Heaven has no short cuts

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I am awestruck that Pope Francis would say or imply that you do not have to believe in Christ or worship God to go to heaven – that if you “know good from evil” you have a free pass. We are not here to allow people to tell us that your sin is more important than our faith.

The pope also said atheists can go to heaven if they meet “certain moral obligations.” This is wisdom bringing confusion to a crowd of ignorance – ignorance of common sense and the facts. Where comes the faith and responsibility of Scripture? Is the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ now deemed meaningless? If atheists can take a short cut to heaven, why not the lowly murderer? He can say that he knows good from evil and chooses evil; will he go to heaven?

Evil has no logic so the pope’s comments can only come to an illogical conclusion that the old 1980s animated film was right – that all dogs can go to heaven.

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GodisSoGood
910
Points
GodisSoGood 09/24/13 - 10:10 am
2
2
Come as you are

Christ taught to "come as you are" to Him because it is only through Him, and Him alone, that we can be given new life. He NEVER abdicated "staying as your are". In fact, He told the woman at the well, after forgiving her sins, to "go and sin no more". He didn't tell her it was okay to continue in a life of adultery and fornication. Anyone who believes they can "stay as they are" after coming to Christ is deceived. Each one of us struggles with sin, and that's why we look to Christ to help us. The Pope certainly is deceived. And i have to wonder, why would he state an atheist can get to heaven? Do atheists even want to go to heaven since they do not believe in it?

Bizkit
32159
Points
Bizkit 09/24/13 - 10:15 am
2
1
I don't have a clue what the

I don't have a clue what the Pope said-I am taking in good faith that other posters are posting accurate info-but sheesh what was I thinkin'. I always teased protestants who balk at catholicism that odds are the person standing by you in heaven will be catholic-in fact most will be as catholics as they outnumber protestant by a factor of 2-3 world wide. During my secular childhood one of my best friends was catholic-and man did he get some heat-but I was always curious of his religion since most were protestant in the area. Now Fiat the "Rock" is still the rock as far as this Pope goes?

Bizkit
32159
Points
Bizkit 09/24/13 - 10:23 am
2
1
The "sin no more" is the hard

The "sin no more" is the hard part that can't be completed by human heart or mind but only through Christ and continuous renewing the mind by the Spirit. Still while many sins fall away easily others don't-and Paul had his thorn. The part of Christ message that riles folks is the "Go" part-spread the Gospel. I personally remember the disdain I held for a bunch of Jesus freaks and other religious zealots who would get in my face and my space-basically I was assaulted and felt justified to brush them off-and with force if need be. I didn't care what folks believed-as long as it does affect me then fine. That Go part is the offensive part to many-at least in this country cause other countries seem hungry for the Word.

GiantsAllDay
9695
Points
GiantsAllDay 09/24/13 - 10:29 am
5
5
From what I've seen so far, I

From what I've seen so far, I like pope Frank. After hundreds of years of priests, bishops and cardinals raping little children and getting away with it and having it all covered up by church leadership, finally the Catholic Church gets a pope who shall I say, acts un popelike? Which is a good thing! He shows a little compassion to ALL of gods children and tries to follow the Christ in which he professes to believe--and the entire Christian world goes nuts!! One of you even called the pope an athiest!! You people don't need me to ridicule you--you are doing it to yourselves.

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 10:34 am
3
2
WBC, Paul didn’t find the

WBC, Paul didn’t find the church, the church was establish by Christ by the receiving of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost and when Christ called His people to go into all the world, teaching and preaching the gospel.

No WBC, Christ never recommended women to be second-class citizens and neither did Paul. Paul just reinforced the duties and responsibilities of man given by God as the spiritual leader of the church and home, and that of the woman, to respect her husband, to tend to the children, learn quietly and be modest. Woman was created to be man’s helpmate, not to be the head, but to be along side him.

WBC, you asked “do you really think that an atheist, who followed all behavioral teachings of Christ, will fall afoul of the Father and be denied entrance to heaven? YES MOST CERTAINLY. We do not gain salvation and eternal life through our works but by the God’s grace through faith. Christ Himself told the young rich man “ And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good.” So if none of us are good enough, that just blows your theory about an atheist who does good deeds gets to go to heaven. It is through accepting and believing that Christ is the Son of God, died on the cross for our sinfulness and rose again and is sitting on the right hand of the Father. We are adopted into the family of God and it is through His righteousness we are saved....not by anything we do.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 09/24/13 - 10:35 am
4
4
I get it....speaking your
Unpublished

I get it....speaking your beliefs, that are contradictory to a leftist is "ridiculing yourself." Love the tolerance of the left.

