Why not theorize on God?

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Most of the time religion has little to do with science. However, I see hypocrisies in what we’re allowed to theorize and what is taboo.

String theory suggests that alternate, parallel universes may be possible. This is totally theoretical because it likely can’t be known for sure. It can’t be proved or disproved. This is totally acceptable to converse about in the scientific community, but when someone theorizes the possibility of God, he is called a crackpot.

So God can’t even be discussed as a theoretical concept – despite that there are brilliant scientists who say God could be possible, basing this hypothesis on scientific observations such as the math that makes up the fine tuning of the universe; DNA; the cell; etc.?

So science is allowed to hypothesize alternate, parallel universes, and no one has a problem with that. But if someone hypothesizes God, he is laughed out of the scientific community. Both are theoretical, and neither can be known to exist for certain. Yet one is viewed as good science and the other is seen as foolishness. That hypothesis sounds more like hypocrisy!

If God does exist, it’s probably just in one of these unseen alternate universes. Wouldn’t that be the ultimate irony!

Dallas Duff

Evans

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fedex227
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fedex227 02/03/13 - 12:32 am
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Huh?
Unpublished

Huh?

Chris 232
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Chris 232 02/03/13 - 02:54 am
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It's called "special
Unpublished

It's called "special pleading," a feeble tactic used by believers to try to reconcile the notion of a supreme being, i.e. "god" and science. What they don't understand is that faith and science, by their very nature are incompatible. The writer is probably fascinated by science, but is frustrated that it makes no concessions for "god," be it the Bronze Age Yahweh type or the thousands of other delusional variations that inhabit the mythology shelves in the reading room. But at least he has an audience with the AC and probably faux news.

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/03/13 - 07:15 am
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String theory

I have heard kids talking about this.....I think I live in one of these places sometimes....:)

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 08:17 am
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Geeez

Another religious debate maker.....

OK, time to rumble!!

Remember, keep the words above the brain and who proves there is or there isn't a God wins..

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 02/03/13 - 10:32 am
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Goodmorning Duffstuff.

Goodmorning Duffstuff. Interesting letter. Here's the only thing that matters. Does God exist for you and where does he exist for you?

Jane18
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Jane18 02/03/13 - 02:17 pm
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Parallel Universes?

Since there is only One universe, how about another dimension? A dimension that we are in, and a dimension that our spirit and soul go to after our flesh/mortal death? I would ask some of you if at someone's impending death, did you or maybe someone else, hear your loved one call the name or be speaking to a relative or someone very close, that had passed away? I have had several family members and one very close friend that did this. Especially, I remember my Daddy speaking to three different people(I had a baby monitor in his room and mine). But, the one very meaningful experience was when he asked me about the little boy that had been laying beside him in his hospital bed. I knew that when a person is sick and dying to not question or quiz them, it confuses and frustrates that person. So, I told Daddy, not to worry, he would probably come back. Two more mornings, the little boy was mentioned, I would always say something positive, and that seemed to satisfy my Daddy. He passed away two or three days later. I believe there is a "space of time" when one dimension can meet that other dimension, sort of an easing of death, some will understand this, some will not........until it happens to you or a loved one. Oh, by the way, when my Daddy was a baby, his 2-year-old brother died.............................

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 06:03 pm
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some added thoughts...

