Gays merely want rights

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Regarding Brian Green’s Feb. 14 letter “Homosexuality politicized”:

He wrote of weak politicians compromising their morals to allow provocative homosexuals to infiltrate and compromise organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. He argued this would wound the moral fabric of our society, and he urged other heterosexual men to stand up for what is right and to fight this homosexual assault.

As a proud father, husband and a member of the heterosexual majority of this country that supports rights for all Americans, I would like to explain exactly why I would not stand with Mr. Green but against him.

He and others have elevated the sinful status of homosexuality to something beyond adultery, incest, rape or murder. Where are the letters demanding we defend our children from adulterers? Where is the outrage for heterosexuals who have left their wives for younger girls and abandoned their children?

Where are the demands to keep out of the Scout troops those who made a vow before God to be faithful but chose instead lust and deviance? Why is it that a man who has been convicted of raping his own children is allowed to remarry in any state in the country? Call homosexuality a sin, but remember: There are many others sinners who have the same rights as you and I.

I also find Mr. Green’s assertions that homosexuals are forcing their “preference” on others and demanding special treatment to be absurd. Americans are demanding their equal rights – that’s all. They don’t care if you know they’re gay; they just want to have the same rights you do. They have no agenda; they are just like you, but they prefer their own sex. That’s all.

Finally, the false idea that being homosexual is a choice is simply a red herring. If no laws have been broken, how do genetics or choice affect the argument for equal rights? If two grown men choose to live together, they should be allowed to. If they choose to be Scoutmasters, they should be allowed. Pedophiles – often married to the opposite sex – and those who protect them in the name of preserving the dignity of their institution have broken the law. They should be prosecuted, and they should be the object of Mr. Green’s derision.

There is no infiltration. There is no conspiracy of gays. There are only sound-minded men and women demanding equal rights for all law-abiding Americans.

John Cashin

Augusta

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OJP
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OJP 02/22/13 - 01:57 am
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11
Thank you, Mr. Cashin.

Very well said.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 03:50 am
13
7
Well, now there is a lot there

Have you ever heard of bait and switch?

Let's look at this with “clear” eye.

The only way we can is to take each point, by point. After all, we are a free society, able to debate without fear, correct?

“He wrote of weak politicians compromising their morals to allow provocative homosexuals to infiltrate and compromise organizations such as the Boy Scouts of America. He argued this would wound the moral fabric of our society, and he urged other heterosexual men to stand up for what is right and to fight this homosexual assault.”

Well, the fact is that this is being “shoved”. “Wounding” would suggest a/an assault. Let's just leave this for the time being.

“As a proud father, husband and a member of the heterosexual majority of this country that supports rights for all Americans, I would like to explain exactly why I would not stand with Mr. Green but against him.”

OK, so far, so good, you've established a difference of opinion.

“He and others have elevated the sinful status of homosexuality to something beyond adultery, incest, rape or murder. Where are the letters demanding we defend our children from adulterers? Where is the outrage for heterosexuals who have left their wives for younger girls and abandoned their children?”
Well now, you've dropped off the reservation here. Who exactly has elevated one wrong-doing over another? I Suppose that if I put forth all my efforts against stopping spousal abuse, I'm some how a scumazare bucket, because I didn't shoot for child abuse? I've outrage for any scum, female or male that leaves the sanctity of their vows, and leaves their children hanging. Talk about child abuse...don't get me started – the stats are all there for everyone to see!

“Where are the demands to keep out of the Scout troops those who made a vow before God to be faithful but chose instead lust and deviance? Why is it that a man who has been convicted of raping his own children is allowed to remarry in any state in the country? Call homosexuality a sin, but remember: There are many others sinners who have the same rights as you and I.”

I was not aware of a scout unit that allowed a known rapist (a rapist of his own children no doubt) to be a scout master. Are you suggesting that – because none are perfect all should be allowed? Now that is a debate we maybe can have...but that is not what you're suggesting. No, you're suggesting that because some are imperfect, anything goes.

“I also find Mr. Green’s assertions that homosexuals are forcing their “preference” on others and demanding special treatment to be absurd. Americans are demanding their equal rights – that’s all. They don’t care if you know they’re gay; they just want to have the same rights you do. They have no agenda; they are just like you, but they prefer their own sex. That’s all.”