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 10:50 am
2
2
Who called the pope an

Who called the pope an atheist?

edit** Nevermind, I found the comment

WalterBradfordCannon
1465
Points
WalterBradfordCannon 09/24/13 - 10:49 am
3
2
> christ said,i am the way

> christ said,i am the way the truth and the light ,
> no one comes to the Father but thru me

John 14:6

And Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And Matthew 19:16-21
And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

And Matthew 7 begins:
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

But here is something Paul would say (1 Timothy 5:20):
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

As I pointed out, Pope Francis is migrating the church of Paul to the church of Jesus. That's a good thing. There are other notable differences as well. Jesus teaches to pray in private, not in public, and to perform altruistic acts anonymously. Paul, on the other hand prefers a more public showing of prayer.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 09/24/13 - 10:50 am
3
3
myfather15 did at 6:21.
Unpublished

myfather15 said he was a well disquised athiest at 6:21.

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 11:04 am
3
4
WBC...LOL. What a way to

WBC...LOL. What a way to pull scripture out of context and use it to make your point (falsely I might add). How about discuss the whole chapter of 1 Timothy and discuss what it really means instead of 11 simples words pulled out to misconstrue the context.

This chapter is discussing widows, elders, and slaves in the community and how we are to teach, reprove, and discipline them in order to keep the community Righteous or Holy. This is a repeating of Christ commandment on how to keep his church Holy. If you have a sinner, go to that person and speak privately, if he refuses to repent, then bring along one or two fellow believers, if he still refuses to depart from sin, then bring him before the church.... This is what scripture is referring to. In verse 20, scripture is speaking about the deacons and elders in the church who are held to a higher accountability.

17 The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching. 18 For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,”[a] and “The worker deserves his wages.”[b] 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning. 21 I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favoritism.

You are such a false prophet WBC. You speak a good game but anyone who knows Christ, knows you are not being truthful....Christ tells us to pray quietly and in private but does not say we must ALWAYS pray quietly and in private. Even Christ himself prayed aloud on the cross to His Father when He said "Father forgive them".

nofanofobama
6856
Points
nofanofobama 09/24/13 - 11:08 am
2
1
scripture is to be taken in

scripture is to be taken in the totality..its is history unfolding..best explained in the context of** creation *fall*redemption**..no one can take a paragraph or verse out of any book and tell the whole story of that book.....and the verses wbc qoutes confirm the need of reconcilation of GOD and man thru CHRIST...in qouting PAUL you have to remember that Paul was dealing with churches that were straying away from the gospel of CHRIST..

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 11:09 am
3
1
WBC, first you imply an

WBC, first you imply an atheist can get to heaven by good deads, then you quote scripture saying you can only come to the Father through Christ.....Which is it that you believe?

GiantsAllDay
9695
Points
GiantsAllDay 09/24/13 - 11:13 am
3
3
You people, all claiming to

You people, all claiming to be Christians but arguing with each other on what god/Christ wants us to do.
1) if Christ lived at all, it was 2,000 years ago. Of all the authors in the NT, none were eyewitnesses.
2). If there is a god he is at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter than us. Professing to know what he thinks or feels is ridiculous, in my most humblest opinion.

"Working for the church
While your family dies
You take what they give you
And you keep it inside
Every spark of friendship and love
Will die without a home
Hear the soldier groan, "We'll go at it alone"

"Been working for the church
While your life falls apart
Singing hallelujah with the fear in your heart
Every spark of friendship and love
Will die without a home"

Arcade Fire-intervention

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 11:18 am
2
1
The goal of church discipline

The goal of church discipline is not to punish a failing brother or sister in Christ but to bring that person to the point of repentance so that he or she can turn away from sin and to restore their relationship with God and other believers.

I believe it is because we have been mislead about judging righteousness that we have allowed sin to silently creep into our churches and taken on the worldly characteristics of this sinful world that now those of the world are mascarading as Christians and Christians are mascarading as followers of this world.

InChristLove
22480
Points
InChristLove 09/24/13 - 11:35 am
3
2
GAD, we can know what God

GAD, we can know what God wants us to do....it's called prayer.

WalterBradfordCannon
1465
Points
WalterBradfordCannon 09/24/13 - 11:45 am
3
2
Christ says that praying in

Christ says that praying in public leads to instantaneous rewards that have nothing to do with the Father. Private prayer pays homage appropriately. Or do you prefer praying as the publicans do?

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 09/24/13 - 12:11 pm
5
3
"WBC, first you imply an
Unpublished

"WBC, first you imply an atheist can get to heaven by good deads, then you quote scripture saying you can only come to the Father through Christ.....Which is it that you believe?"

My guess is that he doesn't believe at all......and that as usual is trying to use scripture in a "gotcha" moment.

