Gays merely want rights

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Regarding Brian Green’s Feb. 14 letter “Homosexuality politicized”:

He wrote of weak politicians compromising their morals to allow provocative homosexuals to infiltrate and compromise organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. He argued this would wound the moral fabric of our society, and he urged other heterosexual men to stand up for what is right and to fight this homosexual assault.

As a proud father, husband and a member of the heterosexual majority of this country that supports rights for all Americans, I would like to explain exactly why I would not stand with Mr. Green but against him.

He and others have elevated the sinful status of homosexuality to something beyond adultery, incest, rape or murder. Where are the letters demanding we defend our children from adulterers? Where is the outrage for heterosexuals who have left their wives for younger girls and abandoned their children?

Where are the demands to keep out of the Scout troops those who made a vow before God to be faithful but chose instead lust and deviance? Why is it that a man who has been convicted of raping his own children is allowed to remarry in any state in the country? Call homosexuality a sin, but remember: There are many others sinners who have the same rights as you and I.

I also find Mr. Green’s assertions that homosexuals are forcing their “preference” on others and demanding special treatment to be absurd. Americans are demanding their equal rights – that’s all. They don’t care if you know they’re gay; they just want to have the same rights you do. They have no agenda; they are just like you, but they prefer their own sex. That’s all.

Finally, the false idea that being homosexual is a choice is simply a red herring. If no laws have been broken, how do genetics or choice affect the argument for equal rights? If two grown men choose to live together, they should be allowed to. If they choose to be Scoutmasters, they should be allowed. Pedophiles – often married to the opposite sex – and those who protect them in the name of preserving the dignity of their institution have broken the law. They should be prosecuted, and they should be the object of Mr. Green’s derision.

There is no infiltration. There is no conspiracy of gays. There are only sound-minded men and women demanding equal rights for all law-abiding Americans.

John Cashin

Augusta

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Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 12:13 pm
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Love it!

One of the best letters published. Thoughtful, well reasoned and not full of hate, ignorance and bigotry. Love it!!

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 12:14 pm
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hey, harley, I got it, too.

hey, harley, I got it, too. That was my little thumb:)^
You just set me up to continue my point...that the two groups cannot see or hear the same things.

Gosh, what about youngfred...I sure didn't get from his comments what georgepeters did. Got to go back and reread him...

KSL
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KSL 02/22/13 - 12:17 pm
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Let's take the discussion back to the AC's headline

Key in on the word "merely." If that was/were true, would they really care about what words were used to describe their legal status as a couple entitled to rights? I think that those with less class and upbringing want to also stuff it in your face. (Sorry for the split infinative. I was taught not to do that. And when I got home, I was taught that again, not to split infinatives, that is.)

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 02/22/13 - 12:21 pm
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Humor

Harley_52 posted:

Willow... It was a failed attempt at humor. Sorry.

I got it, Harley. It was funny to me. :-)

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 12:23 pm
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karradur, I do want to clear

karradur, I do want to clear up one thing I said...we will not be struggling in heaven...only up to the time of our physical death.
It ain't easy..that's the purpose of the cross. We all need Christ.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 12:26 pm
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(Genesis 20:12) (Deuteronomy

(Genesis 20:12)
(Deuteronomy 25:5)
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29)
(Samuel 5:13)
(Kings 11:3)
(Exodus 21:7-11)
(Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

Karradur, you just proved my point. All of these verses relate to man's choice of marriage and not what God intended marriage to be. We should never assume that everything done by a godly person in the Bible is automatically approved of by God.

And the point you were trying to make?????

Young Fred
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 12:26 pm
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Bruno – well reasoned? On a

Bruno – well reasoned? On a scale of 1 to 2?

KSL
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KSL 02/22/13 - 12:29 pm
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Now to my point

Went to a Christmas concert in Charlotte some years ago. 4 male couples had tickets in front of us. They appeared to be young professionals in their thirties. No problems. As the concert progressed, each couple became more and more demonstrative of their affection for each other. All the while my husband and I and my son and his wife were just trying to enjoy the concert. Had they been 4 male/female couples displaying the same amount of PDA, (public display of affection), I would equally have been grossed out.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 12:29 pm
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@karradur

Well, if your children grow up to have children, which believe homosexuals shouldn't be treated different than anyone else; your children have already done one thing homosexuals CAN NOT, which is NATURALLY PROCREATE.

