Don't allow gays in Scouts

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As a former Scout member, I would like to somehow vote for Scouting to maintain its current membership policy, and not bow down to pressure from the gay community to allow open or avowed homosexuals, or anyone who engages in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the Boy Scouts of America.

The Scout Oath calls for members to do their duty “to God” and to stay “morally straight.” The Scout Law states that a Scout is “reverent.” The majority of Americans adhere to the beliefs of the Holy Bible, in which the God of this Bible speaks against the homosexual lifestyle. Therefore, if the BSA changes its membership policy to include the gay agenda, then it must change its Scout Oath and Scout Law. If not, confusion would rule the BSA world.

If you cannot stand for something, you will fall for anything. This is not about judging others, but it has everything to do with what has worked all these years. And it is about fighting for one’s beliefs.

One solution: Let the gay community form its own Scouting organization. Then they would be acting like the BSA, whose agenda does not include merit badges for trying to force its beliefs/lifestyles onto the gay community.

William Getha

Evans

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faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 12:42 pm
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'enticing and recruiting boys for sex'

I understand many people's attitude on this matter. I would only like for those who espouse these puritanical attitudes to RESPECT that others have a different point of view just as valid as there own. Having been a Scout Master for my oldest son's troupe years ago, I can tell you, watching out for those men who were involved that had spurious intentions was always a concern. I find that the open discussion about what WAS under the carpet is healthy and will come to be a good thing in the organization as the discussion is now out in the open. Allowing each troupe to establish its own parameters about its make up seems reasonable. Parents are still in control as are the supporting institutions. I am of a mind that many are making mountains out of mole hills out of pure and simple FEAR.

faithson
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faithson 02/11/13 - 12:58 pm
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LL

'tolerate homosexual molesting', having been involved with the crisis in the catholic church, to the point of being remunerated, I am well aware of what molestation is all about, for myself and for my good friends. Predators fall under a completely different discussion than this one. Casting an invective over a whole population of people one has no understanding of says a lot about the narrowness of one's world view.

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 02/11/13 - 01:11 pm
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Predators

Predators are the very reason for the current policy.

harley_52
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harley_52 02/11/13 - 01:39 pm
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"Rather it is about scout leaders....

....enticing and recruiting boys for sex instead of leading them in traditional Boy Scout activities."

That's just a small part of the concern. Most people believe that would be stopped pretty quickly and severe penalties assigned.

The real problem, IMHO, is that parents don't want their children taught that homosexuality is "normal," or "equal" lifestyle as a socially acceptable alternative to one man, one woman relationships, especially marriage.

The number of homosexuals in American society is in the 2 to 3 percent range. Clearly an abnormal behavior pattern if you believe in the commonly accepted principle of normal distribution. It is not, by definition "normal" behavior. Most people don't want their children taught that it is.

EEreader
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EEreader 02/11/13 - 02:54 pm
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Gays in Scouts

Why not ask the Scouting Leadership to adhere to their own policy on the matter?

http://www.bsaseabase.org/sitecore/content/scoutparents/Scouting%20Basic...

Home > Basics > What Scouting Is > Scouting Is Diverse

"Scouting is truly a melting pot. Scouts come from all walks of life, all types of family units, faiths, and racial and ethnic groups. The BSA respects the rights of people and groups who hold values that differ from those encompassed in the Scout Oath and Law, and aims to allow youth to live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the politics of the day."

As long as there is a boy who wants to be a scout, and his parents agree, he should be allowed the chance to participate. As for the leaders of the scout troops, etc., so long as they are acceptable to the national and local scouting leadership and are also acceptable to the sponsoring organization, that's good enough for me.

Gary Ross
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Gary Ross 02/11/13 - 02:33 pm
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In the mean time...

While we're all offering our poitns of view, and even arguing about who is right and who is totally nuts, Obama sits there with his feet on the desk laughing at the distraction his administration fabricated to further divide us.

