Science is mankind's savior

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Nary does a week transpire when I don’t have to explain myself to contemporary yet medieval Christians in Augusta. When informed I’m a nonbeliever, I get a nexus of calumnious and obstreperous questions. Examples include:


• “Why are you mad at God?” These people aren’t listening. How can I be mad at something in which I don’t believe?

• “Why do you worship the devil/Satan?” These people aren’t listening. I worship no deities. You and I only differ by “one.”

• “If you don’t believe or read the Bible, from where do your morals come?” My morals stem from my parents, my family, my friends and myself.

And speaking of reading the Bible, perhaps more Christians should read the Bible from cover to cover (estimated at just 10 percent of Christians worldwide) instead of regurgitating those ubiquitous, oft-quoted, cherry-picked Scriptural quotations.

Moreover, there’s a monumental difference between the questions I’m asked and the questions I pose. My questions are ineptly answered. Believers give me answers from the Bible, then verify those answers with the Bible. What kind of circular reasoning is that? Religion arrogantly gives mankind answers not to be questioned, while man’s true savior – science – humbly probes mankind’s unanswered questions. And just for the record, “God works in mysterious ways” is an embarrassingly inadequate answer.

I’m no better than believers, and they’re no better than me. That’s egalitarianism. Yet, believers still want to condescendingly invoke sanctimonious superiority by praying for me as though they possess super powers I lack. Save your prayers, because prayers never work, regardless of what believers think. I’ll paraphrase the self-fulfilling prophecy: If you keep telling yourself it’s true, even if evidence is to the contrary, sooner or later you’ll actually believe it to be true. And please, save the “he’s taking the Bible out of context” or “he doesn’t understand Scripture” semantic retorts for another time.

Questions:

Why does God want women to be second-class chattel? (I Timothy 2:11-12)

Why do we still have wickedness if Noah’s Ark and God’s global flood (the plagiarized story of Utnapishtim and the Great Flood from Gilgamesh, which pre-dates the Bible by millennia) was God’s homage to wickedness? (Genesis 6:5-7)

Maybe it’s because “God works in mysterious ways,” right? Jettison your confirmation bias, neutralize the self-fulfilling prophecy I mentioned earlier, be hesitant of your heterodoxies, set your mind to tabula rasa mode and read your entire Bible. Maybe you’ll ask yourself the same question I pondered: How could I have ever been so gullible?

Have you any substantive questions for me?

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specsta
8749
Points
specsta 08/21/13 - 02:02 am
10
12
Seeking Truth

Part of the reason that there are many non-believers is because of the behavior of the believers. Many of the believers think that they know EVERYTHING. It's quite irritating.

I am one who does believe in God and the Trinity - but the main basis of my belief is that it is a personal relationship, unique and different from everyone else's experience. It is my unique intimacy with my Creator.

The problem comes when certain believers feel that it is their duty to educate and inform you of what THEY believe to be true. These are the ones who condemn any behavior that they don't agree with. They think they have all the answers and are fit to pass judgement on others.

Well, here's a truth - you really know NOTHING. Human beings don't even know what is at the bottom of the deepest caverns in the ocean. They have no idea about how vast space truly is. They cannot comprehend the concept of eternity, yet this class of "believers" condemn those who they disagree with - to an eternal hell.

How cruel must God be to send a frail creature such as a man or woman that He created to burn and suffer and be tortured without end? What would be the point of even existing as a human? I would not wish that on my worst enemy and I am human - not God. That cruelty is not the God whom I believe in.

These rigid "believers" suck the life out of life, with their rules and dogma and finger-pointing. They are a nasty lot - and who wants to be around them? Some of the most enjoyable moments in my life have been around people who don't feel the need to say "yes and amen" in every conversation - and some of my worst moments have been around "Christians" who won't hesitate to tell a person how rotten they are and what will happen if they don't follow man-made rules of salvation. But these "believers" are so holy, they literally float on air in their minds.

There is deception and confusion among these believers and they are the reason that many folks have thrown up their hands and rejected the church.

