Don't allow gay Scouts

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As an Eagle Scout, I strive to live by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. One point in the Oath and two points in the Law seem appropriate to the discussion by the Boy Scouts of America on whether to allow openly homosexual members and/or leaders to participate in Boy Scouts.

The Scout Oath states that a Scout will do his best to keep “morally straight.” Homosexuality is immoral and should not be allowed in Scouting. If moral relativism is allowed in Scouting by letting each local council or troop decide what is morally right, the Scout Oath should state, “I promise to keep myself morally bent.”

The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “brave.” I ask the BSA to take a stand. I am impressed with the courage of the BSA displayed in the past to take a stand on this position. The current discussion on the issue concerns me. It sounds like officials are willing to give up their position to avoid being persecuted. If the BSA takes the weak position that each local council or group can choose what is morally right, then it should change the Scout Law to “a Scout is acquiescent.”

The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “reverent.” Inherent in this point of the Scout Law is the idea that we are under the authority of God and God’s law. To agree that it is OK for each local council or troop to ignore God and His law would be the height of irreverence. While they are at it, go ahead and change the Scout Law to “a scout is indifferent.”

I challenge the BSA to do the right thing and not allow any part of the homosexual agenda in this great institution.

Tod Densmore

Augusta

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Fundamental_Arminian
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Fundamental_Arminian 02/03/13 - 05:02 pm
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Morality is relative; sin and righteousness aren't

    I challenge the BSA to do the right thing and not allow any part of the homosexual agenda in this great institution (Tod Densmore).

While I thank Mr. Densmore for speaking out as he has done, I wish he had mentioned sin, righteousness, and judgment instead of right, wrong, and morality. Mores and norms vary from culture to culture, as I recall hearing from my sociology professor decades ago. Morals differ from one country to the next and even from one organization to the next. Evidently the mores and norms of the BSA aren't what they used to be.

God's laws, however, are absolute and beyond mankind's ability to tamper with. So Mr. Densmore's letter would've been much stronger if it had mentioned sin, righteousness, and judgment. Clearly the BSA has departed from many of the biblical principles that influenced its original code of conduct. No doubt Christian parents can and should find better organizations for their children to participate in.

dahreese
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 05:03 pm
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@Bizkit

Unpublished

"After all life is short, and eternity is forever! I'm not suggesting anyone kill their kids. (Please don't) I'm just saying I'd rather die young and go to heaven than die old and go to hell. "

Do you know why people live on the edge of heaven and hell?

Because that's where the action is.

Without the challenge of going to hell, there's nothing worth "God's" saving.

Think about it.

God is interested in those who are fully human, not some hum drum wanna be, but too scared to be.

Jesus even told Judas to go and do what he was put here to do.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"you seem to be misinformed the Dead Sea Scrolls date to 400 BC with Old Testament,"

Neither the Dead Sea Scrolls nor the Old or New Testaments have anything to do with the space of 400 years between them.

The 400 years was "silence", period.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 05:16 pm
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Well I wager this move by the

Well I wager this move by the Scouts because of declining rolls will be the death knell of the scouts. Homosexuals are a small minority in the US and even those who accept them may have issue with the scouts when it comes to their kid. Parents often lose objectivity and logic in regards to their kids.

Willow Bailey
20240
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Willow Bailey 02/03/13 - 05:17 pm
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As usual, excellent comment,

As usual, excellent comment, ICL

duffstuff
722
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 05:59 pm
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Something to ponder

God obviously created us with intention to be strait ideally, but his ideal was also to create a perfect man and a perfect woman. There are all sorts of sexually ambiguous conditions. Hermaphroditism is the most well know of those. Do we believe it was Gods ideal to create this person this way? I think probably not, but we live in an imperfect physical world. Most gay people I've talked to say that if they could have chosen to be strait they would have. We get so focused on the physical act that we forget about the fact that all these people want is love like the rest of us. I'd say the only people who have the right to judge homosexuals are those who have chosen to live a life of lonesome celibacy. Only then can it truly be understood of what those who judge expect.

I ask my fellow strait people...Could you live a life free of love and physical intimacy? Maybe some of you are married. Would you be able leave your wife and simply be alone the rest of your life in that regard? I would venture to say that you wouldn't be able to do that no matter what the reason. Which means you're expecting out of homosexuals that which you wouldn't be able to do yourself. Keep in mind homosexuals are attracted to the same sex in the same way you are attracted to the opposite sex so the mentality is the same.

Just some thought provoking questions I think everyone should ponder???

dahreese
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 06:33 pm
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3

@Bizkit

Unpublished

"Homosexuals are a small minority in the US and even those who accept them may have issue with the scouts when it comes to their kid. Parents often lose objectivity and logic in regards to their kids."

Really?

By "small minority" what percentage or how many millions do you suppose?

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 06:46 pm
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duffstuff 01:48

Absolutely allowed!

CobaltGeorge
138588
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 06:49 pm
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duffstuff 02:47

If the gay boss conducts his straight actions in front of you, why should you care If you like the work and the pay is good enough for you. What he does after you leave work is his world.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 07:04 pm
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SO REALLY!!!!1.51% of the

SO REALLY!!!!
1.51% of the total U.S. population identifies themselves as gay, lesbian or bisexual, or 4.3 total million Americans. These numbers are based on figures provided by a broad-based coalition of gay rights organizations and homosexual advocacy groups. The primary source cited was the The National Health and Social Life Survey (NHSLS), published in the book The Social Organization of Sex: Sexual Practices in the United States. The US is roughly 13% african-american, 16% hispanic, and 5% Asian. Asians are discriminated against more than homosexuals, hispanice, or african americans- and all I here is silencd.