Did you get that word; naturally? See, whether you believe in God, evolution, big bang theory, etc. No matter HOW you believe we and this earth came about, a NATURAL order came about. The natural order or REPLENTISHING the earth with each species. In each species, this requires a MALE AND FEMALE. The OPPOSITE sexes naturally procreate, which tells me that the NATURAL ORDER is against homosexuality, which is good enough for me to never vote for gay marriage to be legalized. NATURE is the most powerful force on the planet; NATURE decides many things in this world and I say it should decide this as well.

Now, I certainly will stand against gays being discriminated against or bullied for their choices. But I'm sure mine and your definition of discrimination is far different. Gays should be able to live with and love whoever they choose and GUESS WHAT; THEY CAN!! But society shouldn't have to be forced into recognizing something UNNATURAL as NATURAL.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 12:38 pm
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Good point Myfather15, this

Good point Myfather15, this would be the point where the other side starts throwing out comments about water fountains, suicide, and concentration camps.

You made me realize something else – it must really bite to be a radical environmentalist. I mean how would one square their worship of Earth Mother Gaia, with that which is unnatural? Well maybe I give them too much credit, I don’t think they really tackle the issues with that much depth.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 12:39 pm
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"It's almost impossible for a

"It's almost impossible for a non-believer and a believer to have any meaningful conversation about anything important because there is no foundation for the discussion."

I guess all that time Jesus spent preaching and talking to non-believers was just a big waste of time.

"no parent who believes God (and some who don't) wants anyone leading or influencing their children in the way of sin."

Then you should be calling for ALL sinners to be banned from the BSA. Since we are all sinners that means no more BSA.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 12:46 pm
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@Young Fred

Actually, last time I used this argument; someone actually threw some insects at me which are hermaphrodite. I also told them that some insects, after breeding, eat their partner; if we are no better than insects, should we take up this practice.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 12:47 pm
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"I guess all that time Jesus

"I guess all that time Jesus spent preaching and talking to non-believers was just a big waste of time."

assuming you are equating Jesus to us mere humans, which He was not, so the comparasion is flawed. He was human but He is also God. Makes a big difference.

myfather15
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myfather15 02/22/13 - 12:54 pm
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In reference to the BSA, why

In reference to the BSA, why can the LEFT not get this. The Boy Scouts of America are a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION. Why should a PRIVATE organization BE FORCED to accept persons with a lifestyle, THEY DON'T APPROVE OF??? Please answer this simple question!! This is NOT a government organization. BSA isn't trying to round up gays and beat them to a pulp, they aren't trying to slander them. They just want to stand firm to their beliefs and THAT drives the LEFT insanely MAD!! Because the LEFT (Not homosexuals, because I know gays that are NOT far left) wants to JAM its agenda down peoples throats, period. But they are doing more harm than good for relations in this Country.

This would be like me going to the Augusta Chronicle (Private Organization) and saying "I want to be a journalist and you need to hire me, period." Then saying its MY RIGHT to work as a journalist and the AC is violating my rights because they won't hire me. It's insanity!! A private organization should NEVER be forced to hire anyone, it's just wrong. But the LEFT doesn't care about that. They believe the government should tell EVERYONE who to hire and how to run their business. It's communism at it's best and commies are NOT cool. Communists are the ultimate civil rights violators, period.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:55 pm
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hypocrites and double standards!!

All I can do is shake my head at some of the comments I've read on here. I don't understand why most religious folks can't distinguish the difference between what one might consider moral and what maybe should be legal or illegal. Or more specifically what should or shouldn't constitute as a federal matter. If we base every law on a strict interpretation of biblical morality then we need to outlaw all kinds of things but if we did that however we'd no longer live in a free society.

