Don't allow gays in Scouts

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As a former Scout member, I would like to somehow vote for Scouting to maintain its current membership policy, and not bow down to pressure from the gay community to allow open or avowed homosexuals, or anyone who engages in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the Boy Scouts of America.

The Scout Oath calls for members to do their duty “to God” and to stay “morally straight.” The Scout Law states that a Scout is “reverent.” The majority of Americans adhere to the beliefs of the Holy Bible, in which the God of this Bible speaks against the homosexual lifestyle. Therefore, if the BSA changes its membership policy to include the gay agenda, then it must change its Scout Oath and Scout Law. If not, confusion would rule the BSA world.

If you cannot stand for something, you will fall for anything. This is not about judging others, but it has everything to do with what has worked all these years. And it is about fighting for one’s beliefs.

One solution: Let the gay community form its own Scouting organization. Then they would be acting like the BSA, whose agenda does not include merit badges for trying to force its beliefs/lifestyles onto the gay community.

William Getha

Evans

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faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 03:32 pm
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ICL

40 to 50 years ago, they were EVERYWHERE around here, remnants being seen in the pews of the older christian white church's. I am speaking about those times on the issue of acceptance, LGBT being in our time with the same ole' spouting about what is 'normal'.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 03:33 pm
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(burninater "2 -3% of

(burninater "2 -3% of Americans are Methodist, Mormon, or Pentacostal.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

0.3% children homeschooled.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

I don't think any of the above behavioral choices are abnormal, simply because they don't fall within the first standard deviation of a normal distribution."

You may not, but there are some who think any individual who professes a religion (not just Mormon, Methodist, etc) is in the abnormal category.

Where you worship or where you educate your children is on the same line as where you live. Society does not view these as normal or abnormal moral issues. Homosexuality is viewed by most of society as an abnormal moral issue just as marrying your sister/brother, having relations with you father/mother. The two/three senarios are nothing alike burninater.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/11/13 - 03:33 pm
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The only reason to deny

The only reason to deny homosexuals to openly serve in the scouts is bigotry. BTW, there have been homosexuals in the scouts for a long long time. They just had to hide what they were due to the bigotry they would face.

harley_52
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harley_52 02/11/13 - 03:36 pm
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Burninater...

If you wish to compare people who don't choose to live in Augusta (the norm) to people who do choose to live in Augusta then those who do are abnormal in that comparison.

Comparing children who were homeschooled to children not homeschooled would provide the result that non-homeschooled children were in the normal range, homeschooled children not.

You'd have to make a series of pairwise comparisons to determine which specific religion was normal (and which abnormal) in each comparison. Since there are so many choices (and therefore comparisons) the analysis is pretty meaningless.

Ditto for choices of city of residence.

Beyond being inappropriate for a normal distribution analysis, none of the comparisons you seek include the aspect of morality as does the homosexual versus heterosexual comparison. Further, you don't see people who live in Augusta pressing a political agenda that condemns as "Augustaphobes" anyone who doesn't choose to live in Augusta and you don't see Augusta citizens marching throughout the nation to proclaim their "Augusta Pride" as they smooch, hold hands, and parade about the Country wearing green jackets.

Most normal people consider homosexuality both abnormal and immoral. Most don't complain about it as long as it stays in the bedroom and between consenting adults. Move outside those parameters, and normal people get a little touchy about it because they consider it a threat to society to one degree, or another.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 03:43 pm
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"So if you don't complain or

"So if you don't complain or spend lots of money, your way of life doesn't count....I get it."
--------
Nope, that is not the case at all. But what it DOES mean is that you are unlikely to have your day in court, or the resources to educate others of your point of view. Hate to point out the reality of being heard in a loud and crowded world, but it takes money and power, not platitudes and chatroom logic.

"As for separate issues......no.....sexual deviants are sexual deviants. You can give them other names, or insist that the world accept them as normal, but it doesn't make it so."
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No, what doesn't make it so are blanket pronouncements. What DOES make it so are legal and financial rights and protections. Interracial marriage used to be a "perversion". Non-Christian religious practices used to be "perversions". Some still feel they are, but their individual opinions mean nothing from a legal standpoint. The legality of these practices is what matters. And that legality will be determined on a case-by-case basis. Sorry.

RMSHEFF
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RMSHEFF 02/11/13 - 03:39 pm
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What is Normal?

God's word clearly tells us His perfect plan is for one man and one woman for one lifetime and anything outside of this perfect standard is sinful. Yes, we are instructed to call sin..sin. All of us fail as evidenced by the divorce rate, out of wedlock birth rate(sex outside of marriage) ect. but we are never to call evil good. Many will try to justify sinful behavior in various ways but no one can escape God's truth. If you have a problem with what God call sin, your argument is with God as we are only His messenger. I have even had homosexuals try to justify homosexuality using Scripture.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 03:49 pm
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Where you worship or where

Where you worship or where you educate your children is on the same line as where you live. Society does not view these as normal or abnormal moral issues.
-------
ICL, the point I was responding to was Harley's that you could define abnormal simply by where it falls on a statistical distribution of behaviors. His argument that a 2-3% rate of occurrence is, by definition, abnormal, would equally apply to my examples.