“I've never had “a problem” with Trans, homo's, Lesbo's, or whatever the current terms may be (I'm sure I've missed a few). I treat all with the same respect. Just don't get in my face, or my children s face and “claim” that your choice is OK!!

You're choice may be OK for you, but, do not claim that it is OK for anyone, or everybody just because they “choose it so”. If my child bully's a “trans”individual, I'll come down hard on him/her, just the same as I'd come down on him/her for bullying any week individual. DoNot even think that your transgender self requires special recognition.

“Finally, the false idea that being homosexual is a choice is simply a red herring. If no laws have been broken, how do genetics or choice affect the argument for equal rights? If two grown men choose to live together, they should be allowed to. If they choose to be Scoutmasters, they should be allowed. Pedophiles – often married to the opposite sex – and those who protect them in the name of preserving the dignity of their institution have broken the law. They should be prosecuted, and they should be the object of Mr. Green’s derision.
There is no infiltration. There is no conspiracy of gays. There are only sound-minded men and women demanding equal rights for all law-abiding Americans.”

“choice is simply a red herring.....” You've no science to support your position. As a matter of fact, homosexuality was considered a psychological problem, for many, many years. Did science change their mind? Hell no, current society changed their mind, in otherwords science had absolutely nothing to do with it , until, until, they were pressured into saying the “right” (as in convenient, accepted) thing.

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 03:51 am
4
1
,

ok

WalterBradfordCannon
1495
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/22/13 - 04:59 am
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13
The great thing about science

The great thing about science is that it is true whether you believe it or not, Young Fred. Much of it is reviewed in the book "Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why" by Simon LeVay, PhD. The overwhelming consensus of scientists that have reviewed the evidence does not share your belief.

http://www.amazon.com/Gay-Straight-Reason-Why-Orientation/dp/0199737673

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 05:32 am
12
6
Hard vs soft

That’s the funny thing about “science”.

“Science” in today’s society tends to go-with-the-flow.

One would think that it’s counter intuitive to go-with-the-flow. But hey, science is subjected to societal norms like anything else. If society deems something “good”, why, Bingo!, science deems it to be good. If society deems something to be wrong, … well you guessed it, “science” falls into line.

Of course true science does no such thing, but “reported” science is a whole different thing!

We could argue all day long about differences within the field. If you’re truly curious research the soft sciences take on homosexuality, and how “the field” fell into line with so called popular thinking. Pretty interesting “stuff”.

carcraft
28466
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carcraft 02/22/13 - 05:42 am
8
4
Science is not a buiness of

Science is not a buiness of consensus. It is not supposed to be a popularity contest ran by a polling company. How many people think that pork sausage contains less fat than beef sausage? Instead of measuring and recording we will form a consensus. We could save a lot of money on research if we just voted our opinion instead of conducting studies. How many moons should Neputne have, put your vote in at Science dot com and we will tabulate the results. We have PHD in social science recieving the same level of power in the pole as a PHD in aero space engineering. Now the aero space engineer may be smart but is he an expert in genetics and brain chemistry? The reason the periodic table works is because it wasn't based on consensus but on predictable factors related to atomic weight!

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 06:05 am
10
5
Exactly WalBradCan, that’s

Exactly WalBradCan, that’s why I made reference to “soft’ science.

In the world of physics there is no room for opinion. In the sciences of psychology, sociology, psychiatry, etc. there is no theorems that can be proved, there is no “proved” science. What there is, is, “tow the line” opinions, reported as hard facts.

A true student of the “soft” sciences will notice all kind of tendencies, and sometimes the studies of those tendencies are helpful when it comes to hunting down human monsters. But the rest of the science has been hijacked by PC dim-wits.

peace4784
130
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peace4784 02/22/13 - 06:11 am
1
0
Another anti God letter
Unpublished

Another anti God letter elevating perversion to the level of normalcy. I will never acept homosexual marriage. In Jesus name, Amen.