LillyfromtheMills
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LillyfromtheMills 02/11/13 - 02:56 pm
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2
Brownie's, Cub/Boy Scouts

I was in Brownie's for about 10 minutes - not my cup of tea. My folks were the leader's of both cub/boy scouts - I went to every meeting. I earned my badges right along my brothers, but of course, since I was a girl I couldn't receive them. And I camped w/the scouts throughout Switzerland and not one of them ever treated me any different from them. There was no sex even thought of - not by me :) - the point is - I don't see why the gay/transgender/2-headed kid can't do the same. It didn't hurt my feeling that I wasn't a boy and not allowed to be equal cause I was taught not to beat the boys too bad cause I'd hurt their feelings - crazy mixed up world - my only concern is the adult male - when they sign up - the agreement is if he touches one child improperly (sexually) he will be castrated. How's that?

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 02:57 pm
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The number of homosexuals in

The number of homosexuals in American society is in the 2 to 3 percent range. Clearly an abnormal behavior pattern if you believe in the commonly accepted principle of normal distribution. It is not, by definition "normal" behavior. Most people don't want their children taught that it is.
------
The 2010 population of the greater Augusta metro area, at 556,877 is about 0.2% of the U.S. population of 313,914,040.

I sincerely hope that you have taught your children that living in the Augusta metro is an abnormal behavior pattern. Heck, from your logic Harley, being gay in America is 10 to 15 times more normal than living in Augusta! Augusta Pride!

ultrarnr
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ultrarnr 02/11/13 - 03:05 pm
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Bottom Line
Unpublished

When you start discriminating where do you stop. Why not exclude African Americans also?

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 03:06 pm
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Well, faithson, if we must

Well, faithson, if we must tolerate homosexual molesting, must we also tolerate heterosexual molesting between adults and children?
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Tolerance of sexual orientation is not tolerance of molestation. I am thankful that the majority of Americans have a basic grasp on this simple fact. The minority that can't wrap their minds around this fact? You do more damage to yourselves than to anyone else when you publicly state that a simple distinction such as this is unfathomable.

InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 03:30 pm
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2
I think Harley hit the nail

I think Harley hit the nail on the head with his statment concerning what most parents are concerned about......

"The real problem, IMHO, is that parents don't want their children taught that homosexuality is "normal," or "equal" lifestyle as a socially acceptable alternative to one man, one woman relationships, especially marriage"

burninater, I believe your logic has a great flaw. Everyone must live in one place or another so whether you live in Augusta or Youngstown, it is not considered an abnormal behavior determined by one place or the other.....unlike copulation. It is a normal behavior in itself but what determines the abnormality of it, is whether it is with a member of the opposite sex or with a member of the same sex.

Two totally different senarios but your confusion is understandable when you view it as being normal behavior. A majority of society does not, even though their view might be "to each his own".

harley_52
40808
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harley_52 02/11/13 - 03:38 pm
6
1
"I sincerely hope that you have taught your children....

....that living in the Augusta metro is an abnormal behavior pattern."

Sorry to let you down, burninater.

I would never teach (and my children would never consider) such an absurdity. All three of us would consider such a comparison totally foolish and an obvious attempt at obfuscation.

faithson
7858
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faithson 02/11/13 - 03:56 pm
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"The real problem, IMHO, is

"The real problem, IMHO, is that parents don't want their children taught that homosexuality is "normal," or "equal" lifestyle". No the real problem is that not 40 years ago the same thing was being said of desegregation in this part of the country and most good white christians voted with their pocket books in sending their children to what was basically all white schools to keep them 'normal'. This resulting in what we see these days, where christian white folk who have NO experience with black people are in the forefront of the republican acrimony towards people of color.

burninater
13371
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:09 pm
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Alright harley and ICL, let's

Alright harley and ICL, let's consider a couple more minority statuses, as you think place of residence is an incorrect (ICL) or foolish and obfuscative (harley) analogy.

