Can both stand ground?

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This letter is to all the legal eagles in our area in regard to the Stand Your Ground Law.

When the Trayvon Martin case first came to light, I had thought that both Martin and Neighborhood Watch captain George Zimmerman could use the Stand Your Ground Law, as it
applied to both.

However during the trial I believed Zimmerman would be found guilty, as he was the stalker giving Martin the right to punch his lights out.

Was Martin given the right to protect himself under the law?

Michael Ferguson

Augusta

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mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 12:25 pm
0
2
You are making things up

because you have nothing to go on.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:27 pm
2
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What did I make up?
Unpublished

What did I make up? I surely didn't make up that Zimmerman murdered someone.....let me check and see who did that............

I have nothing to go on? How about all of the facts of the case?

Sean Moores
1061
Points
Sean Moores 07/22/13 - 12:32 pm
2
0
Keep it civil

Fair warning.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:32 pm
3
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I'm trying, Sean.....I'll do
Unpublished

I'm trying, Sean.....I'll do better.

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 12:34 pm
1
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I've yet to see any facts

I've yet to see any facts pertinent to the case that change anything. Now I see going after Z for a cousin saying they had sexual play starting when she was 6 years old and he was 7. This is getting to be hilarious.

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 12:35 pm
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2
HA

What were the facts of the case, HA? Bottom line, all we have is GZ's word and he is a liar. A liar that tried to steal the money the public donated for his defense. He's a liar with a history of violence. The forensic evidence suggested that TM was over GZ when the shot was fired. So what? That does not prove that GZ didn't start it and does not prove that TM wasn't scared. GZ used self-defense and all the jury could consider was whether or not they believed he felt his life was in danger. They had no choice with those instructions. It didn't matter that GZ followed that kid that night and that he might have been scared as his girlfriend said he was. (Interesting, BTW, how many people don't believe her but they sure believed the Cracker part - that part was the truth, huh?). You are defending a monster. TM had his own demons, like I said NUMEROUS times.

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 12:42 pm
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2
Witness 9

said it occurred over a period of 10 years with the last incident happening when she was 16 and he was 17. And I don't believe she used the term, "sexual play." Don't change what she said.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:45 pm
2
0
Zimmerman's finances was not
Unpublished

Zimmerman's finances was not evidence in the case. If you want to charge him with that, so be it, but it's not murder.

"The forensic evidence suggested that TM was over GZ when the shot was fired. So what? That does not prove that GZ didn't start it and does not prove that TM wasn't scared."
Guess what....burden of proof is in the prosecutor. Again...we deal with provable facts.

"It didn't matter that GZ followed that kid that night and that he might have been scared as his girlfriend said he was. "
THAT statement IS true...it does NOT matter. Because having someone follow you does not justify hitting them.

Looks like YOU could be defending a monster who thought it was ok to beat someone for following them.....according to the provable facts of the case as determined by the jury.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:47 pm
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Seems that monster you say
Unpublished

Seems that monster you say I'm defending rescued someone from a car crash. Way to go, monster. Let's see the list of good deeds Martin was responsible for.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/07/george-zimmerman-saves-car-crash-vi...

t3bledsoe
14291
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t3bledsoe 07/22/13 - 12:48 pm
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1
HA @ 1:32

"I'm trying, Sean.....I'll do better"

Chill-out !! This is not life and death you know !

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 12:54 pm
0
1
Yes

I do believe you should be able to defend yourself against someone who is following you. I really don't u/s why it's lawful to follow people. I am curious if I were to call the police and report that someone was following me, what would the response be? If it's lawful to be followed, I have to assume the 911 dispatcher would tell me there is nothing they can do about it. Right? I mean being that there is nothing wrong with people following you as so many people have pointed out. What should a 17 year old girl do if she is being followed then? Calling 911 is out because it's not against the law to follow someone. Based on quite a few comments on this forum, most people believe that TM should have gone home. I was always taught to never lead a stranger back to my home but the consensus here seems to be that is what he should have done. So, getting back to the 17 year old girl. She can't call 911, despite the views here, I still don't think she should go to her home, so she's walking around and getting followed and no one else is around. What should she do? Defenders of the it's OK to follow people, please weigh in.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:55 pm
2
0
Tim....not going to answer
Unpublished

Tim....not going to answer the question as to why you think the jury wasn't fair?

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 12:58 pm
2
0
The actual words used by

The actual words used by Zimmerman's cousin was that starting when Z was 7 and she was 6, Z would sexually "molest" her yearly when they got together for family reunions for about 10 years. Of course none of that was admitted in court.

