Pro-gay letter fell flat

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The letter “Gays merely want rights” by John Cashin (Feb. 22) was the lamest attempt to be cool and progressive that I have ever seen.

When did unnatural sex become a civil right? Funk & Wagnalls defines unnatural as “contrary to the laws of nature.” Homosexuality rarely occurs in the natural world because snakes know better, monkeys know better, and birds, fish, lizards and even insects know better.

Mr. Cashin states that gays have no agenda. That is the second-most preposterous statement in his letter. His most ridiculous statement is that no laws have been broken. A Georgia law criminalizes sodomy. Sheriffs’ deputies have a legal obligation to arrest any person they witness engaged in any act of sodomy.

He asks why we don’t write letters protesting rape, murder or incest. The answer? We don’t have to. Society has the good sense to arrest and jail those people.

He says “They just want their rights.” I guess he means civil rights, which are described by Funk & Wagnalls as private and nonpolitical. Do us all a favor and keep your sexual preferences private and nonpolitical.

By one reliable estimate, more than 97 percent of U.S. citizens are heterosexual. Why do we have to cater to the 3 percent? After years of research and billions of dollars spent, geneticists are unable to find a gene that causes people to be homosexual. Until we know that a person can be genetically predisposed to be homosexual, it remains a matter of choice.

Today’s gay rights movement may be the first time in history that such a small group of people have been so vocal, so adamant and so public to promote a sexual activity. The 97 percent have much more important things to attend to, such as God, family, jobs, food, clothes and shelter.

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dahreese
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dahreese 02/26/13 - 10:08 pm
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Those of you who still cling
Unpublished

Those of you who still cling to the theory that homosexuality is a choice and not a natural thing with homosexuals and bi-sexuals aren't going to change your minds.

As to the studies of H E Whitehead, his claim that the DSM was changed by counselors to accept homosexuality as natual to the homosexual because of public pressure is erroneous.

He is willing to cite his sources to 'prove' 'his' position that homosexuality is a choice, but careful examination of his writings show he does so to the extent of admitting contrary viewpoints.
---------------------------------------------------------
I noted above two thumbs down to my post above.

So, I'll address this to the two of you; I'd be willing to read on here your account of your making a 'where', 'when' and 'how' conscious decision to "decide" whether you 'wanted' to be homosexual or 'straight.'

As we are all annonymous on here, let's have 'your' story and let's have it 'straight', no pun intended.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/26/13 - 10:12 pm
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@Palmetto

REAL Christians DO NOT twist the scripture, false prophets, pastors, preachers, etc; DO. Also, people who despise the very existence of God, LOVE to twist scripture to denounce or make God seem ridiculous.

REAL Christians, teach the word of God, Chapter by Chapter, verse by verse and let the chips fall where they lay. If people don't accept it, oh well; you just move on. BUT, to many pastors are worried about THEIR congregation, which isn't THEIRS to begin with. I watch words VERY closely; If I hear a "teacher" of God's word say "My congregation" or "My Church" I'm very skeptical automatically and so should everyone else be. MEN WILL DECEIVE YOU!!! But that deception is only going to last a short time longer. Then we will have a true Teacher, here on earth; teaching us the TRUE path. Notice, I did say HERE ON EARTH, that wasn't a mistake; we aren't going anywhere.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/26/13 - 10:23 pm
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Whether a person be born a

Whether a person be born a certain way, or it be by choice; it's still an unnatural act. One that a person should be FREE TO CHOOSE to participate in, ALL THEY WANT. BUT should NOT be legalized by a civilized society. If we allow THIS, what is next? Do we allow ANYTHING that anyone wants to do, in which they say they were "Born this way"?

There is not greater purpose of homosexuality, than emotions and personal pleasure, thats factual. But there certainly is for a man and women relationship. From one man and one woman, comes the miracle of life, they come together and form a human being possessing BOTH their DNA's, thereby creating LIFE. A neccessary component for the existence of mankind. Now what, in addition to emotions, does a gay couple create? I didn't think so, and with that I say goodnight.

dahreese
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dahreese 02/26/13 - 11:15 pm
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"Now what, in addition to
Unpublished

"Now what, in addition to emotions, does a gay couple create? I didn't think so, and with that I say goodnight."

Rather smug and closed minded sentence. And disrespect to anyone who does not agree with you.

Gay couples create loving and committed relationships to one another.

They are loving to 'straight' relationships.

The serve in Christian churches. Some are even Christian ministers.

Some raise 'straight' children, just as some 'straight' parents raise 'homosexual' children.