This article is meant to be about what we're allowed to talk about in science. I'm not trying to prove there is or isn't a God, in fact one of the key points was that its probably unprovable scientifically speaking. I'm trying to address a hypocrisy in scientific debate. And to anyone who's unfamiliar with the concept of string theory and alternate universes, you can research the concept but your brain is likely to explode in the process. lol
The point of this article is not to express my personal beliefs. And I would argue that what we believe personally isn't all that matters because people believe all kinds of things in their own mind. You always have to be open to criticism and debate otherwise you might as well just join some "fruit punch drinkin" cult. If all that matters is whats in your own head, then the mentality becomes the same. What matters is having intelligent conversations and allowing that to shape your beliefs and opinions. And Sometimes the most honest answer is "I don't know?" Sure I have my personal beliefs but I'm not gonna use this forum to discuss them too deeply because that has little to do with my original point. However I will say that I do believe in God, but if you asked me can I know 100% without a doubt that God exists than I would say that I can't know for sure with absolute certainty. I think there are reasons to believe in God, as I stated above, but I can't prove he exists. I'll conclude with this: My original article is one about science not necessarily about faith so I will leave leave most of my personal philosophical views out of this. But to sum all this up...Yes, I believe in God and yes I believe there are reasons to consider that hypothesis in the field of science. I'm always willing to have an open discussion about the topic as should everyone. Most of us don't want to listen to each other. wether that's an atheist, or christian, or muslim or whatever. There have been studies that have been done that show how we receive information is directly based upon our pre determined biases. This is the reason why truly open minded debates are near impossible. I would just urge everyone to be weary of this concept and to truly listen to what others have to say, and research every perspective with an open mind. If we all did this, then we'd all get a little closer to the truth. Btw most people will read that last statement with an absolute bias because we all assume what we currently think is true. Really the biggest truth of all is admitting we don't know everything and we're not always right.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 07:16 pm
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Science can't address

Science can't address supernatural phenomena. The whole concept of God is God is spirit-which means science can't address it-you have to be able to test a hypothesis and the ability to falsify it. It has to be a measureable phenomenon. Now I believe in a God without measure so that becomes problematic. You can't falsify what by definition is unfalsifiable. But scientist do make non-scientific statements. Richard Dawkins is infamous with it-The Selfish Gene is an interesting idea but not really science because it can't be falsified. I have no idea why scientist believe there is life on other planets-because as far as we know there is no evidence to support such. Oh Science NEVER proves anything-it is a process that can only either falsify or provide evidence to support. But no proofs-that's math. Read up on the great debates by Dawkins and Stephen Gould on the topic of religions and faith. Gould call it Non-overlapping majesteria and posits there are different domains. I agree with his analysis.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 09:21 pm
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I don't too many people

I don't know too many people who believe in a "theoretical" God. There are people who believe in the God gene and that God doesn't have to be real but still a worthy pursuit.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 10:36 pm
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Odd I never believed in God

Odd I never believed in God at all for over 4 decades-except as an entertaining mythical god like all the other mythical gods. I could have cared less what people believed in-maybe I was just too egocentric. I kind of thought it was for weak minded men and old ladies. Then GOD introduced himself and I experienced God which then set me on a spiritual journey. Some two years later after searching out all the great faiths-I found Christ. I think Christ is that God I met two years earlier. He did the same to Saul of Tarsus.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 10:46 pm
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My only question Bizkit is

My only question Bizkit is should it be acceptable to theorize parallel universes? This can't be falsified either. Is there a double standard? Is it just because alot of people don't want to talk about God? It seems like you either have to allow both conversations or omit both to be totally fair?

And I'm always interested to hear people's stories of how and why they believe what they do. How did God reveal himself to you exactly?

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 11:28 pm
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You can theorize about

You can theorize about anything you want-but in strict science terms you have to be able to falsify it. The study of black holes and string theory aren't based on imagination but mathematical probabilites and physics. Now you can theorize about a god-like the premise of one of the Star Trek movies. But the God of Abraham isn't a physical entity to study. People hypothesize what was before the universe, what is outside the universe too, and some scientist assume that abiogenesis may have happened more than once and their maybe a different kind of life. But other than the bacteria they thought used aresenic rather than phosphate in the DNA backbone, I don't know of any other life. You could hypothesize that God may have "lived" in one of the dimensions that collapsed to our present conformation during the early universe but without anything to study or falsify-what are you going to do. Black holes were theoretical long before any evidence to support-just like the God particle. As far as I know no one has identified the God gene either.
I had a strange and prophetic vision late in life related to a research project I was working on (I use to be a medical researcher). All my prophecy miraculously came true-and was quite unpredictable. Course it made me look like genius for having figured it out. That experience flipped me out-am I insane (which if it hadn't come true then I would have some concern), Then the two years studying the great faiths and trying to figure out who this "god" was. Oddly enough our Chairman was similarly on a spiritual journey during the same time-he became interested in eastern spiritualism. Anyways cut to the chase-I found Christ which he has a powerful altruistic philosophy that seemed about as strange as relativity to me-cause it just don't make sense at times.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 11:35 pm
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It would be a hoot if science