WalterBradfordCannon
1465
Points
WalterBradfordCannon 09/24/13 - 01:13 pm
3
1
The Paul vs. Jesus statements

The Paul vs. Jesus statements can go on all day. Many times I have wondered if Paul himself actually read the gospel.

1 Corinthians
But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Mark 2:
And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

GiantsAllDay
9695
Points
GiantsAllDay 09/24/13 - 01:49 pm
1
4
I'm still trying to figure

I'm still trying to figure out how come the Catholic Church didn't get brought up on RICO charges for running a vast pedophilia network and hiding it from the public.

justthefacts
22198
Points
justthefacts 09/24/13 - 02:02 pm
4
1
http://www.catholicvote.org/what-pope-francis-really-said-about-

In conclusion: "At the end of the day, could Pope Francis have been a little clearer about what he was trying to say? Sure. That’s the risk of delivering off the cuff sermons. The real fault, I think, lies with the theologically-illiterate press corps, whose understanding of basic Catholic doctrine is so infinitesimal that it is increasingly unable to report on the Catholic Church without completely embarrassing itself."

nofanofobama
6856
Points
nofanofobama 09/24/13 - 02:20 pm
3
1
if one does not understand

if one does not understand the biblical teaching that all are quility b/4 GOD..then one will not understand what CHRIST meant about the analogy of the physician..

CobaltGeorge
160946
Points
CobaltGeorge 09/24/13 - 02:36 pm
1
2
Got A Question?

What would life be like if all humans on this here planet "earth" had no faith or belief in SOMETHING that was bigger than themselves?

CobaltGeorge
160946
Points
CobaltGeorge 09/24/13 - 02:37 pm
0
2
My Answer,

Non-existence!

Bizkit
32159
Points
Bizkit 09/24/13 - 02:41 pm
2
1
Well GAD Christians run the

Well GAD Christians run the gamut of pedophile, homosexual, murderer, adulterer, etc. ad infinitum just like everyone else. Many Biblical figures were the same too. The Church should have realized you can't hide darkness-the light always finds it. The BTK serial killer was a deacon in a church too. Just demonstrates the heart and nature of mankind which is the backdrop of everything. The reason many people seek faith for hope, teach them altruism, love, many just want be a human being rather than an animal, and peace. I tried Buddhism when I was younger and into martial arts but it was a philosophy and not a religion. The Buddha reminds me of Christ in some of his philosophy. Lots of similarities between many religions hence universalism was a logical endpoint. But to me any person who claims a faith should be fanatical they are correct with their faith. Just like any opinion do you really hold to your guns or not? I respect other faiths and peoples adherence and dedication to their faith or lack of faith-just as I would appreciate the same respect-but that doesn't negate how adamant a believer or non-believer will be to the validity of that opinion.

CobaltGeorge
160946
Points
CobaltGeorge 09/24/13 - 02:49 pm
1
2
If

every Past, Present and Future human lived under the small rules of the 10 Commandments, This whole planet would be nothing but a "Garden Of Eden".
The 10 rules not longer exist, so, we all live in what we have now, Birth - Not Happy - Death.

Little Lamb
46405
Points
Little Lamb 09/24/13 - 04:02 pm
2
1
Timeline

WalterBradfordCannon posted:

The Paul vs. Jesus statements can go on all day. Many times I have wondered if Paul himself actually read the gospel.

No, Paul did not read them. He died before they were written and disseminated.

WalterBradfordCannon
1465
Points
WalterBradfordCannon 09/24/13 - 04:13 pm
1
1
Little Lamb, that is quite

Little Lamb, that is quite true.

Bizkit
32159
Points
Bizkit 09/24/13 - 04:17 pm
2
1
Fiat is correct the article

Fiat is correct the article is passing misinformation from the mainstream media trying to portray the Pope as changing catholicism to a secular form-just like they tried to portray the Pope accepts homosexuality and it isn't a sin-which isn't what he said either. The Pope is saying the same thing the church has always said basically from what I can tell. Remember first the media was all over him for mentioning Satan. You can't hardly believe anything you read anymore. Thanks Fiat for the heads up.

t3bledsoe
14290
Points
t3bledsoe 09/24/13 - 04:16 pm
1
2
Quote from LTE

"The Pope also said atheists can go to heaven if they meet “certain moral obligations"

Some people, like I used to be, don't understand there is a difference between an atheist and an agnostic. Atheist believe that man came from apes. Agnostics doubt and / don't believe in God. In my opinion, it would be concivable that an atheist could go to heaven, but probably not an agnostic.

t3bledsoe
14290
Points
t3bledsoe 09/24/13 - 04:20 pm
0
1
Quote from LTE

"We are not here to allow people to tell us that your sin is more important than our faith"

ARE 'WE" here to tell anyone anything about sin vs. faith?? Isn't that the job of God the Father-Son-and Holy Spirit?

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