Why oppose gay marriage?

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This is in response to several articles I’ve read lately on the issue of homosexuality and gay marriage.

OK, I get that there is a general consensus on the fact that homosexuality is against the ideals set forth by God and nature and all that jazz. What I don’t understand is how letting gay people get married has any negative effect on me, or anyone else for that matter.

I don’t understand why I need to make it my business, socially speaking, to oppose it. I understand opposing it morally, but I’m also morally opposed to polygamy. However, I personally don’t make it my business to be concerned with the state of other people’s relationships in general.

If I had it my way, the government wouldn’t recognize marriage at all. Marriage is about a personal commitment between two people. Why the government needs to get involved in that in any way, shape or form, I’m not sure. That being said, if a gay person gets married, it doesn’t harm anybody, so I can’t find any reason to put forth energy in stopping them (legally speaking). I simply say live and let live.

No one can take away your right to your moral opinion, and if you personally believe gay marriage is wrong, then don’t marry someone of the same sex! The rest doesn’t affect you, and God will be the source of any further moral judgement.

This seems pretty sensible to me, and I just don’t get why a lot of people don’t see this perspective.

Dallas Duff

Evans

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InChristLove
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InChristLove 03/09/13 - 10:56 am
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Willow, I totally agree with

Willow, I totally agree with your 9:38am comment.

nocnoc
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nocnoc 03/09/13 - 10:56 am
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Why oppose gay marriage?

Food For Thought
Based on 1990's Liberal produced medical research reports at the height of the AIDS epidemic. Homosexuality, we were told, is genetic, and is so for about 3% to 4% of the general population.

The liberalization of Homosexuality promoted a Sexual Promiscuous life style in the 1980's and 1990's quickly leading to the spread of AIDS. But having dedicated 1 partner, saved a lot of Homosexuals from contracting AIDS.

So I'll toss this out there.
Legally binding Civil (court house) ceremonies, and not church weddings would seem to be acceptable for several reasons.

But the problem with any church weddings is simple.
Chapters 18 and 20 of Leviticus, which form part of the Holiness code.
(Leviticus 18:22 NIV & Leviticus 20:13 NIV)[3]

To ask or DEMAND a church to perform Homosexual weddings violates their church doctrine and beliefs, plus is a clear indication the Government is stepping on the US Constitution.

However, even now some "UNITED (Whatever) Churches" are accepting some openly homosexual priests and priestesses.

So this boils down to the age old problem of being fair with out making a toe hold to open the flood gates later down the road.

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 03/09/13 - 10:56 am
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Arguments

WalterBradfordCannon posted:

. . . people made the same arguments, in prior ages . . .

That does not address my argument about your meaningless circular clause about "knowledgeable knowledge."

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 12:10 pm
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We now have gays in the

We now have gays in the military receiving preferential benefits over heterosexuals. If you are in a committed heterosexuals relationship but not married no benefits! If you are homosexual just sign paper work that you are committed and bingo, you get benefits with out the baggage and responsibility marriage (such as divorce proceeding to desolve the relationship) .

WalterBradfordCannon
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WalterBradfordCannon 03/09/13 - 10:57 am
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@InChristLove, in pedophilia,

@InChristLove, in pedophilia, there is a victim. Why can't you just accept this point? Gay couples love each other equally. Not the same. It may be sexual depravity for YOU to engage in same-sex love, but it is not the case when couples love each other and devote each other's lives to God, and to each other, as married couples do.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 03/09/13 - 11:05 am
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Same old, tired

Same old, tired comments--both on the pro and con. "I'll pray for you" is Christian speak for "screw off".

InChristLove
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InChristLove 03/09/13 - 11:07 am
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WBC, did you not even give me

WBC, did you not even give me enough respect to read my comment? I have yours. I stated the 20 year old and the 12 year old are both consenting to have a sexual realtionship. There is no victim. You can consider the 12 year old a victim and that this is sexual depravity, but he/she is not a victim because now society views it as being okay. Since we are traveling down this road that as long as their isn't a victim, as long as two people love each other and are committed to each other, it is okay. Society has determined that a 12 year old can decide if they wish to have sexual intercourse with anyone he/she wishes. Why can you not see that? May not happen in the next 5 years but this is what is in store because of your way of thinking.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 03/09/13 - 11:11 am
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Sorry Giant....when a

Sorry Giant....when a Christian says they will pray for you, it means they will take it before the Heavenly Father and request He handle it. Of course a non-believe would have your way of thinking but sorry, it's flawed.

allhans
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allhans 03/09/13 - 11:18 am
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Why oppose it? Why

Why oppose it? Why not?.