Better to seek God and faith on your own, building a personal relationship, than to deal with these folks.

carcraft
34987
Points
carcraft 08/21/13 - 05:33 am
10
5
AW gee, no cultural context included

Lets look at the Bible as if it were written today and there is no understanding of the cultural context it came from and then turn it on it's ear. Sounds good to me. Can I do the same with science? Are we going to have a new ice age as predicted in the 80's by climate scientists or are we going to have global warming due to mankind and CO2, since CO2 levels have risen and temperature has been flat. Oh never mind...

soldout
1287
Points
soldout 08/21/13 - 06:20 am
9
9
Jeff is a man of tremendous faith

It takes a lot of faith to see a creation without there being a creator. Designs with no designer and everything came from nothing. Folks that is faith that I don't have it. The Bible is the best history and science book around and it you run what is being said in science, history, relationships, medicine and every other aspect of your life through your Bible filter you end up with views you never have to change. Science is constantly changing trying to catch up with the Bible. Science said earth was flat when the Bible said it was round. It is strange that most Godless folks are upset that a God they don't believe in is going to send them to a place they don't think exists. My relationship with Christ causes me to have eternal life, joy, peace, have all my needs met, plus the Godless receive many blessings from me because of it, and I lose nothing if I am wrong. However if you are wrong ..........

ymnbde
13659
Points
ymnbde 08/21/13 - 07:01 am
6
5
oh glorious ignorance, rise!

and bleed thyself with the leeches of science
ahh, when the soft bigotry of the atheist
meets the hard indignation of the ignorant
arrogance can rise to slip the surly bonds of flesh
and dwell in one's own edenic nothing

localguy55
5477
Points
localguy55 08/21/13 - 07:44 am
9
4
There are no atheist

It is said that in a time of war you will not find an atheist in a fox hole. I think this is true. Atheism is a convenient excuse for those not able to grasp the truth of what religious faith means. They key on the bad things done by man in the name of a faith and dismiss the teachings as misguided. In one way or another the belief in a deity (supreme being) , especially Christianity, has shaped the civilized world for better or worse for more than two Millenia. Could deductive reasoning not conclude then that without this belief, civilization would not have progressed to the point it has. After all, we are surrounded with reminders of the association of our religious belief and our culture and governance. Deny it if you want, for better or worse, there is no getting around the influence religious beliefs have had on humanity.

deestafford
45100
Points
deestafford 08/21/13 - 08:26 am
7
5
Just move on.

You can't save the unsavable. Nor forcefully educated the ignorant.

lovingthesouth72
1410
Points
lovingthesouth72 08/21/13 - 08:46 am
8
3
One leads to the other

An in depth scientific study will lead you, inevitably, to the creator of science itself. Just like a great work of art points you to the sculptor or painter, so does the beauty of a newborn child or the majestic mountain or colorful sunset lead you to the Creator himself. Nature is so perfect that someone non-other than Perfection himself could have created such intricacies and wonders.

Fiat_Lux
19584
Points
Fiat_Lux 08/21/13 - 08:56 am
7
5
He's not talking about a science savior, folks.

He just talking about not believing in God because he hasn't found convincing evidence of Him.

Too bad. Anyone who arrives at the place where they want to see, will see. People of faith are flawed, weak, often selfish and usually pretty inarticulate. That doesn't invalidate their faith nor belie the very existence of God.

BTW, the Bible is not a book to be read "cover to cover". It is a collections of works, God speaking to and through men and women at various times throughout history and for many, many reasons. People and societies grew in their sophistication and technology over the several thousand years of the Bible's creation, therefore, what was most important and what was best for the eternal souls of the individual would have changed.

Can you imagine warning an Egyptian slave of the dangers of trichinosis? Better to make a rule against eating pork for the millenia that preceded the microscope. And how do you explain to a 14 year old boy that it's in his future best interests to respect his parents, to honor their wishes and follow their guidance in order to be a success in life? Having that come as a directive from the Almighty sees a lot of young men through a tough period in their lives, before they can understand the wisdom.

If there are rules and laws and standards that make no sense to you, there is a very good chance that you don't have the perspective or the experience to appreciate them. Sometimes, you simply have to take it on faith that someone knows more than you do about some causal relationships.

We sure do that when it comes to phenomena such as gravity and even the fact of life itself. If you can explain how carbon-based collections of molecules arranged themselves so that they spontaneously came to life, I'd love to hear your take on it. Of course, you'd have to include a statement about what life even is, as opposed to electricity or heat or light, for your explanation to have any meaning.

nofanofobama
8017
Points
nofanofobama 08/21/13 - 09:04 am
6
4
whats the point of this LTE.

whats the point of this LTE. so he can brag about disbelief..PAUL write's if CHRIST is not raised from the dead and did not ascend into heaven..then we christians ought to be pitied for believing in CHRIST..[PARAPHRASED]. last time i checked the grave is empty!!!!! so we got varing degrees of non-believers from those who mock us, dont care one way or another or physically perscute us...its not new ...its the same since the fall of man...if i worried about what they think of me as a christian, i would NOT have my eyes set right.. as paul states our eyes are set on the goal, the prize, the end..reunion with GOD because of CHRIST..

