Gays deserve marriage right

  • Follow Letters

Cal Thomas’s recent column describing his opposition to gay marriage reiterated some familiar arguments.

First, allowing gay citizens to marry would force the law to recognize other kinds of marriage, like polygamy, marriage between siblings, etc. Second, gay marriage is wrong because the Bible condemns homosexuality as immoral. The first argument cannot justify continued discrimination against homosexual couples. The latter is a personal matter to which people are entitled, but has no place in a government meant to serve all people.

Marriage is a civil right that most Americans can enjoy. To deny this to couples because of sexual orientation, it must be shown that there is a demonstrable harm to society in failing to do so. No research shows that children raised in gay households suffer harm from it. What matters is that a child has loving, supportive parents, regardless of sexuality.

The rest is a matter of how consenting adults choose to live their lives.

What opponents of marriage equality must answer is the question of discrimination. Not allowing homosexual couples the same rights as heterosexual couples is discrimination based on sexual orientation. Why shouldn’t a gay person be covered under his/her partner’s insurance? Or allowed to visit them in the hospital? Or accept legal custody over their children? These are the questions that opponents of gay marriage must answer.

Refusing to grant gay relationships the same rights as heterosexuals under the law is indefensible. Gay people want to have the right to devote their lives to one another with the same level of commitment as anyone else, and to have the state recognize that devotion. Prejudice is no excuse.

Daniel Barden

Martinez

Comments (99) Add comment
ADVISORY: Users are solely responsible for opinions they post here and for following agreed-upon rules of civility. Posts and comments do not reflect the views of this site. Posts and comments are automatically checked for inappropriate language, but readers might find some comments offensive or inaccurate. If you believe a comment violates our rules, click the "Flag as offensive" link below the comment.
InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 02:18 pm
5
4
Mainline Protestantism tried

Mainline Protestantism tried early on, but without success, to deal with the slavery issue. In 1784, the Methodists voted to expel members who bought and sold slaves but they decided to give slaveholders a year to free their slaves on penalty of expulsion.

Virginia Baptists denounced slavery in 1789. Kentucky's Elkhorn Baptist Association tried to draft a resolution against slavery in 1791 but it proved a hot potato and the association dropped it.

Presbyterian synods in New York and Philadelphia as early as 1787 called for members to gradually end slavery. By 1792, the Presbyterian General Assembly voiced concern over the institution and most Presbyterians agreed slavery should end. At the same time, Presbyterians felt gradual emancipation would work best. By 1815, Presbyterians declared the buying and selling of slaves "inconsistent with the Gospel." In 1818, George Bourne, a fiery anti-slavery preacher, insisted on slavery's cessation.

Religious support for abolition came from perfectionist churches. Abolitionists were not "liberals" such as the Unitarians, Transcendentalists, and so on. Most Abolitionists belonged to strong Methodist and Baptist churches.

So GAD, tell us again how Christians wanted slavery. Tell us some more of your negative lies. I do believe you do not have all your facts together. It would appear that there were some people (Christian and non-Christian) who approve and there were some people (Christian and non-Christian) that disapproved.

GiantsAllDay
9279
Points
GiantsAllDay 03/17/13 - 02:27 pm
2
6
The Xians in the sourh sure

The Xians in the sourh sure did support slavery and the inferiority of blacks. They must of based that on something. Why did the baptists apologize when there was nothing to apologize for?

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 02:28 pm
4
6
Myfather15

Definition of natural: existing in or formed by nature:
a natural bridge.
While homosexuality may not be common, it is most certainly natural. Nice try!

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 02:40 pm
6
3
@karradur

Actually, I've had this conversation with quite a few people I know who are homosexual. In my line of work, I get to meet thousands of people and have some good conversations. Some have said they KNOW they were born that way and YES, others have said they choose to be this way. Over the years I've known several deputies who were gay, several EMT's, Dispatchers, Nurses, ect. Because these are the people and professions we (deputies) deal with on a regular basis and I'm friends with many of them. Quite a few that have been gay.

I know several homosexuals that are Conservatives, who themselves are offended at the activism on the left. Pushing their agenda upon the people. A very good paramedic friend of mine said he understands his decision isn't popular, but he justs wants to be left alone to be happy. This same guy used to mess with me all the time; putting his hand down the front my uniform shirt and saying how good it felt. I was NEVER offended by him; because I knew he was just playing and he IS a good guy. Every call I went on where he was the responding paramedic, I could count on him seeking me out and grabbing me somewhere; but it was innocent fun.

So YES, I do have friends who are gay. I DO NOT hate ANYONE as some other despicable commentor on here would insinuate. But no, I wouldn't stand up for my gay friends to get married, over the standards and morales of this Country.