WalterBradfordCannon
1495
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WalterBradfordCannon 02/22/13 - 06:16 am
5
10
That's exactly right. Each

That's exactly right. Each bit of scientific evidence weights the probability of different hypotheses being correct. In the case of homosexuality, there are numerous factors, but the evidence supports them being determined prenatally, and some of them are determined genetically. As an example of Simon LeVay's original scientific contribution, he studied the size of the INAH3 nucleus in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus. This part of the brain is the most sexually dimorphic region. Neurons in the brain are created before birth in this region, so there is no contribution of postnatal experience to his work. The INAH3 nucleus is twice as large in heterosexual women as in heterosexual men. It is the same size in homosexual men and heterosexual women. LeVay's original contribution is added to a large number of studies on homosexuals and heterosexuals that find specific sexually dimorphic traits that are reversed, with respect to sex, in homosexuals compared to heterosexuals. Among these traits are the ratio of the length of the index and ring fingers, spatial targetting/learning, fingerprint patterns, perceptual speed, and others. The compelling hypothesis now is that exposure to androgens in the womb, along with genetic predisposition, determines sexual orientation as well as these other traits. For example, if you are male and have an older brother you have a predisposition to be homosexual - unless you were an adopted younger brother in which case your odds are the same as a first born son. Each bit of scientific evidence on determination of sexual orientation leads to the same hypothesis - the leading hypothesis in the field - which is that the overwhelming contributions to sexual orientation occur prenatally.

And discriminating against someone based on traits determined prenatally is about as morally sound as discriminating against someone based on the color of their hair or skin.

InChristLove
22485
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 06:17 am
7
5
Thank you Young Fred for your

Thank you Young Fred for your 3:50am comment. The letter writer stated "He and others have elevated the sinful status of homosexuality to something beyond adultery, incest, rape or murder." I have to disagree with this statement. I wouldn't want an adulter teaching my young son about morals any more than a homosexual. For incest, rape and murder.....I seriously doubt the BSA would hire someone as a scout master who has been charged with these ILLEGAL crimes.

InChristLove
22485
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 06:24 am
9
6
"For example, if you are male

"For example, if you are male and have an older brother you have a predisposition to be homosexual "

Odd...my grandmother had six sons (all from the same father) and none of them are homosexual. You'd think by this statement that at least the youngest , since he has 5 older brothers, or even the next to the youngest, would have had some tendencies of homosexuality.

harley_52
25880
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harley_52 02/22/13 - 07:16 am
9
5
In This Country....

....the following are legal practices.

1. Killing an unborn human being.
2. Defecating on your living room floor.
3. Pouring yourself a tall, cool glass of anti-freeze and drinking it.
4. Repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer.
5. Homosexuality.
6. Standing at a street corner along Sand Bar Ferry Road at 3:00 AM waving hundred dollar bills.

While legal, to one degree or another, most Americans find these things either unwise, odd, repulsive, self-destructive, anti-social, a sin, inhumane, or downright disgusting.

I don't want my children, or grandchildren, taught that any of those behaviors are morally acceptable, human nature, "normal," something to be "proud" of, something that should entitle practitioners to special privileges, or in any way encouraged by their teachers, scout leaders, politicians, or any other person in a position of authority.

Young Fred
21054
Points
Young Fred 02/22/13 - 07:20 am
7
5
Eeegads, WalBraCan Do you

Eeegads, WalBraCan
Do you actually think that the organ which is the brain can be so compartmentalized? Really? If so we can subject your, well not your, but let’s say the father’s of your field, to certain standards.

Back in the 1920’s there was noticed a marked difference in caucasion versus african regions of the brain. I’ve recently read of differences in pyscopaths “chemical reactions” in certain regions of the brain. Just the other day, yahoo ran an article of “prominent” scientist showing differences in those who were more prone to road rage.

Why given a year or two more of study, we could simply give a “brain test” to an infant and….well you know where this is going.

The FACT is Walter, we are eons from understanding the intracacies of exactly how the human brain works. While Simon LeVay may be a fascinating read, if he (or is it she? Not sure how “it” wishes to be catagorized) comes close to my grandchild with a caliper and a clipboard, well…he may have posited his last.