It would be a hoot if science did find unequivocal evidence to support the possiblity of a God-or at least a creator. Scientifically speaking because Venter has created life (well more like deconstruct and reconstruct), then intelligent design (not as a religious ruse of creationism) has to be entertained because an intelligent being has "created" life. Heck of a note. I guess the Prometheus premise a bit.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/03/13 - 11:40 pm
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Only my personal opinion, but

Only my personal opinion, but if someone has to ask how God reveals himself, then I'd say you haven't met my Lord. If He revealed Himself to you and you accepted Him as Lord and Savior you would know the answer to that question. To say you believe and then to say you can not say without a doubt that He is real, then you don't truly believe.

I can't prove God exist to anyone else but I know without a doubt He does. I feel His presense every day, He speaks to me through His Word (not in audible voice but with spiritual guidance). I feel his comforting and guiding hand on my life, and I definitely feel His correction when I disobey and stray from the path He wants for my life.

I believe Willow had it right "Does God exist for you and where does he exist for you?"

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 11:46 pm
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And the greatest witness to a

And the greatest witness to a real God is the real change that inevitably happens from the experience, the real peace through the storm because you do have faith. I have a friend who was a drug addict, bank robber, and murderer-after God got a hold of him now I would trust him with my life. That is the kind of change I'm talking about. I wasn't even a human being till I found Christ.

burninater
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burninater 02/04/13 - 12:29 am
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Nowhere does science disallow

Nowhere does science disallow hypotheses concerning God. Nowhere. The LTE-writer is entirely wrong on this.

What science DEMANDS is falsifiable hypotheses (hypotheses that can be disproven). For example, the statement "pink unicorns live on the moon and can't be sensed by any means available to man" is not falsifiable, and therefore not a hypothesis that would be considered by the scientific method.

Anyone is welcome to forward a falsifiable hypothesis about God for science to consider. It is not the fault of science that noone has yet successfully done so.

shrimp for breakfast
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shrimp for breakfast 02/04/13 - 05:37 am
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Good one ICL

God helps me get through every day! I know he's there. I can't prove it to anyone but I don't need to.!

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/04/13 - 11:31 am
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to In ChristLove I'm sorry

to In ChristLove I'm sorry that I'm so pragmatic about things but I first off have to say that faith is not something that is proven in absolutes and therefore cannot be known with absolute certainty. You can say you believe it with absolute certainty but faith isn't a fact. Thats not to say its wrong but if we knew faith to be a fact it wouldn't require faith. And there are lots of people who doubt. I trust those who say they have doubts over those who say they are certain. I get why people say they are certain. For starters they don't want to get to heaven and feel like they let God down in any way by having doubts but faith is having certainty where certainty cannot exist. (That's why its faith) So its somewhat disingenuous, in my opinion, to say you know something which cannot be known. You can say you have faith all day long and thats fine, but as soon as you say you know you're making a false statement because you don't really know. (You wouldn't need faith if you did)

And Different people have all kinds of different stories about how they came to whatever their faith happens to be. Some are better than others. Excuse me for wanting to know that! And there are lots of people who believe other things with their own stories of conversion as well so pardon me for wanting to learn and understand this. And believe it or not there are people who have converted from christianity to other religions. And I'm sure you're gonna come up with your own reason as to why that is, but you don't know these people's stories. I want to meet as many different people as possible and I want to know about their journeys. Not all of us come to the same conclusion. You may say these people are just influenced by Satan, and I certainly can't disprove that, but reality is alot more complicated when you're willing to look at it from the human perspective.

