knowing he would start two un-funded wars, what would he have spent taxes on to continue the supposed "starve the beast" plan??

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 10/17/13 - 10:21 am
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" It is true that I don't
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" It is true that I don't have any withholdings, but I get a refund."

You are not getting a refund...you are leeching off of the taxpayers.

chascushman
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chascushman 10/17/13 - 10:25 am
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" For the life of me, I can't
Unpublished

" For the life of me, I can't understand why any foreign investor would risk buying U.S. debt."
Fundamental, actually not many 'foreign investors' are buying our debt. Around the end of 2010 we started monetizing our debt. In June 2009 Chairman Bernanke told congress, “The Federal Reserve will not monetize the debt.” He lied like the lying moron in the WH. The Fed is printing about $85 billion a month that is over $1 trillion a year. Guess what the deficient is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetization
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpollaro/2010/12/02/the-monetization-o...

nofanofobama
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nofanofobama 10/17/13 - 10:26 am
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1st..if you are not working

1st..if you are not working your tax refund is not a tax refund but a welfare program divied up by the IRS...we who get a refunf actually overpaid..its our money...t-3 big diference..you see that would be a tax increase to me if i gave it up.. ....but doesnt any one care about our future chidren and grandchildren still unborn that will have to foot the bill of todays greedy ruling class and dependant class..that is real greed..doesnt anyone care at all????????

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 10:28 am
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HA @ 10:21

"You are not getting a refund...you are leeching off of the taxpayers"

NOW, that is harsh! Since you think that I am something that I am not, tax math allows 3 dependents; one which works; to get a tax refund. BUT I would gladly give it up if everyone else had to!!

chascushman
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chascushman 10/17/13 - 10:32 am
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"FA, they do because we PAY
Unpublished

"FA, they do because we PAY our debts. If the debt limit isn't raised, to authorize payments on already authorized debts, we don't have the money make those payments."
GAc, please read my earlier post is VERY obvious that you are ILL informed.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpollaro/2010/12/02/the-monetization-o...

chascushman
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chascushman 10/17/13 - 10:34 am
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'NOW, that is
Unpublished

'NOW, that is harsh!'
Bledsoe, it may be harsh but it is absolutely true.

myfather15
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myfather15 10/17/13 - 10:36 am
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HA

Absolutely, they always lie about Bush giving trillions in tax breaks to the wealthy!!

I've never made over 50k in my life and I quite enjoyed Bush's tax breaks!! THIS, they will never mention!! The tax breaks were for EVERYONE!! Of course the rich save more with the tax breaks, because they MAKE MORE!! But mine meant just as much to me as their did to them!! 500 dollars to me is like $50,000.00 to them!!

Why won't they stop with the wealth envy and just tell the truth!! Bush's tax breaks were accross the board for EVERYONE!!

I enjoyed Bush's tax breaks MUCH more than I've enjoyed Obamas!! Why? Because Obama hasn't given any!! He said the poor would pay less in taxes and that was a LIE!! According to government regulations, I live in the poverty level; because I have a household of 6 and make less than 50k. I still haven't seen a single tax break from this liar in chief!!

KSL
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KSL 10/17/13 - 11:09 am
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bledsoe

I don't think anyone who does not pay federal income tax should get a "refund." You are getting a gift from the taxpayers. I have never agreed with that practice. I don't care what your circumstances are. You are free to give it back, by the way.

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 11:15 am
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KSL @ 11:09

"I don't think anyone who does not pay federal income tax should get a "refund." You are getting a gift from the taxpayers. I have never agreed with that practice. I don't care what your circumstances are. You are free to give it back, by the way"

WOW....Everyone is a critic. My wife does work so her income is the source of the refund.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 10/17/13 - 11:17 am
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Why does the president keep

Why does the president keep saying he has cut the deficit in half-that is a lie? That isn't true a Washington post article discusses how his deficit were over a trillion and only this year 2013 has he cut his own high deficit in half to 650 billion. So only now in his second term has he cut his own practice of trillion dollar deficits to half close to Bush years of less than that.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 10/17/13 - 11:22 am
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"Why does the president keep
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"Why does the president keep saying he has cut the deficit in half?"

Because he's a documented liar.

Darby
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Darby 10/17/13 - 12:40 pm
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"Much of that deficit was money spent to keep the

recession from becoming a depression."

.
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. It only demonstrates that you know NOTHING about economics!

"Republicans will lose the House next."

.
Not only is THAT not going to happen, Democrats will lose at least two seats in the Senate. Save this post and get back to me if I'm wrong!

"I'm sure there are some Republican spending priorities that can be reduced, I've never seen the House offer that."

You need to be a lot more specific on that. What GOP priorities would you cut? Oh, yes, I know.... defense!

As for tax breaks for the "wealthiest", that old cliché is getting worn to the bone.... Would you prefer tax breaks for those who don't pay taxes? Of course you would. But they get them already. They are called transfer payments, like EBT, SNAP, WIC, EIC and on and on and on..... YOUR "tax breaks" don't create jobs, don't create individual wealth and do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to bring down the deficit. As a matter of fact, YOUR tax breaks create dependency and foster a parasite mentality down through the generations.