And the whole gay marriage argument from the standpoint of most christians is "we must protect the sanctity of marriage." My only problem with that mentality is we have legalized numerous things that undermine the sanctity of marriage. Unmerited divorce undermines the sanctity of marriage. So does pre marital sex. I don't see christians out there pushing to make these things illegal. In my opinion they should be pushing to make these things illegal as well if they want to maintain a consistent philosophy on "protecting the sanctity of marriage". However I don't see that, which makes focusing on the gay thing a bit of a double standard in my opinion.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 12:58 pm
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"no parent who believes God

"no parent who believes God (and some who don't) wants anyone leading or influencing their children in the way of sin."

Then you should be calling for ALL sinners to be banned from the BSA. Since we are all sinners that means no more BSA."

Bruno, I believe the destinction here is promoting one sin as being normal. We don't normally find the promoting of lying, cheating on a spouse, stealing, hateful behavior, disrespect, and spousel or child abuse as being okay and normal. I would not be okay with any of these sins being taught to my child that it was okay and normal, including homsexual behavior.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 01:14 pm
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The problem is that your

The problem is that your definition of a sin is your own interpretation of what is a sin. As to the "normal" issue, Blacks make up approximately 13% of the population of the USA. Since that is not the norm then in following the "don't accept those that are not normal" crowd we shouldn't allow them all of the rights an privileges of the "normal".

The Bible should not be the cloak you wrap around your bigotry.

See: Matthew 22:36-40 Mark 12:31 for clarification.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:20 pm
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Kind of funny, big Bruno,

Kind of funny, big Bruno, always thinking he's kicking my behind, but you are so not. What you did is prove my statement...

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

If you are going to talk about Jesus, get to know him first. Remember the whole dust/sandal thing? The pearls and the swine?

@ bruno..."I guess all that time Jesus spent preaching and talking to non-believers was just a big waste of time."

Who Jesus spent His time with were the disciples and the multitude who had a hunger and thirst for the things of Christ....not the religious Pharisees, the big talkers, the rule makers, The WORD Changers, the hard hearted, the politically correct.

@bruno..."Then you should be calling for ALL sinners to be banned from the BSA. Since we are all sinners that means no more BSA."

This statement shows me you have no understanding/ no foundation at all....again on which to converse, meaningfully.

What do you think the Gospel/ministry is truly made up of....confessed, repented, born again sinners. What do you think Paul was? Why did God choose him to be the apostle of the apostles?

Let me ask you the same question that karradur won't answer....do you want me to confess to your 9 year old scout daughter that I'm an out of the closet adulterous or lying or stealing or murdering mother, come follow me? Learn to be like me. I've got my rights, give em to me!

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:24 pm
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It aggravates me to the inth

It aggravates me to the inth degree when people throw around terms like "gay lifestyle" and "homosexual agenda"
And newsflash....if your child is gay, how you raise them or what religion he or she is associated with has almost zero affect on their sexual identity. And gay reform is basically a myth as well. Sure there will be a few that will flip flop but same goes for strait people who turn gay. These people may be making more of a choice but I've seen too many cases where you knew a child was gonna be gay even before puberty or sexual maturity. This should make people question the whole "choice" thing but people think what they wanna think I guess? I don't believe most gay people choose to be gay anymore than I choose to be strait. It's not a choice I had to make. It's simply my disposition.
No one wants to be alone in life. All gay people want to do is love and be accepted in society as human beings. We are all sinners so leave the judging up to God. Gay people aren't trying to corrupt our children. I feel like most fundamental christians make little effort to truly understand these people and quite frankly it makes me sad. I wonder what they'd say if they truly had to walk a mile in their shoes?

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 01:21 pm
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Young Fred. Those who value

Young Fred. Those who value reason over bigotry will find it well reasoned. Those who do the reverse won't.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 01:31 pm
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It is weak, Willow, to

It is weak, Willow, to attempt to call into question my faith. It is equivalent to saying "I know you are but what am I."

I never think that I am kicking anyone's butt as that is not my purpose. I do, however, know when I am speaking to a person who is attempting to garnish their bigotry with their narrow interpretation of the Bible is about. I would suggest to them to remove the plank from their eye before they go mote hunting.