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 02/27/13 - 01:55 am
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"If anybody is under the

"If anybody is under the misconception that the brilliance of their arguments is going to change anybody's mind they are sorely mistaken."

But it is hoped that pure, unvarnished logic; unbiased by religious dogma, will turn on a light occasionally.

Young Fred
15724
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Young Fred 02/27/13 - 02:55 am
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Dogma is dogma. You can put

Dogma is dogma. You can put whatever qualifier in front of it you wish. You either can make the argument or not. Certain “dogma's” disqualifies nobody's opinion, one's arguments can do that quite well on it's own.

To automatically dismiss religious dogma in favor of secular dogma is simply replacement. Pretty lame if you ask me. You've done nothing but discredit the one without proving the other.

WalterBradfordCannon
1376
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/27/13 - 06:06 am
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myfather, Christ was also

myfather, Christ was also asked "what is the law?". He responded not with the ten commandments, but with the first commandment and the Golden Rule. He was asked about divorce, but he did not cite Moses as the law - he said what God has joined together let no man put asunder. Christ never made statements about homosexuality, but if he did I have a feeling it would be somewhat similar to his stance on adultery. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I am pretty sure Christ would have taken different stances on the issue of mixing wool and linen in shirts than that in Leviticus, too.

carcraft
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carcraft 02/27/13 - 06:39 am
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WalterBradfordCannon, Why not

WalterBradfordCannon, Why not quot the whole scripture and there is some very logical deductions that can be made from that scripture you quoted from Christ. For this reason a MAN shall leave his father and Women HER mother. Now Jesus didn't say, a man shall leave his father and a man shall leave his mother or Suzy shall leave her family and Jill shall leave her family. Seems clear Jesus considered marriage between a man and a women. The other point is that to be divorced one needs to be Married. So we have Christ own statement that marriage should be between a man and a women. Sin is sin and we do sinners no favors by celebrating their sin!

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 08:03 am
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"You could 'choose' to have a
Unpublished

"You could 'choose' to have a homosexual affair, but that wouldn't 'change' you into a homosexual."

That's like saying you can 'choose' to murder someone, but that doesn't make you a murderer. But then again, the liberals LOVE to redefine everything.

dahreese
4674
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dahreese 02/27/13 - 09:21 am
1
3
"That's like saying you can
Unpublished

"That's like saying you can 'choose' to murder someone, but that doesn't make you a murderer. But then again, the liberals LOVE to redefine everything."

If that comment is supposed to be an intelligent analogy, it falls far short.

Sorta like chosing to be a conservative and dead from the neck up.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 09:31 am
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What's wrong with the
Unpublished

What's wrong with the analogy? "Dead from the neck up" insults don't explain what's wrong with it, but I suppose it's the best you have.

dahreese
4674
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dahreese 02/27/13 - 09:40 am
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"What's wrong with the
Unpublished

"What's wrong with the analogy?"

For an analogy there must be something 'similiar' to compare.

Sex and murder are NOT similiar.

I gotta run. Check in later.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 09:40 am
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homosexual [ˌhəʊməʊˈsɛksjʊəl
Unpublished

homosexual [ˌhəʊməʊˈsɛksjʊəl ˌhɒm-]
n
(Psychology) a person who is sexually attracted to members of the same sex.

Seems to me that you would at least have to be a little "attracted" to a member of the same sex to have sex with them. Looks like the analogy is spot on.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 09:47 am
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Sex and murder do not
Unpublished

Sex and murder do not compare. True...but performing the very defining act of being a homosexual or being a murderer DO compare. Thus the analogy that if you have homosexual sex, you are a homosexual. If you commit murder, you are a murderer. Pretty simple. No one said sex and murder are similar....except for YOU dahreese. That seems to be how you make your argument. You claim people said things that they didn't say, then argue against it.

Fiat_Lux
14845
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Fiat_Lux 02/27/13 - 11:38 am
1
1
Genetics or choice are both irrelevent to the issue

At least for Christians, Jews and Muslims anyway, the question is about having sex outside of marriage, which is forbidden. Even without those religions being considered, extra- and pre-marital sex has been one of THE big, archetypal taboos of pretty much all human society through history and pre-history. Men, especially kings and the wealthy, want to know with certainty that their sons are their own sons.

The problem for the unfortunates who find themselves attracted to the same sex is that the covenant of marriage is not one of their options, even if the legally-defined relational entity such as "domestic partner" is available. (Hopefully enough foresight is exercised to exclude from that legal definition any 1st-2nd or 3rd degree blood relatives and is restricted to actual human beings. My dog, my cat and I have a domestic partnership, so, just saying...)