impossible
127
Points
impossible 08/21/13 - 09:38 am
0
0
Where's author's substance?
Unpublished

Author asked for some substantive questions, so I ask these of him and ask for some substantive answers that can be substantiated by science: 1. Have scientists ever analyzed or measured "nothing" under a microscope or in a petri dish? 2. If a big bang explains the creation Christians attribute to God, what/who produced the matter /substance that exploded? 3. Can or has science demonstrated (scientifically of course) an efficient cause of or for "nothing"? 4. Has or can science demonstrate or cause an effect/substance without first having at hand an efficient cause? 5. Author, author can you who probably subscribes to evolution explain to us or scientifically demonstrate nothing evolving into something? I will wait for your substantive replies but, believing in science I don't want to die trying to talk sense to you. I will therefore not hold my breath. Nice going Fiat Lux. I want to see Howcanweknow's take on the letter.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 09:32 am
4
2
Evolution and science tells

Evolution and science tells us we are just another animal on the planet and that life really has no more meaning for a bacteria or mouse as for a man. Now you can create your delusion there is meaning either through religion or humanism but what science says is there is no meaning to life- at best the most important thing we do is reproduce. Anything else is just stuff we make up. Science says humans hold no special place on the planet or in the universe. Now I know people will say life has meaning, and that is fine, but it ain't based on science-just delusion so pick your delusion. Science tells us that religions evolved and thus have served a purpose just like science that has evolved. But people will argue that science addresses many of the same issues of faith and is an evolutionary improvement. But that is ignorant because evolution is not orthogenetic (it has no direction nor does it always produce improvements) so the gradual extinctions of religions (which apparently is happening like many species presently as we are in another global extinction event) may not be a step in the right direction. I love science and I love religions too but the letter writer starts off with a wrong conclusion that the two are incompatible or that one trumps the other. Now you don't need a religion to find meaning-but both have to be equally delusional as far as science says now. The same logical abilities of modern man has given rise to religions and science, and both stir lots of debates and are two-edged swords.

effete elitist liberal
3474
Points
effete elitist liberal 08/21/13 - 09:37 am
6
4
I lose nothing if I am wrong. However....

This is Pascal's Wager, or as it really should be called, "Pascal's Cop-out."
It takes real courage to be an atheist.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 09:41 am
2
3
Well since science is a

Well since science is a process and has been mostly wrong-otherwise it wouldn't have taken so long to make the progress we've made-then how can you be so gullible to believe anything science transiently says? Is coffee good or bad for you, science so far says vaccines have nothing to do with autism (but still the concerns persist and who knows what future studies may find), astrobiology is really enamored with the idea of panspermia which really has little scientific basis for something that is suppose to be a science. We are genetically modifying life quicker that we can speak and this science will likely have long lasting detrimental effect to ecosystems and our environment. So you can find an answer in a Bible or a science book but it depends on which you believe and put your faith. After all atheism is a religion so they have faith too-just faith there is no god.

impossible
127
Points
impossible 08/21/13 - 10:03 am
0
0
Specsta's gazing
Unpublished

She won't find the answers by gazing into her navel no matter how often she might try. Her past ramblings as well as herein clearly demonstrate that point. A compass to be of any use has to have a true north which one of necessity has to find outside of themselves unless of course they claim as she apparently does to be omniscient.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 09:45 am
3
3
To date most notable

To date most notable scientist like Sagan, Hawkins, etc. say we will likely destroy ourselves with our technology-science. So apparently many scientist believe we will destroy ourselves with science. So apparently it isn't the savior as many had hoped.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 09:50 am
1
2
I was an atheist for close to

I was an atheist for close to 50 years-it's incredibly easy. Much more difficult to believe in what people classify as "myth". Well maybe not after watchin' Finding Bigfoot. LOL>

effete elitist liberal
3474
Points
effete elitist liberal 08/21/13 - 09:54 am
5
3
Bizkit