Giving tax breaks to rich people is the ONLY way to facilitate a growth in the economy and create jobs.

But no one expects a Democrat to understand that. Without the rich, there would be NO economy and NO tax dollars for government to use to buy votes.

Again, Democrats think that money fall out of the sky or from a money tree or whatever. They certainly know nothing about job creation.

nofanofobama
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nofanofobama 10/17/13 - 11:49 am
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b4 one dime of the stimulis

b4 one dime of the stimulis bill was spent the recession was over..board of economist said it ended in APRIL OR may of 2009...all the stimulis money, quey 1 2 3 , deficit spending of trillions..what have we got...NOTHING..but deeper in debt..no benefits unless your in obumlers blessed circle of donors

Bizkit
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Bizkit 10/17/13 - 11:57 am
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Apparently Obama 2014 budget

Apparently Obama 2014 budget will only be 740 billion in deficit so still cut in half from his first term of trillion dollar deficits. I wonder how much the sequester influenced it? The reduction in 2014 will be from the planned dramatic new rises in taxes in people over $92,000 a year. The goal is wealthy is over 92K and redistribute the wealth of those over to make it equitable. Basically the state dictates wealth. Watch productivity decline like a Lead Zeppelin.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 10/17/13 - 12:21 pm
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I think Obama is definitely a

I think Obama is definitely a socialist who is experimenting with a new form of back door communism where the state doesn't regulate production but regulates wealth by redistribution to create a classless society. I didn't think "class" had anything to do with wealth. Look at Obama he is an extremely wealthy man and he has no class at all. HO, ho, ho.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 10/17/13 - 12:30 pm
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"If Bush was allowed to go
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"If Bush was allowed to go into two un-funded wars, then I guess Obamacare is the un-funded program for Obama."

Along with THREE unfunded wars.

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 04:39 pm
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HA @ 10:21

"" It is true that I don't have any withholdings, but I get a refund."

You are not getting a refund...you are leeching off of the taxpayers"

This is JUST TEXT-BOOK for why liberals don't care for conservatives. You asked if I know anything about taxes. Well, I must since I fill them out; ""LEGALLY""; every year. OK, so I bad mouth people who are on welfare getting refunds. There is an old question that I answer every time I do our taxes, "If you see a dollar on the ground, would you pick it up and keep it?" I don't make the tax rules, I just follow them like any good citizen should do!!

t3bledsoe
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t3bledsoe 10/17/13 - 04:43 pm
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HA @ 12:30

"Along with THREE unfunded wars"

Let's be real about these 3 wars. Bush started 2 of them, BUT I do agree that Obama should have gotten the troops out a long time ago.

rmwhitley
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rmwhitley 10/17/13 - 05:40 pm
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Victor Reilly
Unpublished

and his brothers-in-arms Lowell Greenbaum and Jaoquin Godoy need to get off of the tainted kool-aid they subsist upon.

Lee Benedict
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Lee Benedict 10/17/13 - 05:59 pm
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False comment

WRONG! Reagan had a Republican senate for his first SIX YEARS.

Remember in July 2008 when Obama went on and on and on about how George W. Bush, and I quote, "All by his lonesome" doubled the national debt and is burdening our children and our grandchildren and how W "runs to the national bank of China to borrow more money" (or something very very similar and how racking up alllll that debt is "unpatriotic"? Well? What say you now about Hussein? No POTUS can rack up debt all by his lonesome, and one would think that Obama knows as much...but he was free-speaking, i.e., no Teleprompters in sight. So by simply using Obama's very own words, please, you Obama-does-no-wrong disciples, state that Obama is unpatriotic and ALL BY HIS LONESOME racked up more debt that all US presidents combined.

myfather15
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myfather15 10/17/13 - 06:39 pm
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The ignorant citizens on the

The ignorant citizens on the streets that are following the like of Obama, Pelosi and Reid; are just pawns!! I don't believe THESE people know any better. They are just naive enough to believe all the lies coming from their leaders mouths!! Lies like republicans hate the poor, elderly and bla, bla, bla!!

They buy into these lies that liberal progressives are the true compassinate group and we aren't because we don't want to spend this Country into destruction!!

So, I have no ill will towards most citizens who believe this junk out of ignorance. But the Pelosi's, Reid's and Obama's; I truly believe they are intentionally destroying this Country!! Yes, I DO believe this with all my heart!! They want to bankrupt this Country, by continuing to spend, spend, spend; all under the disguise of "Helping".

Liberals are against EVERYTHING that would help make this Country financially independent, like drilling for more oil; but are FOR spending trillions more on anything!! They are against drilling in ANWR and off our coast, they were against the Keystone Pipeline; both things that would have HELPED this Country greatly!! They hide behind the disguise of environmentalists!!!

Yet, foreign oil companies (Petrobraz) is drilling OUR oil, off our coasts!! Unbelievable!!

I could go on with plenty more examples of things they are against that would make us stronger, but I'm tired and done typing. I just have to shake my head that so many are blind and ignorant to the liberal agenda!! They must tear this Country down, in order to rebuild it the way they want, period!!

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