2 -3% of Americans are Methodist, Mormon, or Pentacostal.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

0.3% children homeschooled.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

I don't think any of the above behavioral choices are abnormal, simply because they don't fall within the first standard deviation of a normal distribution. Rather, I think the freedom to not be forced into compliance with statistically normative behavior, particularly when said behavior harms noone, is a profoundly American value.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/11/13 - 04:17 pm
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2
Who is harmed by polygamy?
Unpublished

Who is harmed by polygamy? Who is harmed by a man who wants to marry his adult daughter, or a woman who wants to marry her adult son? These are still illegal and considered taboo. Who decides which deviations are allowed and which ones are not?

burninater
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:19 pm
4
4
Noone is harmed by polygamy,

Noone is harmed by polygamy, HA.

Two obvious truths:

1) polygamists have not produced the numbers or economic influence to push polygamy to the point of serious considerations of its legality. Will they ever? Couldn't tell you. Will it become a point of national debate on the meaning of freedom in this country if it does? Of course.

2) (and more obvious) Polygamy is not homosexuality. They are entirely separate issues. I prefer to think that we have reached the level of intellectual sophistication as a society that we can consider separate issues separately. What do you think about that?

InChristLove
22493
Points
InChristLove 02/11/13 - 04:20 pm
4
2
"where christian white folk

"where christian white folk who have NO experience with black people "

SERIOUSLY faithson? Please tell me where you find these christian white folk who haven't had any experience with black people? And just like the senario burniater used, yours is even worse.

burninater
13371
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:25 pm
3
3
HA, you added more categories of

HA, you added more categories of behavior since I responded, but my point 2 specifically applies to those cases as well.

Who decides, HA? WE DO. Not an elite of religious leaders, and not the Scriptures. Welcome to America, a representative democracy. And we will decide these things each on their own merits, not as a package deal, as we do in this free country based on the rule of secular law.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/11/13 - 04:25 pm
6
3
"polygamists have not
Unpublished

"polygamists have not produced the numbers or economic influence to push polygamy to the point of serious considerations of its legality."

So if you don't complain or spend lots of money, your way of life doesn't count....I get it.

As for separate issues......no.....sexual deviants are sexual deviants. You can give them other names, or insist that the world accept them as normal, but it doesn't make it so.

allhans
25544
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allhans 02/11/13 - 04:27 pm
3
1
Since faithson has brought

Since faithson has brought race into play..There are many ethnic groups in the world that won't allow their people to marry a person of a different race. But, go ahead. WE can take it.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 02/11/13 - 04:27 pm
4
2
We do? Funny....the citizens
Unpublished

We do? Funny....the citizens of CA made the decision that homosexual marriage was illegal....and did it in a democratic manner...but that wasn't good enough. So again, I ask....who decides? It apparently isn't "us."

faithson
7858
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faithson 02/11/13 - 04:32 pm
3
5
ICL

40 to 50 years ago, they were EVERYWHERE around here, remnants being seen in the pews of the older christian white church's. I am speaking about those times on the issue of acceptance, LGBT being in our time with the same ole' spouting about what is 'normal'.

InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 02/11/13 - 04:33 pm
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2
(burninater "2 -3% of

(burninater "2 -3% of Americans are Methodist, Mormon, or Pentacostal.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

0.3% children homeschooled.

Abnormal behavior pattern?

I don't think any of the above behavioral choices are abnormal, simply because they don't fall within the first standard deviation of a normal distribution."

You may not, but there are some who think any individual who professes a religion (not just Mormon, Methodist, etc) is in the abnormal category.

Where you worship or where you educate your children is on the same line as where you live. Society does not view these as normal or abnormal moral issues. Homosexuality is viewed by most of society as an abnormal moral issue just as marrying your sister/brother, having relations with you father/mother. The two/three senarios are nothing alike burninater.

Bruno
780
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Bruno 02/11/13 - 04:33 pm
6
5
The only reason to deny

The only reason to deny homosexuals to openly serve in the scouts is bigotry. BTW, there have been homosexuals in the scouts for a long long time. They just had to hide what they were due to the bigotry they would face.

harley_52
40808
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harley_52 02/11/13 - 04:36 pm
3
3
Burninater...

If you wish to compare people who don't choose to live in Augusta (the norm) to people who do choose to live in Augusta then those who do are abnormal in that comparison.

