Gays merely want rights

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Regarding Brian Green’s Feb. 14 letter “Homosexuality politicized”:

He wrote of weak politicians compromising their morals to allow provocative homosexuals to infiltrate and compromise organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. He argued this would wound the moral fabric of our society, and he urged other heterosexual men to stand up for what is right and to fight this homosexual assault.

As a proud father, husband and a member of the heterosexual majority of this country that supports rights for all Americans, I would like to explain exactly why I would not stand with Mr. Green but against him.

He and others have elevated the sinful status of homosexuality to something beyond adultery, incest, rape or murder. Where are the letters demanding we defend our children from adulterers? Where is the outrage for heterosexuals who have left their wives for younger girls and abandoned their children?

Where are the demands to keep out of the Scout troops those who made a vow before God to be faithful but chose instead lust and deviance? Why is it that a man who has been convicted of raping his own children is allowed to remarry in any state in the country? Call homosexuality a sin, but remember: There are many others sinners who have the same rights as you and I.

I also find Mr. Green’s assertions that homosexuals are forcing their “preference” on others and demanding special treatment to be absurd. Americans are demanding their equal rights – that’s all. They don’t care if you know they’re gay; they just want to have the same rights you do. They have no agenda; they are just like you, but they prefer their own sex. That’s all.

Finally, the false idea that being homosexual is a choice is simply a red herring. If no laws have been broken, how do genetics or choice affect the argument for equal rights? If two grown men choose to live together, they should be allowed to. If they choose to be Scoutmasters, they should be allowed. Pedophiles – often married to the opposite sex – and those who protect them in the name of preserving the dignity of their institution have broken the law. They should be prosecuted, and they should be the object of Mr. Green’s derision.

There is no infiltration. There is no conspiracy of gays. There are only sound-minded men and women demanding equal rights for all law-abiding Americans.

John Cashin

Augusta

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Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 12:47 pm
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I am not being insulting to

I am not being insulting to you, Willow nor am I bullying you. I answered biblical with biblical. And never called into question your belief in Jesus. Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Fred, Definition of a bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

It has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me.

harley_52
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harley_52 02/22/13 - 12:56 pm
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" Definition of a bigot:...

....a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices"

Sounds like you've described all those who are arguing your side of the issue.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:09 pm
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duff, I know that is a

duff, I know that is a favorite topic for you...is homosexuality a choice or an inheritance. My answer is: I believe it can be both.

Why do I think people are gay? I think there are a number of reasons for it. Here are a few: Like you, I believe there could be an inheritance of it (scriptural basis for my belief). Other reasons would include: peer/home/world influences; unhealthy, hurtful, failed relationships with same sex, rebellion and adventure could be a possibility.

Question 2. Yes, I do.

Question 3. I would tell them that what other people think is not really the issue. Our purpose in life is not to conform to the world but to the love of our Holy God.

PS...I beieve the same answer to be true for any of the sexual sins.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 02/22/13 - 01:02 pm
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- Knock knock! - Who’s

- Knock knock!
- Who’s there?
- It’s Jesus, let me in…
- Why?
- I have to save you…
- From what?
- From what I’m gonna do to you if you don’t let me in!

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:03 pm
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bruno, I have loved my

bruno, I have loved my neighbor, when I give them my support and the truth of God's Word in love, with grace and humility, admitting my own sinfulness and my personal need for Jesus daily.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:05 pm
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" From what I’m gonna do to

" From what I’m gonna do to you if you don’t let me in!"

No, GAD, from the consequences of YOUR OWN CHOICES!

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:07 pm
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GAD, living in a sinful world

GAD, living in a sinful world is not living. Heaven is to be a place for those who choose to live as God's people...no more hurt, no more tears.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:10 pm
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willow bailey

Do you know they've done studies on pre pubescent children into adulthood and it could be estimated more often than not which one's became gay as adults and which one's were strait. I'm curious what you think about that?

And since you agree that unmerited divorces and pre marital sex undermine the sanctity of marriage you would support making these things illegal along with gay marriage? You pretty much have to say yes now if you don't wanna get caught in a double standard! lol

And there have been many studies done on homosexuality and there is little reason to believe home environment, peer pressure, or social influence, has much affect on sexual identity. So I'd respectfully recommend you do some more homework on that one.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 01:14 pm
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Bruno defines bigotry, least we forget

Bruno says: “It has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me”.

Ah but you see, it has everything to do with your self perception and your projection onto others.

But hey, far be it from me to disturb your cozy little cottage, I’m sure you’re all smug and comfy.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:17 pm
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duf, now you are

duf, now you are disappointing me. I've taken my valuable time to converse with you, which many on this forum will not do with you.