I know, I know; man in his infinate ego thinks he has everything figured out…. And there is nothing wrong with trying, but we haven’t even come close. Though some would suggest we’ve come very close, that’s when crimes against humanity will start taking place (once again) yet again.

Funny how we think we’ve advanced, yet history repeats itself.

karradur
2878
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karradur 02/22/13 - 07:25 am
9
9
...

Well, this will certainly be the most commented story on the site for the day.

I can't wait for our children to grow up and have children of their own. To them, the idea that homosexuals should have fewer rights than heterosexuals will be as absurd as the idea that blacks should have fewer rights than whites, or women should have fewer rights than men.

If you seriously believe sexual orientation is a choice, or that homosexuals are sub-humans, or something else as objectively absurd, I honestly pity you because the winds of history are not in your favor and there is one hell of a storm coming.

harley_52
25880
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harley_52 02/22/13 - 07:40 am
12
4
According To News Reports...

...Leon Paneta, the outgoing Secretary of Defense, has ordered the Defense Department to provide unmarried homosexual couples the same rights and the same taxpayer supported privileges as "married" homosexuals and married heterosexuals, but no similar provision was made for unmarried heterosexual couples.

Someone....anyone....please take a shot at explaining the logic, or reason, behind such a move.......or is it purely the left-wing agenda at work?

Do we really want to reward homosexuality above heterosexuality where the former represents 2-3% of the population and the latter the remaining 97-98%?

As a taxpayer, I resent such a move and have my doubts that it's even legal. If it is, it shouldn't be.

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 07:49 am
8
5
Karradur, You’ve allowed

Karradur,

You’ve allowed yourself to be led along the chute of human reaction, a chute that has been fabricated specifically to lead to certain reactions.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I can speak for many. I’ve never treated any human being as “sub-human”. I’ve a stepson that thinks he is gay. I treat him with respect, and candor, just as I would anyone. I believe he has just as much rights as any other human being, and would (and have) fight along side him to protect those rights.

You’re making arguments that have been spoon fed to an entire generation, and these arguments have no logical basis –

What is this storm you speak of? La cage aux follies on steroids? Are you going to force YOUR opinion on others? Just curious.

karradur
2878
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karradur 02/22/13 - 07:55 am
6
7
@Young Fred

"I’ve a stepson that thinks he is gay. I treat him with respect, and candor, just as I would anyone."

Those two statements are contradictory. You obviously don't respect him enough to think he's telling the truth.

harley_52
25880
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harley_52 02/22/13 - 08:16 am
8
4
"I can't wait for our children to grow up....

....and have children of their own. To them, the idea that homosexuals should have fewer rights than heterosexuals will be as absurd as the idea that blacks should have fewer rights than whites, or women should have fewer rights than men."

Yes, that's the strategy, isn't it? Get to them while they're young and indoctrinate them with a left-wing agenda that's all at once anti-American, anti-God, anti-family, anti-common sense.

Will it work? Maybe, but I doubt it. Actually, history would suggest it won't. If you're around long enough, expect a wave of traditionalism to push back hard and purge society of these kinds of movements. I can't think of a single successful society where God and family have been replaced by legalized infanticide and state sponsored homosexuality.

Can you?

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 08:17 am
7
4
Karradur, I truthfully

Karradur,

I truthfully believe, he believes he’s truthfully gay. Where’s the contradiction?

Little Lamb
49054
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Little Lamb 02/22/13 - 08:30 am
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5
Rights

John Cashin wrote:

There is no conspiracy of gays. There are only sound-minded men and women demanding equal rights for all law-abiding Americans.

There is not one single "right" being denied to law-abiding homosexuals.

What the activist homosexual special interest group is demanding are benefits. They are lobbying for special protected class status. I do not support that.

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 08:29 am
7
5
“…but no similar provision

“…but no similar provision was made for unmarried heterosexual couples.” That sounds discriminatory to me. While I’m at it, I’ve a friend, who has a friend that has been there for him through thick and thin, going on 14 years now. His friend happens to be female. She does everything in her power to make him feel at home, and welcome when he does come home. She wags her tail, shivers all over, and would lay down her life for him without question, she’s also blonde which doesn’t hurt. Where is her rights?!!!