Comparing children who were homeschooled to children not homeschooled would provide the result that non-homeschooled children were in the normal range, homeschooled children not.

You'd have to make a series of pairwise comparisons to determine which specific religion was normal (and which abnormal) in each comparison. Since there are so many choices (and therefore comparisons) the analysis is pretty meaningless.

Ditto for choices of city of residence.

Beyond being inappropriate for a normal distribution analysis, none of the comparisons you seek include the aspect of morality as does the homosexual versus heterosexual comparison. Further, you don't see people who live in Augusta pressing a political agenda that condemns as "Augustaphobes" anyone who doesn't choose to live in Augusta and you don't see Augusta citizens marching throughout the nation to proclaim their "Augusta Pride" as they smooch, hold hands, and parade about the Country wearing green jackets.

Most normal people consider homosexuality both abnormal and immoral. Most don't complain about it as long as it stays in the bedroom and between consenting adults. Move outside those parameters, and normal people get a little touchy about it because they consider it a threat to society to one degree, or another.

burninater
13371
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:43 pm
3
5
"So if you don't complain or

"So if you don't complain or spend lots of money, your way of life doesn't count....I get it."
--------
Nope, that is not the case at all. But what it DOES mean is that you are unlikely to have your day in court, or the resources to educate others of your point of view. Hate to point out the reality of being heard in a loud and crowded world, but it takes money and power, not platitudes and chatroom logic.

"As for separate issues......no.....sexual deviants are sexual deviants. You can give them other names, or insist that the world accept them as normal, but it doesn't make it so."
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No, what doesn't make it so are blanket pronouncements. What DOES make it so are legal and financial rights and protections. Interracial marriage used to be a "perversion". Non-Christian religious practices used to be "perversions". Some still feel they are, but their individual opinions mean nothing from a legal standpoint. The legality of these practices is what matters. And that legality will be determined on a case-by-case basis. Sorry.

RMSHEFF
36837
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RMSHEFF 02/11/13 - 04:39 pm
4
3
What is Normal?

God's word clearly tells us His perfect plan is for one man and one woman for one lifetime and anything outside of this perfect standard is sinful. Yes, we are instructed to call sin..sin. All of us fail as evidenced by the divorce rate, out of wedlock birth rate(sex outside of marriage) ect. but we are never to call evil good. Many will try to justify sinful behavior in various ways but no one can escape God's truth. If you have a problem with what God call sin, your argument is with God as we are only His messenger. I have even had homosexuals try to justify homosexuality using Scripture.

burninater
13371
Points
burninater 02/11/13 - 04:49 pm
3
3
Where you worship or where

Where you worship or where you educate your children is on the same line as where you live. Society does not view these as normal or abnormal moral issues.
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ICL, the point I was responding to was Harley's that you could define abnormal simply by where it falls on a statistical distribution of behaviors. His argument that a 2-3% rate of occurrence is, by definition, abnormal, would equally apply to my examples.

I would also disagree that choices about how your children would be educated, or how you interpret a scriptural work, are not inherently moral decisions -- particularly as education and religion are, for many, the primary vehicles for the inculcation of specific moral law.

ultrarnr
1748
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ultrarnr 02/11/13 - 04:51 pm
0
0
Numbers
Unpublished

If homosexuality is so abnormal why do 49% of Americans support same sex marriage. What I think is abnormal is the bigotry expressed by a lot of the posters here.

burninater
13371
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burninater 02/11/13 - 04:56 pm
3
3
We do? Funny....the citizens

We do? Funny....the citizens of CA made the decision that homosexual marriage was illegal....and did it in a democratic manner...but that wasn't good enough. So again, I ask....who decides? It apparently isn't "us."
---------
Excellent point HA, I had overlooked the role of the application of Constitutional equal protections to this issue. Generally speaking, majority will of the population is a powerful determiner of legalities -- but protections exist to oppose even a majority, if that majority holds views that diminish the rights of others.

In this case, however, national polling clearly has shown, repeatedly, that those who seek to deny homosexuals specific treatments under the law are, in fact, in the minority.

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