This is an issue only because people today have largely concluded that we are placed on this earth to please ourselves without regard to any objective design (Design) or purpose/plan/meaning for our lives. All of us make our choices based on our own light (or darkness), irrespective of how exalted or debased our motives and actions are. We do build our destinies by our choices, and those choices are derived from how we think, which derives from how we view who we are and our role in the world, especially as how that relates to other people.

If God is at the center of our world and cosmic view, then the wisdom about mankind and the laws of nature and reason and goodness that has come down to us from the eons will form our choices about what we may do. It is based on what has been seen to conform to natural law (ie, gravity, seek-pleasure/avoid-pain); reason, as it has grown with man's understanding of creation; and goodness, as defined by objective societal and personal outcomes over the ages.

Those with that as their center believe that are rewards and good results in conforming to the "wisdom of the ages", some of it specific to certain religions. Inherent also is the belief that refusing to conform will lead to very bad things, such as poverty, sickness, all sorts of dissolution, misery, broken relationships, violence, war and death. And that cause-effect relationship has been observed for thousands and thousands of years.

Those who have themselves at the center of their lives generally pursue goals to make themselves happy, even if they intelligently have realized that serving others and doing good for others is a sure-fire way to feel good about yourself. However, being at the center makes it hard to deny yourself of something "forbidden" or "disapproved" that doesn't appear to harm anyone else. After all, if I am my own yardstick for what is good and right, ie, I am my own god, then why shouldn't I have what I want if I'm convinced it doesn't hurt anything?

The last 50 or so years have been quite instuctive regarding moral relativism. As we have begun to see with the more primitive and beastly among our contemporaries, defining right and wrong, good and bad, based mainly on our own perspective is fraught with peril--for society at large even without considering what it does to the soul, should one believe such a thing exists.

And that, dear friends and fellow readers, is the crux of the controversy. Some of us have chosen to believe there is an externally imposed set of standards and guidelines/laws perceived and handed down through history, and that they should be observed. Some of us, the post-modern, highly evolved and pregressive, have concluded that that set of handed-down stuff is a load of atavistic hogwash, best quickly discarded as regressive and mean-spirited, and completely useless.

Unfortunately, the same old results still keep happening when the atavistic, archetypal social taboos are flaunted. If only everyone could be "educated" out of the simple-minded belief in a deity to be so evolved, wise and progressive, then all would be well. Heaven would come to earth. Utopia.

Sigh.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 11:53 am
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" If only everyone could be
Unpublished

" If only everyone could be "educated" out of the simple-minded belief in a deity to be so evolved, wise and progressive, then all would be well."

Perhaps everyone could be educated to NOT call those who don't believe as they do as being "simple minded." Wouldn't that be nice? You have to admire the tolerance of the "progressives."

WalterBradfordCannon
1376
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/27/13 - 12:56 pm
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The talk that one must not

The talk that one must not believe in a deity to feel that gays should not be denied the rights of marriage is also contrary to the teachings and ceremonies of the Anglican Church, Episcopalian Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church, Conservative Judaism, Reform Judaism, Wicca, and many other religious organizations (not to mention national and state governments). Let's not forget that the Southern Baptist Convention formed at First Baptist Augusta in 1845 because Baptists otherwise prohibited slave owners from serving in evangelical roles for the church. The SBC did apologize for its long racist and white supremacist history though - in 1995.

http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=899

I predict a similar SBC resolution on gay marriage in another 100 years.

WalterBradfordCannon
1376
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/27/13 - 01:10 pm
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Another handy primer on

Another handy primer on Southern Baptists and civil rights. They defended race-based slavery as being according to the bible prior to the civil war. They similarly defended against civil rights for all races as being against the bible (in the 1960s). They defended against women having the right to vote as being against the bible (in the 1920s). Which of you will make those defenses today?

Today, the Southern Baptist Convention says that gay rights are not civil rights, just as they previously said feminist rights were not civil rights and equal rights for all races were not civil rights. In my opinion, the Southern Baptist Convention doesn't have a whole lot of credibility on the subject of how civil rights relate to the teachings of scripture.

dahreese
4674
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dahreese 02/27/13 - 01:26 pm
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'Sex and murder do not
Unpublished

'Sex and murder do not compare. True...but performing the very defining act of being a homosexual or being a murderer DO compare.'