Young Fred
21054
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Young Fred 02/22/13 - 08:32 am
5
5
Little Lamb

Little Lamb nailed it - except for one thing, the right to redifine words to suit your whims.

karradur
2878
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karradur 02/22/13 - 08:54 am
4
9
I'll tell you what. Let's

I'll tell you what. Let's take a look at the Gospels to see exactly what Jesus said about homosexuality, and that will settle the issue once and for all.

...

That's weird, there's nothing here.

...

...well, there was that time he kissed Judas. And the "disciple whom Jesus loved" is commonly thought to be John the Apostle.

Hmmmm.

Little Lamb
49054
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Little Lamb 02/22/13 - 08:55 am
7
3
Redefine

You are right, Young Fred. The right to redefine words is granted to the homosexual community, but not to the heterosexual community.

soapy_725
44121
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soapy_725 02/22/13 - 09:21 am
2
0
The right to stand in a Bible believing church
Unpublished

and proclaim from the pulpit that Almighty God is a liar. God said He made them male and female. There is no mention of Almighty God creating an "IT" in His own image. Had God made them male and male, then how could God instruct them to multiple and replenish the earth. There may be worms in nature that are self breeders, but the Bible does not proclaim three sexes of humans.

It is at the base of this perversion to discredit God. Some of the "sexual orientation choice" do not realize their true function. It is to stand in the street and proclaim to God, that He the Creator, has made a mistake. And if God has made a mistake, then He is a liar and the entire basis of Christianity is nothing.

The same circular logic is used by all unrepentant sinners. God made everything. So God made sin. Everything God made was good. So sin is good. I have absolved myself of sin, guilt and the need to repent. This "science is not complicated". It has been around sin the garden of Eden. It is the snake's fault. I have not done anything wrong.

What is desired by the "God is a Liar" consortium, is to practice their faith as a protected, abused, under[represented and special minority group.

Do the desires of nature's deviates dispose the law and will of Almighty God? Sodom and Gomorrah was filled with those wanting the right to call God a liar.

InChristLove
22485
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InChristLove 02/22/13 - 09:25 am
9
3
karradur, "...well, there was

karradur, "...well, there was that time he kissed Judas. And the "disciple whom Jesus loved" is commonly thought to be John the Apostle."

Seriously, you are not implying what I think you are implying. Do you even know what the word "love" means in this scripture. Jesus loves us all and our society has corrupted the word "love" to mean something sexual and this is not what this scripture is referring to.

Christ may not have said anything about homosexuality (we don't really know because we don't have every word He spoke) but He has defintely given us His description of marriage. He says a husband (male) should leave his parents house and cling to his wife (female) and the two should be one flesh.

No where in scripture does Christ say two male should cling to each other and become one flesh or two female should cling to each other and become one flesh.

Look some more at the gospel....

1 Corinthians 7:2
But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband

Hmmm.....each man his own wife and each woman her own husband (don't see anything in there about man and man or woman and woman)

RMSHEFF
18745
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RMSHEFF 02/22/13 - 09:30 am
5
2
karrudar

Jesus reaffirmed all of scripture as the word of God . Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. I assume you also believe the writing of the apostle Paul are not inspired either.

rmwhitley
5547
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rmwhitley 02/22/13 - 09:36 am
1
0
gays
Unpublished

don't want rights! They want supremacy. Kind of like Nero and the gay left of the Roman Empire. Isn't the "Roman Empire" a third world, separate group now?

Little Lamb
49054
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Little Lamb 02/22/13 - 09:39 am
5
3
Religion

I applaud John Cashin for not muddying up the subject by throwing Jesus of Nazareth into his letter. Unfortunately, karradur did throw Jesus into the discussion and we are losing track of Cashin's arguments and of those who responded to Cashin's arguments.

karradur
2878
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karradur 02/22/13 - 09:43 am
2
3
"I assume you also believe

"I assume you also believe the writing of the apostle Paul are not inspired either."

It's certainly not the same as having it in His words.

Man is fallible. Paul was a man. Paul was fallible. Only Jesus Christ was perfect. If it really comes down to it, who do you trust to know Jesus better? Paul, or Jesus Himself?

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