I would also disagree that choices about how your children would be educated, or how you interpret a scriptural work, are not inherently moral decisions -- particularly as education and religion are, for many, the primary vehicles for the inculcation of specific moral law.

ultrarnr
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ultrarnr 02/11/13 - 03:51 pm
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Numbers
Unpublished

If homosexuality is so abnormal why do 49% of Americans support same sex marriage. What I think is abnormal is the bigotry expressed by a lot of the posters here.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 03:56 pm
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We do? Funny....the citizens

We do? Funny....the citizens of CA made the decision that homosexual marriage was illegal....and did it in a democratic manner...but that wasn't good enough. So again, I ask....who decides? It apparently isn't "us."
---------
Excellent point HA, I had overlooked the role of the application of Constitutional equal protections to this issue. Generally speaking, majority will of the population is a powerful determiner of legalities -- but protections exist to oppose even a majority, if that majority holds views that diminish the rights of others.

In this case, however, national polling clearly has shown, repeatedly, that those who seek to deny homosexuals specific treatments under the law are, in fact, in the minority.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 03:56 pm
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(faithson) “40 to 50 years

(faithson) “40 to 50 years ago, they were EVERYWHERE around here, remnants being seen in the pews of the older christian white church's. I am speaking about those times on the issue of acceptance,”

Excuse me faithson, I must have not read your comment correctly. I thought you said...and I quote ““This resulting in what we see these days, where christian white folk who have NO experience with black people are in the forefront of the republican acrimony towards people of color.”

Emphases on the words “resulting in what we see these days” So now you are saying you were talking about 40 or 50 years ago, not what we see these days.

Is this what they mean by double talk?

faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 03:56 pm
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evolution vs revalation

True, evolutionary religion carries a whole lot of baggage and a whole lot of 'do nots' that appeal to the intellect. revalational religion, based upon traditional religion, allows for the experience of the believer to go beyond the 'do nots' to evolve a spiritual, not intellectual belief system that demands tolerance, forgiveness and patience in ones life. Again, nothing is going to change the mind of an evolutionist on church doctrine, until that person has the capacity to allow his personal experience to overcome the tradition. new wine in old wineskins seems the proper metaphor here.

faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 03:59 pm
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ICL

remnants, left over... kinda like that scar from some stupid thing done when we did not know any better.

carcraft
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carcraft 02/11/13 - 04:05 pm
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I presented this earlier and

I presented this earlier and so far nobody has refuted the fact that pedophila is found at a higher rate in the homosexual community. Maybe some one would care to comment. Why do they need to be around children. I would submit that after the Spartans got through with a young fellow his sexual perferance ws changed.
• A study of male child sex offenders in Child Abuse and Neglect found that fourteen percent targeted only males, and a further 28 percent chose males as well as females as victims, thus indicating that 42 percent of male pedophiles engaged in homosexual molestation.
Michele Elliott, “Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What Offenders Tell Us,� Child Abuse and Neglect 19 (1995): 581.
A study in Archives of Sexual Behavior found that homosexual men are attracted to young males. The study compared the sexual age preferences of heterosexual men, heterosexual women, homosexual men, and lesbians. The results showed that, in marked contrast to the other three categories, "all but 9 of the 48 homosexual men preferred the youngest two male age categories," which included males as young as age fifteen.[36]
• In The Gay Report, by homosexual researchers Karla Jay and Allen Young, the authors report data showing that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys sixteen to nineteen years of age or younger."[37]
Conversely, Homosexual Pedophiles are Often Attracted to Adult Males
• A study of sex offenders against male children in Behavior Research and Therapy found that male homosexual pedophiles are sexually attracted to "males of all ages." Compared to non-offenders, the offenders showed "greater arousal" to slides of nude males as old as twenty-four: "As a group, the child molesters responsed [sp] with moderate sexual arousal . . . to the nude males of all ages."[38]

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 02/11/13 - 04:05 pm
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Law

Kind of sneaky how we went from Boy Scout policy to "equal treatment under the law." There is no legal right for a person to be a Boy Scout leader.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:06 pm
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Harley, after your 3:36 post,

Harley, after your 3:36 post, I am more than happy to share that "obfuscation" spotlight with you.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:09 pm
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Kind of sneaky how we went

Kind of sneaky how we went from Boy Scout policy to "equal treatment under the law." There is no legal right for a person to be a Boy Scout leader.
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And there is no legal pressure for the BSA to change their policy. It will be entirely a private decision by a private organization.

Kind of sneaky how it was implied that this decision was being forced upon them by "equal treatment under the law".

Humble Angela
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Humble Angela 02/11/13 - 04:12 pm
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"In this case, however,
Unpublished

"In this case, however, national polling clearly has shown, repeatedly, that those who seek to deny homosexuals specific treatments under the law are, in fact, in the minority."

Yet when the people actually step in the polls and vote in it, the results are the opposite from your unstated poll.