Take a stand for what you believe in..that goes both ways.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 03/09/13 - 11:21 am
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We fall further and further

We fall further and further into depravity when God is not our Standard Bearer. And to those who fall into this pit, God will leave them there...right there, unable to climb out on their own.

Dixieman
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Dixieman 03/09/13 - 11:27 am
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Can I have your points?

Having read all opposing points of view here, I have come up with the Dixieman Moderate Position Plan on gay marriage. This plan should alienate and honk off both sides, which is my objective. Under the Dixieman Moderate Position Plan, gay couples can not yet get married, but they are allowed to get engaged. That way they can have engagement parties and their families can have bragging rights.
What are these point things, anyway? They just suddenly appeared one day and the AC never explained them. Can I cash them in and buy a ticket on Delta? Can you trade them in for merchandise like the old Green Stamps? If you get enough points, do you get a medal you can wear? Just wondering...

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 11:32 am
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WalterBradfordCannon....you

WalterBradfordCannon....you stated "Pedophilia may or may not be a natural tendency in some people, but it is not reciprocated, and there is a clear violation of inherent trust, and a clear victim" ! Does the "victim of pedophilia always view himself as a victim? I think not and you will be facing this as our moral values continue to crumble. Here is a study from the Netherlands that supports the view that children involved in pedophilic relationships do not always view themselves as victims! Alternative Lifestyles
Spring 1983, Volume 5, Issue 3, pp 164-183
Pedophile relationships in the Netherlands: Alternative lifestyle for children?
• Theo Sandfort
Look Inside Get Access
Abstract
The experiences and perceptions of 25 boys in on-going relationships with pedophiles in the Netherlands were studied using a semi-structured interview technique. Areas of personal significance or value to the boys, including the pedophile relationship, the pedophile himself, and the sexual contact, were investigated for their emotional meaning and salience. The older partner and pedophile relationship were found to be significant but not overly important aspects of the boys' experiences. The partner and relationship, including sexual aspects, were experienced in predominately positive terms; evidence of exploitation or misuse was absent. Implications of findings from this convenience sample are discussed in terms of research and social policy.
This research was carried out in the Department of Sociology of Primary Groups and Socialization Processes (No. 716501;arb vo 7272) with a supplementary grant from the Netherlands Association for Sexual Reform (NVSH). The author may be reached at:Rijksuniversiteit Utrecht, Instituut voor psychologie en persoonlijkheidsleer, 3512 JK Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Now if you look for legalization of pedophilia in Europe it is roaring along great guns. I AM NOT an advocate, just saying we are about 10 to 20 year behind Europe! No body has bit on the legal problems gay marriage will produce yet huh. Oh well facts and reality are not liberal strong points!

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 03/09/13 - 11:33 am
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All sins are built around

All sins are built around self centeredness. You can give a sinner everything they want and they will still not BE HAPPY.

You can't make a sinner happy.

myfather15
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myfather15 03/09/13 - 01:06 pm
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@Mr. Cannon

You stated "InChristLove, in pedophilia, there is a victim. Why can't you just accept this point?"

Ok, why is there a victim in pedophilia? Because MEN (meaning mankind, no gender intended), in the United States of America, decided we need to protect our children. MEN decided an AGE in which THEY would consider a sexual act, child molestation. So, when MEN evolve to the point of thinking a 12 year old, is old enough to not warrant protection anymore, is that ok with you? Because THEN, legally, there would be no VICTIM as you put it, when a 12 year old is involved in the act. So, do we need to set a standard and STICK TO IT, or do we need to keep reducing our morales?

Again, my question is; WHY is there a victim in the case scenario you gave? Because WE THE PEOPLE decided the ages of children we want to protect. It's about the MORALES of this Country and which MORALES we want to follow and institute, to make laws. We MUST stand for something, or this Country will FALL for anything. It's NOT about MY personal beliefs, but the Countries MORALES and which morales WE THE PEOPLE want to institute. The Country as a whole, doesn't want to legalize gay marriage but LIBERALS want to shove it down everyone's throat. Liberal's

myfather15
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myfather15 03/09/13 - 01:22 pm
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When those human beings can

When those human beings can join together and make ONE FLESH, I'll stand on the courthouse steps and SCREAM my support for gay marriage. Until then, I'm against it!!