Instead of having a meaningful conversation, relating and growing together in Christ, you want to bait and trick me...use my own words against me....

Does any of this sound familiar to you from the Bible?

Again, I'm disappointed in you; how very disingenuous of you.

You lack the spiritual maturity to have a conversation with me.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 02/22/13 - 01:17 pm
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Duffstuff

Mythology books such as the bible will trump science every time in Augusta, GA. But I appreciate your comments. Here's a little lesson that almost anybody could understand:
http://youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=PSQSx3OCrXQ

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:21 pm
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scientific studies have shown

scientific studies have shown that there is a high correlation with a person's genetic makeup and their sexuality. Not that environment doesn't have any affect. We are all influenced by our environment psychologically speaking, but its not a primary factor from what can be gathered. It may affect what traits one finds attractive to some degree but it rarely is seen to determine whether a person is gay or strait. Also either way would point to the fact that it isn't a choice. You don't choose your biology and you don't choose where or how you grow up.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 01:22 pm
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@duffstuff and Bruno

Duffstuff; Please go back to my original statement on page 3 and tell me exactly where I used GOD or religion in my argument. My argument was based upon NATURE alone, not necessarily created by God, but simply NATURE. NATURE dictates that a male and female naturally procreate, replentishing the earth of a species. No matter how you believe nature came about, this is not questionable.

BRUNO; your bringing RACE into this matter isn't going to fly, when considering my earlier argument.

Questions; Are black people NATURALLY born black? Yes
Can a black female and a black male NATURALLY procreate? Yes
Can a black male and black male naturally procreate? No
Can a black female and black female naturally procreate? No

RACE can't be brought into this argument with any rational logic, only leftist rhetoric. The population of blacks and whites approving and disapproving of gay marriage are very similar in percentage.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:24 pm
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My original point continues

My original point continues to be proven...no meaningful conversation between those with/without a Christ foundation. Information is neither knowledge, nor wisdom.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 01:26 pm
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And they just keep attacking

And they just keep attacking RELIGION and the Bible, ignoring an argument they can't refute.....Typical.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:26 pm
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Come on Willow, Seriously?

Come on Willow, Seriously?

I'm just asking questions. Do you believe there is a double standard in what I've brought to your attention? It's a simple question! I feel it's an absolute double standard. If you disagree then state your case but saying I've disappointed you does little to further this conversation.

carcraft
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carcraft 02/22/13 - 01:32 pm
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A couple of things for my non

A couple of things for my non Christian friends. One, as a Christian I find the writings of Paul on par with the Words of Jesus because we believe that the cannons of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. So while Paul was a fallible humen his writings under the inspiration of God were perfect. The second point is that we believe that because of sin we will see fallen actions in Nature. So I am not suprised that territorial males kill infants or young adult males such as adult male porpoises killing young male porpoises. Adult male bears killing young bears so they can breed with the mother. Do you really think this is how humans should act because it is modeled in the animal kingdom? Pedophiles claim they can't help themselves, are they born this way and if they are should they be allowed to continue In thier practices/

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:35 pm
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I would rather converse with

I would rather converse with a tree stump. Go try to peddle your "duffstuff" elsewhere. I have no interest in foolish conversation with self serving motivations.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:54 pm
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a few thoughts in response to my father15

I don't dispute homosexuality as generally against the intentions of God and or nature. But I don't believe in most cases homosexuality is a choice. I don't see any reason to think so. I assume you believe it was intended we be born a perfect man and a perfect women? I will agree with this sentiment. However nature is imperfect. If sexual nature is always a clear black and white, I have a hard time explaining the fact that there are people sometimes born with both male and female sex organs. Now I realize this is different from homosexuality but it does make one thing clear (in my opinion) and thats the fact that nature doesn't always get it right in the way were intended to be created.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 01:38 pm
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Duff "And there have been

Duff "And there have been many studies done on homosexuality and there is little reason to believe home environment, peer pressure, or social influence, has much affect on sexual identity"

Maybe someone else should concentrate on their studies instead of Willow.

"Researchers have provided evidence that gay men report having had less loving and more rejecting fathers, and closer relationships with their mothers, than non-gay men. "

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:43 pm
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???