Btw what would you say to somebody who believes God is speaking to them through an opposing religion? I guess those people are just crazy or influenced by the devil? And maybe they are but if thats how it works then there's no way of really knowing that scenario can't be flipped.

And I've never had a really profound religious experience. I've had moments where I think maybe this is God leading me in a certain direction but never anything so profound thats it seemed miraculous. I do question alot of things. You have to question everything in order to get to the answer. Maybe I'll never have a clear understanding but if you don't question your belief than you don't really believe it to begin with because you haven't put it up to rigorous examination. I told you I believe in God but I have no absolute reason to be 100% certain and neither do most people I've ever met even in the church.

Btw if you only have to prove God exists to yourself than you can't say Muslims are wrong because they believe in their God (as determined by their faith) and they don't have to prove it to anyone else just as you say!

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/04/13 - 01:25 pm
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I appologize for the long

I appologize for the long post but I do believe it is important to say this.

Duffstuff, I do believe you misunderstood or read my comment incorrectly. Not once did I bring my faith into this topic. I believe I stated I KNOW God exist because I feel His presence every day. I see the works of His hand every day. So you are totally incorrect when you state “For starters they don’t want to get to heaven and feel like they let God down in any way by having doubts”. My friend, we are all going to feel like we let God down (because we have) and it isn’t because of some doubts or weak faith. We let Him down every day because we are imperfect humans and sin every day….that is what disappoints God.

Evidently I misunderstood the question you were asking and I apologize. I did not realize that you were asking Bizkit to give his testimony on how his salvation came to be and his journey to salvation. I thought you were asking how God revealed Himself to Bizkit. When we are convicted by the Holy Spirit and accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, God is present. The experience may not be dramatic, it may be in the stillness of a quiet moment or it can be something that nearly knocks your socks off but in every conversion, God reveals Himself to the person accepting Him. Everyone’s journey to salvation is difference and I can see why you would be interested in hearing these but why would you think I would come up with a different reason as to why people convert from Christianity to other religions? That topic was never mentioned and it appears you are striking out with several irrelevant sarcastic remarks out of hurt. Like I said, I apologize for misunderstanding your question.

As for what I would say to somebody who believes God is speaking to them through an opposing religion? Duffstuff, it is difficult enough to keep my life on the right path, it is not my places to tell someone they have or haven’t heard from God, but if it does not line up with scripture then I would have to question it’s truthfulness. If someone said God told them to kill someone I would have to say, that is not from God because it does not follow the teachings of God. As to your statement “if you only have to prove God exist to yourself than you can’t say Muslims are wrong because they believe in their God…” You are absolutely true. They believe in THEIR God but that doesn’t mean that it is the same God as Almighty God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yes you have to question everything in order to get to the answer and I have….that is why I am certain that my God is Lord. Is it possible that you cannot be absolutely 100% certain He exist, because maybe you have not had a personal experience with Him where you surrender your all and make Him Lord? My prayer for you, and I hope yours as well, will be to continue to pray and ask Christ to place someone in your life that will give you the guidance to the answers you are seeking.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/05/13 - 12:11 am
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What are you talking about