THIS should be the standard for recognizing marriage. This is a beautiful Saturday and I'm not arguing this all day long. I plan to get outside and play with my children. So please, DO NOT hit me with men and women who are sterile or other HEALTH PROBLEMS, which prevent them from having children. Any person with the slightest hint of common sense, knows theres a HUGE difference in someone having health issues, therefore can't procreate; and two humans beings (Gays) in which NATURE prohibits them from procreating, period!! So, don't go there. And please don't use the issue of RACE in comparison to homosexuality, when one is obviously proven and the other.....not so much!! Comparing the treatment of a slaves, to the way homosexuals are treated today, is a disgrace and you should be ashamed to even THINK of going there.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Mark-10-8/

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Genesis&chapter=2&vers...

WalterBradfordCannon
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WalterBradfordCannon 03/09/13 - 01:34 pm
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@carcraft, in the military,

@carcraft, in the military, you can be domestic partners with another person of either sex. Try it - they cannot stop it. You can get benefits for your girlfriend or boyfriend irrespective of sexual orientation.

@InChristLove, in pedophilia, there is a significant assymmetry of influence and power, and the subject is a minor and not legally competent to make all of their own decisions about sexual matters. That makes an ENORMOUS difference. Gay relationships have a symmetry of power, and occur between two adults. Why you seem to think this is the "same thing" as being homosexual, or is even remotely analogous, is monstrous.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 03/09/13 - 02:05 pm
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It is the teachings of Satan

It is the teachings of Satan, to question it, doubt it, mix a little truth with a lie, re explain it, rationalize it, compare it, justify it and call it by another name.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 03/09/13 - 02:04 pm
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Add one more tool of Satan.

Add one more tool of Satan. Distraction.

This is not about making one sin greater than another. It's about telling the truth. Calling whatever it is by name.

To love is to tell the truth. What this letter writer gives is a lie and a lie is never love.

Christ is the father of truth.
Satan is the father of lies.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 03/09/13 - 03:05 pm
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"and not legally competent to

"and not legally competent to make all of their own decisions about sexual matters. "

For a time Walter, but that could change in the future. Our children are more versed in the sexual matters than I ever dreamed possible. This too will soon become acceptable just as acceptance of homosexual behavior is becoming the norm. Assymmetry of influence and power could very easily become symmetry of power. I am not comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, but what I am comparing is societies acceptance of it. You consider it monstrous to compare the two but I'm saying is society has accepted homosexual behavior as the norm where once is was thought monstrous. Soon pedophilia could be found acceptable by society and no longer considered monstrous. We've lowered our moral standard on homosexual sinfulness, we can always lower it a little more to pedophilia. Just change the standards.

allhans
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allhans 03/09/13 - 03:21 pm
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People look for love in "all

People look for love in "all the wrong places".
They seem to think if they can just do every thing they want, then they will be blissfully happy. It won't happen.
Willow and ICL tells the truth...Listen!!

harley_52
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harley_52 03/09/13 - 04:13 pm
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Homosexuality is Abnormal Behavior....

It is also antisocial behavior. The traditional family (man, woman, children) is the center of our society and has been such for thousands of years. Many societies have come and gone, but the institution of marriage has survived. What is it, exactly, that makes us believe we know better than the centuries of learning and social behavior have sanctified?

Homosexuality is abnormal. It is antisocial. My biggest problem with modern attitudes toward it, and particularly efforts to normalize it , is that it is bad for society. It is a dagger in the heart of the family and, therefore, society as we have known it and as it has evolved. I DO NOT want my grandchildren taught (either by example, or by education) that it is normal and okay. It isn't.

I couldn't possibly care less what two consenting adults do behind closed doors. That's where homosexuality should stay.

harley_52
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harley_52 03/09/13 - 04:29 pm
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We Hear Often...

....that the "younger generation" doesn't have the same objections to homosexuality as the "older generation." I once had another poster in here wish that I would hurry up and die because my death would make one less "homophobe" to deal with.

Why is it that the "younger generation" is more open to homosexuality in general and homosexual marriage in particular? Think about it.

I maintain it's because that's what they're teaching in schools these days and have been moving more and more toward the normalization of homosexuality as the left-wing influence has corrupted the minds of the last couple of generations. Reading, writing, and arithmetic have gone the way of the saber toothed tiger as homosexuality and free sex have become institutionalized in our schools. So has American history. So have civics, geography, and English composition.

Plato said that the two most important questions for any society are "who will teach our children," and "what will they teach them?"

We've left the fox in the hen house way too long already.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 03/09/13 - 04:48 pm
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harley, you are a wise man.

harley, you are a wise man. When we send our children to Babylonia to be educated/indoctrinated; do not be surprised when they return as Babylonians.

It is not enough though to tell them the Babylonians are wrong; we must instruct them in what is right, why it's right and WHO is the CORNERSTONE of RIGHT.

As good as we try to be, on our own, there is no power in our good. The power comes from the right foundation; anything else is sinking sand.