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 02:44 pm
3
5
@myfather15

Have you ever tried to force yourself to be attracted to people of the same sex?

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 02:43 pm
4
2
Dawgfan62

and since science has NOT been able to prove gay people are born this way; how exactly do you prove its natural? Are we to take your word for it?

And in the aspect of RELATIONSHIPS, a male and female naturally procreate, helping to replenish the earth, which is the natural order; otherwise a species would be extinct. A gay couple CAN NOT naturally procreate; so in the aspect of relationships, you would still say they are natural?

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 02:45 pm
2
4
@myfather15

And here I thought I would have a lazy Sunday afternoon.

You're a law enforcement officer, right?

Would you say that you have a good sense of when someone is lying to you?

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 02:52 pm
3
2
@karrador

Most times yes, but there are some really good liars out there, lol.

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 02:53 pm
4
3
@myfather15

How many of the people that told you "I was born this way" would you say were lying to you?

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 02:55 pm
2
5
Myfather15

So being able to procreate makes a person "natural"? I guess infertile heterosexual couples also are unnatural based on this definition.

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 02:59 pm
5
0
Hahaha.

Who the heck "thumbs-down'd" my question about truth-telling?

He's a law enforcement officer and he sounds like he has been one for quite some time. You don't stay employed (or alive) long in that line of work if you're an idiot.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 03:04 pm
4
4
karradur, I'm not myfather 15

karradur, I'm not myfather 15 but I would say all of them. Here is my thoughts on it. If God created all of us, and since God does not approve of sexual sin and immorality, then it is my belief that God does not create homosexuals. I believe that each child born is a creation of God. He doesn't make junk and He would not create something containing sin. I also believe that there are cultures, situations in life, and events that may alter the natural order of a child's thought process to the point that they find themselves attracted to the same gender, allowing them to believe they have been this way from birth. I don't deny that there are those who have attractions to a person of their same gender, even love them, but spiritually it is not right and since my life is based on what is right in the eyes of God, my belief will follow those guidelines. Your's may not.

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 03:12 pm
2
4
@InChristLove

What I'm interpreting here is that you don't believe in the existence of naturally occurring homosexuality because it would contradict the infallibility of the Bible.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 03:19 pm
4
4
Well karradur, since I

Well karradur, since I believe the Bible to be accurate and true, without error then I guess you could say that I do not believe in homosexuality from birth. Interpret however you wish.

karradur
2848
Points
karradur 03/17/13 - 03:21 pm
3
4
@InChristLove

What were Jesus's last words on the cross?

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 03:28 pm
4
4
Inchristlove

I am sure that all homosexuals weren't created that way and choose to be hated, discriminated against, ridiculed and mistreated by people just because of what they "choose"! In the name of religion, more people have died and more wars have been waged. The Jesus I worship says to love thy neighbor and that this is the greatest commandment However, Christians these days continue to
choose hate over love.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 03:28 pm
4
3
Don't you know karradur?

Don't you know karradur? What does His last words have to do with this discussion unless you are in some subtle way saying this discussion is finish.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 03:43 pm
4
3
Dawgfan62, does the Jesus you

Dawgfan62, does the Jesus you worship also overlook sin? I notice you didn't say the Jesus I serve because then that would require you to obey no matter if we agree or not with His guidelines.

Correction, love they neighbor is not the greatest commandment. So many are fooled into thinking it is. Review scripture again.

Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

It says the greatest commandment is Love the Lord your God (fully and completely) and the second greatest is Love they neighbor as thyself. What better way to love thy neighbor than you warn him/her of sinful behavior that will keep them from having a close personal relationship with Christ. What better way to love thy neighbor than to lead them closer to the cross than to lead them further away by approving of their sinful behavior.

Habakkuk 1:13 says "Your eyes are too pure to look on evil; you cannot tolerate wrongdoing. Why then do you tolerate the treacherous? Why are you silent while the wicked swallow up those more righteous than themselves?"

We can love our neighbor without approving of their sinful behavior. Love does not mean approval.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 03:53 pm
5
4
Dawgfan stated "I am sure

Dawgfan stated "I am sure that all homosexuals weren't created that way and choose to be hated, discriminated against, ridiculed and mistreated by people just because of what they "choose"! "

There are hundreds of individuals who receive multiple piercings to the point of looking like a pin cushion. There are hundreds who have multiple tattoos, some that cover a majority of the body. There are people who dye their hair all manner of colors and wear clothing that most of us consider outlandish. Most times these people are hated, discriminated against, ridiculed and mistreated by people just because of what they "choose, I do not see homosexual behavior any different. We humans are a faulty creature and the things we should do, we do not do, and the things we don't want to do, we do.