What are you talking about lashing out? I'm not lashing out at anybody. And when I ask people questions like how has God revealed himself to you, I'm asking a specific question? And no one can really answer some of the questions I'm addressing and thats the point. I choose to have faith but that doesn't mean I'm certain. Some things we can never be certain about. These types of conversations are probably better had in person cause there's no way for me to express the full extent of my thoughts or beliefs on here. I've accepted Jesus more times than I can count and the reason I say that is because I'm never sure if it took the previous time. lol Again, what I mean by that is some people talk about the holy spirit like it really is some physical spirit that overwhelms you and I've never really understood that concept. I see it more as a metaphorical thing but that is my experience. And the reason why I mention certain topics is because I want people to address certain issues and understand them. I feel like alot of Christians are ignorant and closed minded in many ways. This doesn't apply to all Christians but if someone can't have an honest and intelligent conversation about certain things than how am I suppose to respect them and take them seriously? I won't disrespect anyone's faith but when they start saying things that clearly ignore reality thats when I have a problem and I check out because that person is clearly not willing to engage in a real conversation. I'm not saying you are one of these people but I'm just telling you this is my problem with certain people. Just make sure you listen to others and you respect their point of view. Even Christians don't agree on every detail of how to interpret certain aspects of belief or the Bible, so make sure you're not being overly judgmental. We all have a story so make sure you're looking to understand and respect people and not to try and tell them what they need to believe or how to believe it. No offense but you come off as really preachy. I believe what I believe. So do you. (Which isn't all that different mind you) So lets just be willing to have an honest conversation and and not turn every topic into an opportunity to stand on the soap box. I mean no offense, but this is my perception. Why can't two people just talk about philosophy without it turning into a sermon. lol

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/05/13 - 08:53 am
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Duff I truly am sorry you

Duff I truly am sorry you take my words as being "preachy" but I have no other way to express what I believe, why I believe it, and how I believe that there is a God... As for "lashing out", can you honestly say that in your comment there were a few statements that seemed a little on the sarcastic side. Maybe we are having an issue with communicating due to the difference in our age and maturity. I suppose I took offense to your insinuation that I was a liar by your statement "So its somewhat disingenuous, in my opinion, to say you know something which cannot be known. You can say you have faith all day long and thats fine, but as soon as you say you know you're making a false statement because you don't really know."

So you are now going to tell me that what I know, I don't really know. No, you are correct, I don't have proof so that YOU know, but in my heart and soul, I do know that there is God who made this world, God who loves me and died for me, God who is my Savior. If that comes across as "preachy" to you, I owe no apologies. It is what it is.

I read a statement somewhere that said If we cannot be certain that God exists, then faith in God is just a matter of guesswork or personal preference. Then we are only one step away from agnosticism. The definiton of agnosticism is "Agnosticism is the belief that the existence or non-existence of any deity is unknown and possibly unknowable"

Romans 1:18-21 speaks about God revealing Himself to us. I have no issue with people having doubt, so long as they never give up seeking Him. As I said, my prayer is that God will place someone in your life that can answer these questions. Continue to search through His Word and as Christ said, If you seek Him with your heart, you will find Him.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/05/13 - 11:40 am
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thoughts cont...

What did I say that was so sarcastic? And sometimes sarcasm is a way of getting a point across. Kinda like how a political satirist does with cartoons. Sorry if you think I'm sarcastic but I try to be relatively respectful. And its not like you don't come across as condescending yourself sometimes. Quite frankly I think I hold my tongue pretty well when it comes to being respectful. lol
And I don't understand how you can take offense to something that just is a simple statement of factual reality? Faith is believing that which cannot be known for certain. I respect and support your faith but don't tell me you know. I do think people lie to themselves a little bit when they say they know. Some people know there are alien UFO's and other people know the Muslim God is the true God. There's someone, somewhere right now that is having your exact same thought but in conjunction with an opposing belief system. Knowledge isn't intrinsic, faith is intrinsic. If you say you know for certain than it doesn't require faith. So you're basically saying you don't need faith because you simply know! Like I know I am alive today and that today is tuesday. I don't need faith for that, but I do need faith to believe I will be alive next tuesday. I have confident faith that I will, but I don't know. Thats the difference between faith and fact. Fact requires no faith and the two are opposing ideas.