If we uphold a sin not to BE A SIN, (if we condone it, support it, speak favorably of it) we may just as well commit the sin ourselves as we will be held responsible for every utterance from our lips.

There isn't one posting here who can avoid the judgment that awaits; no, not one.

harley_52
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harley_52 03/09/13 - 04:52 pm
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Willow....

Not really....but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Thanks...

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 05:41 pm
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Walterbradfordcanon, Having

Walterbradfordcanon, Having spent ten years active duty and 15 years reserves I will simply inform you that heterosexuals domestic partners CAN NOT GET DEPENDANT ID CARDS AND ARE NOT ELGIBLE FOR MILITARY HEALTH CARE ETC. The DOD is working on allowing homosexual domestic partners to get those benefits with outbeing married. As an active duty military person you can name who ever you want to receive your life insurance benefits and thrift savings plan that is it!

duffstuff
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duffstuff 03/09/13 - 05:14 pm
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live and let live

Here's the logic in which I don't understand....

"I believe gay marriage is immoral, therefore I need to make sure gay people don't get married because I personally believe it's immoral."

If Jack and Bill want to try and get married I don't see why that's any of my business? I don't see why I need to make an effort to stop them?

I can only assume it's because these people believe God will cast some kind of judgment on them as well because they allowed it to happen or something. But then if God is to judge us because we allowed immoral things to be legal then we would have been damned a long time ago because we've allowed all kinds of immoralities to be legal. I personally believe laws are irrelevant to morality because I believe we are judged as individuals based upon our own behaviors. I dont believe we are judged based upon what is legal or what isn't. Obviously we need to maintain a civil society, but I can't see how gay marriage would disrupt civility, therefore I put forth no energy to oppose it.

Scenario: A gay couple wants to get married down the block... My response: "whatever, it doesn't hurt anyone else so it's really none of my business what they're allowed to do."

This is called "live and let live" why is that such a problem?

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 05:27 pm
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If you are hetero sexual you

If you are hetero sexual you are required to have a valid marriage license to receive and ID card and other benefits. http://www.military.com/spouse/military-life/military-resources/military... The military has gone as far a DOMA will allow to give benefits to same sex couples with out being married . Now note that all a gay couple has to do to receive the maximum benefits under law is sign a form that they are committed to each other. What is required to end the relationship? Will it certainly isn’t a divorce proceedings!

WalterBradfordCannon
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WalterBradfordCannon 03/09/13 - 05:29 pm
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@carcraft, it is against

@carcraft, it is against clearly and trivially against federal law to allow domestic partner benefits for same-sex partners but not for opposite sex partners. It will be demonstrated the first time it is challenged. It is a no-brainer.

@InChristLove, you cannot argue that allowing gay marriage is moral decay because it is against the church. The church has previously argued strenuously for slavery based on scripture, for denying women the vote based on scripture, and for allowing Jim Crow laws based on scripture. Those are all widely and easily accepted as failures of the church today. In each case, new knowledge occurred that caused changes in morality. In the case of slavery, the first generation Africans born in the USA were a LOT more like the slave owners' children than they were like their parents, and it was instantly clear to everyone how wrong it was (those to whom it was not already obvious). Nonetheless, the church still argued for it based on scripture. In the case of women voting, the USA went through industrialization, and the economic value of a working woman in an industrialized society, in terms of productivity, was equal to that of men, and men agreed that women were their equals in terms of voting in a democracy. Nonetheless, the church still argued against it based on scripture. Society changes, and new norms are accepted for morality - BECAUSE IT BECOMES OBVIOUS THEY ARE RIGHT. I've known and socialized with far more gay people than most on this forum, obviously, because it is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to me how right gay marriage is, and how illogical and bigoted the opposition is. It is similarly clear to me that as time goes on, more and more people simply gain the knowledge that I already have, and their minds change, too.

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 05:42 pm
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dustuff. I have already

dustuff. I have already pointed out that legal issues reguarding children are unsettled and gay "marriage" will require rethinking child support and cutody issues. We alread have one case where a sperm donor is responsible for child support because a debeat lesbian refused to take resposiblity for the child of her partner. The STATE that is providing child support went after the biological father BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT CASE LAW DEMANDS. So we are going to have to undo 200 years of established child support law? Will this effect you? I don't know but you get to pay for a lot of legeslative and legal work to sort this out.

carcraft
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carcraft 03/09/13 - 05:33 pm
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Walterbradforcannon, it may

Walterbradforcannon, it may be clearly against the law in your universe but it certainly isn't in the militaries. It is very clear you have never served and never had to get an ID card for a dependant.

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