If you were my child's scout master I would expect you to do your job and leave your adultery out of it. Gay scout leaders are not going to have "let's all be gay days" any more than you would have a "let's all be adulterers day". I would hazard to say the reason that your question wasn't answered is because it was a dumb question in the first place.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 01:32 pm
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Bruno, when you get down to

Bruno, when you get down to the brass tacks of the argument that is really all you have isn’t it? Agree with you or be a bigot.

I could make all kind of points about that assumption, but what’s the use? You’ve effectively slammed and triple locked the door on your reasoning.

You go man!

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:33 pm
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duff, I know you mean

duff, I know you mean well....however...
You love the sinner,but you call sin, sin, no matter what the sin is. If you love you give the truth...anything else is not love.

Jesus came into the world and dwelt as flesh among us to show us our need for HIM...all of HIM, grace AND truth. It is NOT grace OR truth. He never separated them. He never gave one without the other.

We say, I love you, but you've got a sin problem, no matter what it is.
Homosexuality does not get a break over other sin. To tell people it does is to support them in, for which you will be judged by God for that.

I do not walk in every sin, but I do walk in the shoes of sin, and I walk every day with women who struggle to break free of their sin and their family issues. I love every single one of them just as they are. My responsibility is to point them to God, not to the world.

The new church wants a watered down Jesus or no Jesus at all.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:35 pm
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???

Why would anyone give any of my posts a thumbs down? What am I saying that's so off target??? I don't understand?

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 01:38 pm
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Can one of those that know

Can one of those that know the mind of God point me to the list outlining the hierarchy of sin in the Bible. I can seem to find it in my Thompson Chain Reference.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:46 pm
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bruno, you accuse me of doing

bruno, you accuse me of doing exactly what you did to me. You wrongly used Jesus against me; when I used scripture to refute your remarks, you continue to be insulting to me.

Just because you say you aren't doing something, doesn't make it true for you bruno. You took my comments and tried to bully me with every statement and nothing that you said had any biblical foundation.

Jesus said you will know them by their fruit...I'm just inspecting the fruit, friend.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/22/13 - 01:51 pm
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Well ok willow baily I

Well ok willow baily I understand where you are coming from and I'm not here to argue what God considers a sin. I do however have a few questions....

1. What makes you so certain homosexuality is a clear choice? I'm not talking about the act btw, I'm referring to one's sexual identity? Do you think you chose to be strait? Why do you think people are gay?

2. Do you think legal unmerited divorces and sex before marriage undermines the sanctity of marriage?

3. If you ever talked to a gay person who told you they wish they were strait because their life would be easier and more fee of discrimination what would you tell them?

4. Do you know they've done studies on pre pubescent children into adulthood and it could be estimated more often than not which one's became gay as adults and which one's were strait. I'm curious what you think about that?

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/22/13 - 01:45 pm
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There you go again, bruno,

There you go again, bruno, what does the Word say about comparison?
Who, here, elevated one sin over the other? Changing the subject is a good tactic, though.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 01:46 pm
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Well Bruno, I suppose for

Well Bruno, I suppose for someone who is not familiar with God’s Word, they wouldn’t know what the universal definition of sin is. Here’s something to help “An immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.”

Since having the skin color of an African American is not an immoral act, then using it makes your comparison meaningless. Since 13% of the population is black and it may not be the norm, nowhere has anyone promoted “don’t accept those that are not normal”. If that was the case then everyone who suffers a disablility would not be accepted, everyone who has green eyes would not be accepted, anyone who writes left handed would not be accepted.

What has been promoted is, since homosexual conduct is a “sin”, “an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law”, and since the BSA uphold the moral teachings of divine law, that fact alone is the reason why there are some who do not want homosexual scout leaders to be leaders and promoting their sin as being normal.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/22/13 - 01:47 pm
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I am not being insulting to

I am not being insulting to you, Willow nor am I bullying you. I answered biblical with biblical. And never called into question your belief in Jesus. Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Fred, Definition of a bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

It has nothing to do with whether or not you agree with me.

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