"...evolution is not orthogenetic...." You're right, but there are many of us who accept the fact of evolution, not just in nature, but also in science and religion. Evolution, whatever else it may contain, involves random variations and a selection process. In nature the selection process is survival to the point of reproduction: nature does the selecting. In science and religion, the selection process is analogous, but human beings do the selecting. We accept, use, and extend scientific theories and religious tenets that are useful to us and reject those that are not.
The bottom line: it is much more helpful to think of scientific theories and religious tenets which large numbers of people accept not as TRUE, but as USEFUL. When the utility of beliefs in either science or religion declines, new scientific theories and religious tenets will take their place.
That is what evolution means.

impossible
127
Points
impossible 08/21/13 - 10:00 am
0
0
Is Bizkit fully baked?
Unpublished

Yes, some religions have evolved by accomodating the culture instead of faithfully and consistently trying to conform the culture to Biblical standards. i.e. the Ten Commandments cannot be evolved to excuse unexcusable behavior. The latter silliness is scientifically demonstrated by the mess in which we find ourselves. Some highly placed clerics have unwittingly or stupidly joined the utopian effort to replace God with Big Government - Obamacare is a prime example. Now those clerics complain about the attacks on religious freedom. The Frankenstein they helped to create has jumped off of the "scientific" table and bit them in the posterior. These clerics have been on the progressive bandwagon since the early 1900's, and either there are not enough good ones or enough with the courage to end their partisan follies.

carcraft
34987
Points
carcraft 08/21/13 - 10:05 am
1
5
Lets look at what society with out God has offered

Communism has killed over 60 million people in a 100 year period. 26 million in Russia, perhaps up to 20 to 50 million in China, 6 million in Cambodia etc, etc, etc. I would rather put my faith i God. I have experianced the reality of God in my heart and life. I have also seen the REALITY that Christian's ended Slavery in the western world, laid the ground work and provided the support for the civil rights movement and promoted the dignity of peole all over the World, (look at the Nun in Calcutta, Mother Teresa). Now look at communism and it''s EPIC destruction of human rights and dignity!

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 10:09 am
2
0
EEL, I agree. I find personal

EEL, I agree. I find personal usefulness for both science and religion. It doesn't have to be true. Like Joe Campbell says-The Power of Myth. I don't think religions and science should reject each other or be at odds. And I'm concerned how many christians are rejecting all science along with evolution-it really bugs me with anti-vaccination hysteria. Evolution has nothing to do with creation or the origin of life so Christians can lower their guard. You can be a scientist and believe in science and still be a person of faith too. This and-or mentality and science "disproves" or trumps faiths is a false argument.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 10:14 am
2
2
The scientific process isn't

The scientific process isn't divine just a means for man to study the universe and physical phenomena. It doesn't mean it is without error or bias-it is just the best means we've come up with so far. People see faiths and science as two heads but it's two sides of the same face.

pearlthesquirrel
786
Points
pearlthesquirrel 08/21/13 - 10:23 am
0
0
Tomorrow
Unpublished

Yes, tomorrow is the day the letters to the editor start....the day the letters start without answering J.M.'s questions. The "philosophy-sizers" will write in and NOT answer the questions. I remember a letter this cat wrote last year about Ric Perry and prayer NOT working - or something along those lines....at least that was the point of his letter - that prayer did NOT work. Every letter that came afterwards NEVER gave an example of prayer working. Letter writers just "philosophi-sized." If you want to write a letter to the editor, write a letter with "proof" of the opposing point. But, we know that's not going to happen.

Jon Lester
2480
Points
Jon Lester 08/21/13 - 10:27 am
3
0
Most people of faith are poorly served by their shepherds.
Unpublished

I learned more scripture in my 30's than I ever did growing up in church, and once I was turned on to the Strong's concordance (the one and only reason to study with a KJV Bible, because every single word is indexed to the Aramaic/Chaldee, Greek and Hebrew sources), I was amazed at how epidemic bad teaching is across the major religions. I think people need to know what they're talking about, whether they believe the articles of faith or not.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 10:36 am
2
0
Jon that is why Christianity

Jon that is why Christianity has evolved from the divide of Catholicism (eastern and western ortodoxy)and Catholic- Protestant divide to the further divide of Protestants. Obviously there is a lot of false doctrine as Christ warned.

pearlthesquirrel
786
Points
pearlthesquirrel 08/21/13 - 10:51 am
0
0
Soldout @ 6:20
Unpublished

"It takes a lot of faith to see a creation without there being a creator."
Then who created God or where did God come from?