Just as the jewels found in Martin's backpack he claimed he was holding for someone was turned into the police by the safety officer as found property was not allowed. That was as they were suspending him again.

t3bledsoe
14291
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t3bledsoe 07/22/13 - 12:58 pm
0
2
mrenee2003 @ 11:26

"I didn't dispute the forensic evidence. The fact that the evidence suggests TM was over GZ when the gun was fired does not mean TM started the fight nor does it mean he was not horribly frightened and felt a need to defend himself against GZ. The law in Florida states that a person can use self-defense if he reasonably believed that force was "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm" to himself. Perhaps that's what he felt but, who knows, because he is dead."

I have to agree with ALL of this statement ! How can you conservatives expect ANYONE to believe GZ about the (facts??) of this case ??!!

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 12:58 pm
2
0
Following is legal....If they
Unpublished

Following is legal....If they attack, it's a different story.

And YES your hypothetical 17 year old girl CAN call 911 if she is being followed. That is her recourse....not to turn back and start a fight with the person following her. Call the police, have them show up and escort, and be prepared to defend yourself if you are attacked, but you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to start the fight.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:07 pm
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You don't have to just
Unpublished

You don't have to just believe GZ.....his story is backed up by forensic evidence, and by eye witnesses.

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 01:07 pm
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1
HA

But if it's not against the law, why call 911? If people have a right to follow you and it's not breaking the law, why would the police even respond?

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:11 pm
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0
You call 911 for your safety
Unpublished

You call 911 for your safety if you are scared. If they don't respond, then be prepared to defend yourself. that's why I'm prepared to defend myself....in case they don't respond or don't respond fast enough, but I'm not going to turn and shoot someone just because they are following me, just as Martin should not have turned and hit Zimmerman.

t3bledsoe
14291
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t3bledsoe 07/22/13 - 01:08 pm
1
1
HA @ 1:55

"Tim....not going to answer the question as to why you think the jury wasn't fair?"

First, calm down and read your e-mail. It might give you a laugh or something to temporaryly ( spelling ) get your mind off of this !

Second, this is a debate, NOT AN ARMED DUAL !! How many debates can you hold at the same time ??

Third, I believe very strongly the same as what I believe others are saying, that in the absence of any African-American jurors, the probability of A FAIR trial was suspect !!

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 01:10 pm
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1
HA

You don't know who started the fight.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:14 pm
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0
All of the available evidence
Unpublished

You don't know who started the fight either, but all of the available evidence show that Martin started the fight. And in the lack of that evidence, the defendant has reasonable doubt because the burden of proof lies on the prosecution.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:12 pm
2
0
"Third, I believe very
Unpublished

"Third, I believe very strongly the same as what I believe others are saying, that in the absence of any African-American jurors, the probability of A FAIR trial was suspect !!"

I'm very sorry to hear about your racist bias.

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 01:17 pm
2
0
"If people have a right to

"If people have a right to follow you and it's not breaking the law, why would the police even respond?"

So you don't think people have a right to follow you? Is this really a question? You can punch anyone you THINK is following you? See we keep bouncing around there are no facts to say Z was guilty. It is the duty of the prosecution to prove the crime. The evidence and jury said Zimmerman is not guilty.

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 01:18 pm
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1
Not true, HA

Other than the liar, GZ's testimony, what evidence is there that Martin started the fight?

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 01:18 pm
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0
I thought they were taking up

I thought they were taking up for some of the jurors up the thread?

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 01:20 pm
2
0
About who started the

About who started the fight..Heh...going back to that just shows you can't prove Zimmerman started the fight. By the way, even the prosecution gave up on THAT idea.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:20 pm
2
0
Fair enough.....but like I
Unpublished

Fair enough.....but like I said, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. There is no evidence to refute his side of the story, and eye witnesses corroborate.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 07/22/13 - 01:21 pm
1
0
Martin's phone texts messages
Unpublished

Martin's phone texts messages show a pattern of violent behavior. You seem to hold Zimmerman responsible for actions not related to the case, maybe you can admit this in as well.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/disorder-judge-recesses-zimmerman-trial-excludes...

Riverman1
93644
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Riverman1 07/22/13 - 01:24 pm
1
0
Since you are calling Z a

Since you are calling Z a liar, I'm curious how we should describe M from his past activities? From HA's link above: "A forensic expert discovered more than 600 items on Trayvon’s cell phone, including texts and photos between Trayvon and other people with specific references to criminal activity — particularly fighting, drugs, and firearms."

mrenee2003
2946
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mrenee2003 07/22/13 - 01:24 pm
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1
Riverman

According to the law, you only have to THINK your life is in danger, not that it really is. That's why the jury had to provide the verdict that they did. The prosecution could not prove without a reasonable doubt that GZ did not perceive his life was in danger. No one here seems to think it was OK for TM to believe his life was in danger despite what his GF said. The only part people seemed to find credible was that she said he said Cracker. Other than that, she's not credible. Cherry picking is the term, I believe.

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