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 03:57 pm
4
2
@karradur

When I'm interviewing suspects or witnesses; I watch their eyes and movements and mannerism very closely. I'm even watch their throat to see if I can see their heart beat increasing.

But when I'm talking to friends, I'm not interviewing them like I do at a crime scene; so I don't watch that closely. I would hope I wouldn't have to treat my friends like suspects. I just listen to what they say, always realizing ANYONE can be lying to you.

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 03:59 pm
3
4
Christslove

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40

It clearly states that the second is like it.

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 04:07 pm
2
4
Christslove. 353 post

That is the most ridiculous line of
reasoning that I have ever heard to support discrimination.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 04:10 pm
4
3
Dawg you can think it

Dawg you can think it ridiculous all you like. From God's own words "This is the first and greatest commandment." He didn't say there are two greatest commandments, He said this is the first and greatest. The second is like unto it, meaning it is important, it is great, but it is not first and it is not the greatest.

How you can come to any other conclusion IS ridiculous.

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 04:18 pm
2
3
@Dawgfan62

I agree with your 4:07pm comment. Because you haven't given a single rational argument for gay marriage. Basically, the only argument you've came up with is, they should be allowed because they want too, and we are all a bunch of hate filled bigots. Hhhhmmm, that doesn't sound like rational logic. There are HUNDREDS of things people WANT to do, which are illegal. At least it isn't illegal to be homosexual, which I absolutely DO NOT think it should ever be illegal. That is interfereing with individuals FREE WILL, which is NOT God's way. He wants people to make FREE WILLED decisions.

InChristLove
22452
Points
InChristLove 03/17/13 - 04:21 pm
3
3
Well, never said I was

Well, never said I was perfect Dawg and I'm sure my attitude is not pleasing to the Savior. It's just hard sometimes dealing with people who may be educated but don't display common sense. Guess I'll have to speak with Him about my attitude. College education doesn't give you love and tolerance but it you wish to think so, so be it. Love comes from Christ and there is a huge difference in tolerance and approval where sin is concerned. I'm tolerant of divorce but don't approve. I'm tolerant of drunks but don't approve. I'm tolerant of a lot of things but that doesn't mean I have to like the behavior or approve of it.

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 04:25 pm
3
2
@Dawgfan

Wow, I'm impressed; you're a college graduate. Yet, you can't tell the difference in percepton and reality. Your perception is that we are haters, bigots and discriminate against people; but the reality is we are and do none of those. Your perception doesn't mean it's FACT.

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 04:30 pm
3
2
@ICL

You're exactly right. We are VERY tolerant of many behaviors. I don't try to put myself in other peoples lives daily. As a matter of fact, I make it a point to stay out of other people business. It's only when it's thrown in my face that I stand up against it. When they are shoving an immoral act down our throats, trying to say it's "normal" and "natural" when nature itself, declares it to be unnatural. They can't make a strong argument against that point; they can only throw rhetoric, push emotions and call names. Nature has spoken, and made a very clear statement.

Dawgfan62
167
Points
Dawgfan62 03/17/13 - 04:40 pm
2
2
rs/myfather15

If being against discrimination for a natural occurrence is not a logical argument
then guilty as charged.

Little Lamb
44807
Points
Little Lamb 03/17/13 - 04:46 pm
4
1
New Name

Society has named marriage to be a civil union between two persons of opposite-sexual orientation. Hence, we need a new name for civil unions between two persons of same-sexual orientation. How about garriage?

I'm glad I could be of help in this debate.

myfather15
52613
Points
myfather15 03/17/13 - 04:51 pm
3
3
First of all; being against

First of all; being against gay marriage is NOT discrimination. Thats only your opinion, but thanks for giving us your college educated opinion, since that means its sooooo much more important than ours.

Second, it's NOT a logical argument because you can't provide PROOF that it is natural, only your personal opinion. I believe I've provided proof, in the FACT that a perfectly healthy man and woman, natually procreate. A perfectly healthy gay couple can NOT. But I see you choose to ignore this aspect, after spewing a comment about infertility (health issue).

Are we supposed to just take your word for it? I honestly believe this is what people who support it, expect us to do. Oh, are we supposed to take the word of a group of people who choose to commit and immoral, unnatural act; when they say they are born that way? So I guess I should take the word of pedophiles and polygamists as well. They also claim to have been born that way. There are actually entire cultures in America who believe it's perfectly acceptable to have sexual intercourse with a 10 or 11 year old. Ever heard of NAMBLA? Should we just believe them as well?

No, I'm not comparing homosexuality to these acts. I undertand one has a victim and one is consenting adults. Thats why one is and should be illegal and the other (homosexuality) should not be illegal. The ONLY reason I used this comparison is to place emphasis that we don't simply believe anything a group of people tell us.

Back to Top

Search Augusta jobs