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 11:04 am
1
1
We are in an evolutionary

We are in an evolutionary religious arm's race within the abrahamic religions. As evolutionary "memes" (which is now going out of vogue) they need to replicate- and all do so this trait is passed on, but Islam has an advantage because it also part govt. and specifically evokes violence. Odds are Islam will dominate the planet with christianity and Judaism becoming like blue eyes a rarity. Note secular Muslim nations are moving towards theocracies. Europe is predicted to become predominately muslim in the near future cause of immigration and europeans aren't reproducing. You can't beat evolution. Right now atheism is growing in the US but I predict that will be short lived with Islam becoming the predominate religion within 100 years. European whites aren't reproducing on this continent either so evolution in action. First Hispanics will bring back a catholic surge but it won 't last as Muslims grow in population. One culture replacing another is a scientific fact of evolution.

effete elitist liberal
3474
Points
effete elitist liberal 08/21/13 - 10:57 am
4
2
"This and-or mentality..."

Bizkit. It is refreshing to read anyone who agrees with much of anything I post, so thanks for that. The idea that we should consider both science and religion as potentially USEFUL rather than TRUE is increasingly fundamental in contemporary philosophy, and challenges so-called foundational thinking in either science or religion. The problem is that neither most scientists nor most religious people are willing to accept their beliefs as provisional, useful, but not true. What is useful today may not be useful tomorrow, but truth--at least in theory--always remains truth. I reject the conventional concept of truth in both science and religion.

I do not agree with you, however, when you say there are no conflicts between science and religion. There are many. Take the religious idea that humans were created by God instantaneously, and pretty much in the their current form. Science says something very different, and any efforts to make the explanations compatible involves the assertion that the Biblical version must be taken metaphorically, a view rejected by Christians who insist the Bible should be read literally. The scientific view and the literal Biblical view are in direct contrast. We must choose between them, and here is where the "usefulness" concept comes in. More and more people every day accept the evolutionary explanation, simply because it is much more useful in both predicting scientific advances and interpreting empirical evidence. Eventually, the evolutionary model will prevail almost universally and the number of creationists will dwindle into insignificance.

impossible
127
Points
impossible 08/21/13 - 11:27 am
0
0
EEL'S truth is not objective truth
Unpublished

Eel's truth is not objective truth. God is truth, and truth/God does not change or evolve. Truth is what it is and not what pedantic sycophants admiring their navels claim it to be or prefer it to be. Jesus is God and he founded one religion and it hasn't evolved and will not evolve. Like truth, it is what it is. It has been and always will be attacked but, as Jesus promised, the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. With God there is no time but rather an "instant now" so the vagaries of history are just that - vagaries. But truth prevails throughout.

Bizkit
46414
Points
Bizkit 08/21/13 - 11:43 am
2
0
Richard Dawkins was

Richard Dawkins was speculating alien intervention in human evolution so far fetched ideas are common even amongst the scientific elite. The astrobiologicsl idea of panspermia I particularly find far fetched too. We can really only say "evolution applies to all life descended from the last universal ancestor. Life before that is fair game for any idea- it may have been in hardy Weinberg equlibrium with no mechanism for change ( most of evolution preserves traits more than produces change )as sex nor mutation hadn't developed on the planet. More and more viruses and HGT are being considered as driving forces in evolution, nor is natural selection considered the only mechanism to produce adaptive change- which is like a heresy. The bible isn't a science book and I am not sure what is the meaning of Genesis or Revelations and which is part is symbolic or real But all the great myths have elements of truthu
, and I think the bible does address human events such as a great flood beinganexplanation for devastating the human population producing a bottleneck. Evidence indicates the possibility in human evolution and this story may address this episode of human history.

myfather15
59559
Points
myfather15 08/21/13 - 11:45 am
4
4
I WILL save my prayers; because believe it or not,

There ARE people whom we should NOT pray for!! I also won't bother using scripture. BUT, I will say I don't believe Mr. Miller for a single second!! He made up stories, so he could write an article bashing Christianity, period.

" “Why are you mad at God?”

" “Why do you worship the devil/Satan?”

Seriously, someone actually ask you these questions, simply because you don't believe? You expect us ignorant simpletons to believe this junk? I've had many conversations with atheists and NEVER have these questions entered my mind. Nor have I ever heard a fellow Christian ask these questions. The questions are OBVIOUSLY questions thought up in the mind of a Christian hating atheist, to further their point.

I could think of MUCH better questions!!! But I certainly will NOT to this person. I will NOT cast my pearls before swine for them to stomp on!!

This man is nothing but another atheist LP who believes himself to highly intelligent to believe in such non-sense!! He believes MANKIND to be the highest power, and HE to be one of the highest of mankind!! It quite clear!!

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