What have I said that's so foolish Willow? Please clarify

Also I stated that there are some environmental factors involved if you go back and read. But either way whether nature, nurture, or both it does make one thing clear and that is the fact that its influenced by factors that are beyond our control and therefore not a choice. (at least in most cases)

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 02/22/13 - 01:43 pm
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Sanctity?

duffstuff posted:

And since you agree that unmerited divorces and pre marital sex undermine the sanctity of marriage you would support making these things illegal along with gay marriage? You pretty much have to say yes now if you don't wanna get caught in a double standard! lol

Willow does not need me to speak for her; she does superbly on her own. But I would like to address the fallacy of this baiting statement here. duffstuff attempts to tie together "sanctity" and "legality." There is no correlation. To the non-believer, there is no sanctity. Sanctity, sanctify, sacred, and other words from the same root means set apart for or by God. Being opposed to having the state allow same-sex marriages (as I am opposed) has nothing to do with sacredness nor with profaneness. The illegality of same-sex marriage is all about the definition of marriage as being a governmentally-recognized contract of exclusivity between one man and one woman.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:49 pm
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little lamb

So you're saying morality or making laws that enforce "the moral sanctity of marriage" (or its ideals anyway) has nothing to do with why it should be illegal?

So its not a religiously moral argument then?

If it's not an issue of moral policing then why do you care if the government lets Dan and Steve get married?

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 02/22/13 - 01:58 pm
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Someday, Georgia will be

Someday, Georgia will be pulled, kicking and screaming into the next century. In Georgia's case, that would be the 19th.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 01:59 pm
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@duffstuff

I appreciate your response, as most on your side completely avoid the question of nature.

Having said that; is this now being diverted to "Sexual nature"? What exactly is "sexual nature" and how does that supersede nature itself?

Also, I do NOT believe nature is flawed. I believe natures flaws, in the aspect you've spoken are created by mankind. I personally know a woman who has two FEMALE sexual organs. The cause of this has been link to where she was born in the mid 1970's in Jacksonville, North Carolina (Camp Lejeune Marine Corps Base). The LEAD levels in the drinking water of Jacksonville, NC during the 70's were at dangerous levels. There were thousands of reported birth defects from this. As a matter of FACT, I know this woman receives a check each month from a lawsuit files on behalf of those people.

Do you realize that until the mid 60's LEAD was a main component in many items in every day use in America, including thousands of children's toys? It's factual. Now LEAD has been proven to cause many side effects, including birth defects, where pregnant mothers were exposed to dangerous levels.

Through all the prescription medications containing dangerous components being PUSHED upon the people, steoriods being given to livestock to make the grow faster; for faster profit, dangerous ingredients in food, toys, equipment, materials, etc; I believe you will find it is MANKIND that has cause mankinds problems, not nature.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 02:04 pm
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Yes, GAD, because we know

Yes, GAD, because we know without a doubt that the progressiveness of man is so fulfilling.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 02:07 pm
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Usually, we champion

Usually, we champion something for a reason. And sense self is the center of man, Houston, I think we have contact.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 02:12 pm
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birth defects?

So you believe all birth defects are caused by external man made factors? Would the medical community concur with that theory?

I don't know one way or the other which is why I ask?

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 02:29 pm
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@duffstuff

You stated; "And since you agree that unmerited divorces and pre marital sex undermine the sanctity of marriage you would support making these things illegal along with gay marriage? You pretty much have to say yes now if you don't wanna get caught in a double standard! lol"

Again, I don't see how you can relate these two subjects. With a male and female there is a higher meaning than just personal feelings and love. There is the necessary aspect of replentishing thereby continuing the species. Divorce is the direct result of MANKIND's flaws, not nature. Most divorces are a direct result of selfishness which is spoken against many times in the Bible. Pre-martial sex is also completely about personal PLEASURE and of NO HIGHER MEANING. People consenting to pre-martital sex are NOT trying to procreate; that is actually a nightmare to them (and to us if you count how many of these children tax payers pay for). So, with these two arguments you are again speaking of mankinds failures and irresponsible behaviors, not nature.

BUT, Nature has established a natural order of precreation and that is a female and a male, period; thats a fact!! We must replentish the species or the result would be evident. Yes, an unmarried couple can procreate but it's NOT the most natural scenario. Couples have a much higher chance of success that single parents. Now, I can NOT accept couples who can NOT naturally procreate as being EQUAL to those who can. Therefore I would never vote for gay couples to be legally wed. I couldn't care less if they live with each other, love each other and so on. It's not my business as that is completely between them and God.

Also, this isn't about them being able to leave their property or financial assets to each other; as they can perfectly do so in this day with an executor of estate or will. I can leave my property to whom I choose by doing it the legal way and sexual preference isn't considered in these legal procedings. I know an elderly man who left a deputy partner of mine a large inheritance and the deputy was NOT in his family, only a very dear friend who took care of him. The man's children (who didn't give him the time of day while he was alive), tried to sue to stop the deputy from getting the inheritance, but they lost because the man had thoroughly completed the legally required documents.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 02:30 pm
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I believe the medical

I believe the medical community will concur that some birth defects are caused by external man made factors......as for all, like you.....no one really knows.

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