And technically we are all somewhat agnostic if you're simply referring to the fact that we can't know for sure. However being a practicing christian is still different from being agnostic. Agnosticism displays no active faith in anything else other than a questioning doubt, so you can admit you don't know for certain and still be a person of faith. Just because you feel certain doesn't mean you're right. It doesn't mean you're wrong either, but as I mentioned above: There are other people that feel just as right as you who believe different things. The real test of objectivity is being able to admit that you can't be certain and that there is always a chance at being wrong.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/05/13 - 12:57 pm
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Well Duffstuff, all I can say

Well Duffstuff, all I can say to you is I hope you find what you are seeking and I would appreciate it if you could post some condescending statements I have made. Condescending is 1.Acting in a way that betrays a feeling of patronizing superiority. I fail to see where any of my post to you has in any way projected a feeling of superiority towards you. I believe I have been very polite and attempted to explain my position without having to use sarcasm to get my point across as you seem to think is necessary. It is because of my faith in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit that I believe and it is only your OPINION based on your own logically thinking that you determine that I can not know for sure God exist. His Word tells us differently.

In 1 Corinthians 21:1-10, Paul speaks about our reliance on the Holy Spirit. Verse 5, "so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God. "

Duff, my faith rest not on the wisdom or logic of you, me, my pastor, my parents, no one, but it rest in the power of God, through the Holy Spirit, who I KNOW because He lives in me, reveals Himself to me daily, guides me daily (although I don't always obey), and you can state that we can never know for sure and I'm stating, yes you can. You just have to seek the truth.

I'm not here to debate you, you believe what you wish. I have already found the truth and that's not being sarcastic, "preachy", or condescending. That's my factual reality.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11: 1(NKJV)

The EVIDENCE of things not seen....it is because of my Faith in Christ that I believe and have evidence that He exist.

duffstuff
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duffstuff 02/05/13 - 05:12 pm
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Well you're obviously not

Well you're obviously not willing to have a truly honest conversation about the difference between faith and fact. And I'm not trying to debate as much as I'm saying lets at least acknowledge certain things in reality. Lots of people of different faiths feel like they know the truth. At least acknowledge this as a fact of reality. And even in the bible's definition of faith it uses the words "hope" and "unseen." Why is it so hard to say you have faith but you can't admit there is a certain uncertainty that comes with faith. Having faith that you will go to heaven when you die is different from knowing that you will go to heaven when you die. If you know with absolute certainty then you don't need faith. Why is it so hard to see the difference? I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but that's just how it is plain and simple!

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/05/13 - 05:49 pm
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LOL, so if I don't agree with

LOL, so if I don't agree with you then I'm not being honest. We will have to agree to disagree. I know what I know because of the promises of God and what His Word says.

Hebrews 11:6 "And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."

This is the difference where doubt is concerned. If you believe that God exist then you have no doubt and your faith is strong and you draw near to God. If you have doubts then your belief is in question and you can not draw near to God so that your faith can be strong. It's all a matter on what type of relationship you have with Christ. Is it a close one or are there barriers making it distant?

Jeremiah 29:13 "You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. "

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/05/13 - 06:12 pm
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Duff, something just came to

Duff, something just came to me and I believe possibly your issue isn't so much doubting that God is real or that He exist, but possibly doubt concerning your salvation. We all have doubts as to whether we are saved, that is just Satan using his deception to weaken our faith.

The definition of believe is 1.Accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of. I believe and know that God exists. I see evidence of Him every day. Do I have doubts concerning my salvation, you bet. I am a sinner and not worthy of the love and forgiveness God gives me time after time after time. I have faith that He tells me no one can pluck me from His hand and that my salvation is secure but because I know how horrible I am, it's hard to believe that the things I ask for forgiveness are remembered no more by God. But doubts that He exist, NEVER.

So if you have doubts that He exist, then my friend, I'd say get on your knees and do some praying and if you are sincere, He will reveal Himself to you. No, He's not going to pop our of the closet and fly about your room but in the stillness and quietness of your pray, you will feel His presence. So please....stop telling me I can't know He is real. Go seek Him yourself. It's a wonderful experience.

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