All of this is actually beside the point. The point is that the BSA are free to accept anyone or reject anyone they want for any reason they want. Only those who are intolerant of their beliefs are insisting that the BSA change.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 04:24 pm
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faithson, I fail to

faithson, I fail to understand your ramblings about evolutionary religion and revalation religion. What does that have to do with this article discussion....if you wish to make an accusation, just spit it out and stop trying to be coy in making your point. Standing on the Word of God who plainly states (although some will argue the point) that God views homosexual behavior as a sin, has nothing to do with doctrine or traditions.

And for your comment at 3:59pm??? Are you trying to make a point about something?

faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 04:31 pm
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ICL

sorry if I am confusing you. Its all good. let those who can hear, hear and those who can't... so be it.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:34 pm
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All of this is actually

All of this is actually beside the point. The point is that the BSA are free to accept anyone or reject anyone they want for any reason they want. Only those who are intolerant of their beliefs are insisting that the BSA change.
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Exactly. It will be interesting to see if money and public opinion trump personal moral belief in this American institution.

RMSHEFF
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RMSHEFF 02/11/13 - 04:34 pm
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InChristLove

You are correct, God's word is clear on this subject. This and all other sexual perversions are a result of the fall. There are some gray areas is Scripture but this is not one of them.

carcraft
27834
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carcraft 02/11/13 - 04:35 pm
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Those on the left never lose

Those on the left never lose and argument, they just change the subject. This went from homosexuals in the bosy scouts to race religion and equal rights...

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:38 pm
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Well, the perversion of

Well, the perversion of original sin is the result of the fall. No grey area there, either.

Perhaps we should ban those bearing the perversion of original sin from the BSA. You know, taking the moral guidance of the Scriptures into consideration and all ...

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:47 pm
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carcaft, it wasn't lefties

carcaft, it wasn't lefties above that brought in polygamy, the fall of man, etc...

Changing the subject is not a partisan behavior. We aren't as different as we're being groomed to think.

Bruno
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Bruno 02/11/13 - 05:31 pm
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Wrong RMSHEFF. There is

Wrong RMSHEFF. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says "marriage is defined as one man and one woman." In fact, the Bible is rife with instances of multiple wives or wives and concubines. God even gave several men wives (notice the plural).

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 05:38 pm
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Carcraft: "A study of male

Carcraft:

"A study of male child sex offenders in Child Abuse and Neglect found that fourteen percent targeted only males, and a further 28 percent chose males as well as females as victims."

So, men with an attraction to women constituted 86% of the pedophile population (100% - 14%). 28%/86% = 32%, which means that among the pedophile population, pedophiles attracted to women are OVER TWICE AS LIKELY to molest a young man than dedicatedly homosexual pedophiles.

Interesting.

LillyfromtheMills
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LillyfromtheMills 02/11/13 - 05:42 pm
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From Sean:

_____ is a slur. We don't allow it. Call them gays or homosexuals.

So my post is now:
Most have never even met a gay person - their father's - your friend shows some traits, why would you think their son or daughter didn't become full blown? I see atheists on here and can't believe they believe what they believe. Why don't ya'll find a solution to this problem? Cure em/kill them or accept them - I'm still wondering how much fire power I have - I know home land security has armed themselves to the gill. And the little gay person will be in the ditch beside me. I'M FINALLY PC!

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 05:46 pm
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burninater, since the

burninater, since the original sin was disobedience to God, then I'm afraid everyone would be banned from the BSA.

Bruno, afraid you need to brush up on your scriptural reading. The Bible may be rifeled with instances of multiple wives and concubines, but no where does it state God gave several men wives. God's silence on the matter of multiple wives does not mean that God approved or "gave them" to His Godly men.

Go ahead and try and use 2 Samuel 12, to state your case. The scripture says "the Lord, speaking through Nathan the prophet, says to King David, “I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your arms, and I gave you the house of Israel and Judah; and if that had been too little, I would have added you many more things like these.”

At face value, this seems to suggest that God gave David multiple
wives, when in fact if you read the whole context of the scripture instead of just a verse here or a verse there to make your point, you would understand that God was saying to David, I gave you everything you wanted and that wasn't enough, you had to go and kill a man and steal his wife. God is not approving of multiple wives, he's chastizing David for his sin.

InChristLove
22481
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 05:48 pm
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Just as God permitted divorce

Just as God permitted divorce because of the hardness of men’s hearts, so too He put up with polygamy because of humankind’s insolent stubbornness.

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 06:01 pm
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burninater, since the

burninater, since the original sin was disobedience to God, then I'm afraid everyone would be banned from the BSA.
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Exactly. People pick and choose which sins to selectively persecute in others, when God made it crystal-clear that we are all sinners, and judgment is His province. Not yours or mine.

This assumes the argument that homosexuality is a sin -- which I probably do not need to remind you, was never explicitly stated by either God or Christ in scripture. Rather, like the interdiction against interracial marriage, it was "gleaned" by men. I don't know if I'll ever understand the level of hubris necessary to put man's words in God's mouth.

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