You can compare them all you want, but willful sex and wilful murder are not analogous.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/27/13 - 01:51 pm
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You may not be able to

You may not be able to compare Willful sex and willful murder but the result from those actions can be compared. Choosing to have homosexual sex and choosing to murder can be compared in regard to the defining result of those actions. It's not the action she's comparing but the results. The act of having homosexual sex resulting in you being a homosexual and the act of committing murder resulting in you being a murderer, the act of stealing makes you a thief, the act of lying makes you a liar.

WalterBradfordCannon
1376
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/27/13 - 02:03 pm
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The act of murder harms

The act of murder harms another living being, as does the act of stealing, as does bearing false witness against your neighbor. Those are the results of those actions. The act of being a homosexual, or of engaging in homosexual behavior, does no person harm.

InChristLove
22420
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InChristLove 02/27/13 - 02:06 pm
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Walter, those religions who

Walter, those religions who stray from the Word of God and what it teaches remind me of

Matthew 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."

2 Peter 2:1-3 "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. "

When religion twist scripture to play towards the worlds sensuality and to be more appealing to the world instead of standing firm of the Word of God, they are nothing but false religions. May sound harsh but God's Word is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and changing it to pacify the world is not Truth.

dahreese
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dahreese 02/27/13 - 02:08 pm
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'The act of having homosexual
Unpublished

'The act of having homosexual sex resulting in you being a homosexual...."

No, it doesn't. Anymore than a homosexual having a 'straight' affair results in their becoming 'straight.'

If that were the case, do you not suppose homosexuals would all have 'straight' affairs and thus keep critics off their backs.

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 02:09 pm
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Please inform us what makes
Unpublished

Please inform us what makes someone homosexual.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/27/13 - 02:14 pm
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Walter, please pay attention.

Walter, please pay attention. I said the defining results. How do we define someone that murders another? Murderer How do we define someone who steals from another? Thief How do we define someone who lies to another? Liar How do we define someone who has sex with a person of the same gender? Homosexual

The defining results, not the results themselves

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 02:11 pm
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"You can compare them all you
Unpublished

"You can compare them all you want, but willful sex and wilful murder are not analogous." Again...no one suggested that they are BUT YOU. Why do you keep insisting that I said something that I didn't, and then arguing against it. Are you having that much trouble arguing against what I actually said?

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 02/27/13 - 02:12 pm
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The act of spelunking makes
Unpublished

The act of spelunking makes you a spelunker!! No one is harmed.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/27/13 - 02:12 pm
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"Anymore than a homosexual

"Anymore than a homosexual having a 'straight' affair results in their becoming 'straight."

No dahreese, you are correct....guess that would make them bisexual, so I guess technically, someone who claims to be straight and has a homosexual affair would also be considered bisexual.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/27/13 - 02:18 pm
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I don't get it?

Ok, I get that there is a general consensus on the fact that homosexuality is against God and nature and all that jazz. What I don't understand is how letting gay people get married has any negative effect on me or anyone else for that matter. I don't understand why I need to make it my business to oppose it, socially speaking? I understand opposing it morally, but I also morally oppose polygamy. I just don't make it my business to be concerned with the state of other people's relationships in general. If a gay person gets married it doesn't harm anybody so I can't find any reason to put forth energy in stopping them (legally speaking). I simply say live and let live. No one can take away your right to your moral opinion, and if you personally believe gay marriage is wrong then don't get gay married. lol
The rest doesn't affect you and God will be the source of any further moral judgement.

This seems pretty sensible to me, and I just don't get why alot of people don't see this perspective???

WalterBradfordCannon
1376
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/27/13 - 02:20 pm
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InChristLove, in the 1830s,

InChristLove, in the 1830s, the Southern Baptist church said that those who would free the slaves were straying from the word of God. In the 1920s, the Southern Baptist church said that those who would allow women to vote were straying from the word of God. In the 1960s, the Southern Baptist church said that those who would void Jim Crow laws were straying from the word of God. Even today, the Southern Baptist church requires a wife to submit to the servant leadership of her husband, and denounces the notion of civil rights for gays.

"When religion twist scripture to play towards the worlds sensuality and to be more appealing to the world instead of standing firm of the Word of God, they are nothing but false religions. May sound harsh but God's Word is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, and changing it to pacify the world is not Truth."

Since you apparently stand by this statement, I suppose you think the church is quite the flip-flopper for reversing its statements on slavery and race-based civil rights? Perhaps you think the church never should have reversed its stance on women being allowed to vote, and are happy that women are not allowed to preach? There is really a broad spectrum of things that are generally considered sinful today that were once defended by the Southern Baptist church or other christian denominations. That does not mean they were right in those defenses, either when they applied them or now. The church is run by fallible sinners just like every other church.

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