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 07:00 pm
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duffstuff 02:27

I never said I don't like homosexuality, I just don't approve of it. As long homosexuality does not affect me or any member of my family, why should I dislike gays. They are part of the human race and they are free to do as they like. I don't care if they fell in love with a cow and made love to it on Broad street.

To hate would be stereotyping, to disapprove would be to Ignore.

CobaltGeorge
138588
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 07:12 pm
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3

I'm Going To Tell You My First Experience With a Gay.

Back in 1955 this 17 year old, upstate NY farm boy was on his way to boot camp. Had to change buses in Albany NY. Went to the men's room and stood before an urinal. This individual parked himself in the next urinal from me and said, "can I hold yours, you can hold mine".
All I know at this point is, if they have not remodeled that restroom, some of his teeth are still in the urinal trap.

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 07:16 pm
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ICL 02:57

You have covered my feelings on the topic 100%. Thank You.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 08:25 pm
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I noted GiantsAllDay comment

I noted GiantsAllDay comment about hate filled homophobes. The only thing worse is the hate filled christian haters. Seems a bit hypocritical to castigate one group for hate all the while being a hater. But fortunately in America we all have the right to hate whoever we like-at least for now.

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 10:05 pm
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With only 4 million

With only 4 million homosexuals what are the odds one would even want to join the boyscouts. It isn't like the 150 million gun owners concerned they may lose their freedom to bear arms. For that matter gay marriage seems like a minor issue too in the big picture of things-statistically a drop in the bucket.

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 02/03/13 - 10:54 pm
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Question

If you are a homosexual and you know that a club does not want to have homosexual members, why would you want to join that club?

Darby
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Darby 02/03/13 - 11:00 pm
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"You might as well assume.....

...that all straight teachers are going to abuse straight kids."

Why would I assume that? We're talking SEXUAL abuse here. Maybe you don't know what that is?? That would be a little difficult to understand.

You don't have homosexual scout masters for the same reason that you don't have male scout leaders for little girls. Why on earth would a straight scout master SEXUALLY abuse a scout of the same gender?

Homosexual males are attracted to the Boy Scouts for the same reason that so many are attracted to the priesthood. I guess you'll tell me next that there is no problem there either.

Tell me that doesn't make sense to you dahreese.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/03/13 - 11:21 pm
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(Comment by dahreese 02/03/13

(Comment by dahreese 02/03/13 - 04:03 pm)
@Bizkit

"After all life is short, and eternity is forever! I'm not suggesting anyone kill their kids. (Please don't) I'm just saying I'd rather die young and go to heaven than die old and go to hell. "

dahreese, I believe "duffstuff" should be credited for making this statement not Bizkit. Just trying to keep the conversation correct.

Bizkit
21868
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Bizkit 02/04/13 - 12:13 am
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Thanks ICL. I know you are

Thanks ICL. I know you are completely sold on Christ. You remind me of Paul-a bulldog in your faith-unequivocal. That is a compliment. I am sure some of my comments may give you moments to pause at times. But I am completely sold on Christ too. I struggle with with politics and govt(Caesar) so I prefer to try to change hearts personally than try to change the govt (which I gave up on). I figure if we can change hearts then things may work out.

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 02/04/13 - 01:08 am
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Glad to see the majority of

Glad to see the majority of posters (not necessarily posts) have there logic (vs emotion) programs loaded.

Scouts need to exclude pedophiles. That does not necessarily include homosexuals.

Bruno
780
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Bruno 02/05/13 - 11:15 am
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Interestingly

Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. In fact his teachings all centered on loving each other.
If you are going to quote and take the scriptures literally then Lev. 20:13 requires you to put them to death. Are you willing to kill them based on one old testament passage? If not then you are living your espoused religion by half measures.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 02/05/13 - 03:05 pm
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Bruno, as you stated we must

Bruno, as you stated we must not take scripture half measured. Although it is true that in the Old Testament under the Mosaic Laws the punishment for such a sin was death. Because of the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ we do not live under the old judical punishment of the Mosaic Laws. We live under the New Covenant which states that sexual immorality is still a sin against righteousness but thank s be to God, our judical punishment has already been served and our death is no longer required. He paid the price.

Since the bible is the inspired Word of God and was written by His apostles or those close to them (such as Mark) who received that inspiration, the Word is from God. In order to not espoused His Word by half measures, we must take the New Testament as well as the Old. The New Covenant fullfilled the Old Covenant. So, yes he had plenty to say about sexual immorality which includes a lot of immoral behavior, including homosexuality.

T.More
178
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T.More 02/05/13 - 04:04 pm
2
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Objectivity

Sounds like emotions, religion and personal experience are the catalyst for most of these comments, which never lend themselves to objectivity. Let me first say, I do not think this was a particularly well-written piece, but every one has a right to voice their opinion. Let us look at it without religion, an objective scientific look at allowing gays in Scouting (since after all we are discussing Boy Scouts).

The population statistics provided by a prior poster and easily found online, places homosexuals in the very small minority of the population in the country, no matter what every sitcom and television show wants you to believe by having at least one token gay and/or lesbian person on the show. They are represented disproportionately when it comes to sexually transmitted diseases.

When the World Health Organization and the Center for Disease Control look at behaviors by humans in considering epidemics, the first one that pops up on the list is man on man sex. Look at the HIV differences in studies between male on female sex vs. male on male sex. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/testing/resources/reports/hiv_prevalence/h....

So the argument is not only a moral/religious one, but is one of cleanliness backed up by the science. If this is not enough, please tell me why the Red Cross will not accept donations from a male who has had sex with another male in the last six months. Is this discrimination? No. Simply put, this is objective medical data. There is no refuting it. Other at risk people groups included prostitutes and intravenous drug users to name a few. I am sure these would not be welcomed guests around a campfire with 11-17 year old boys, so why the exception with gays? Instead of the moral argument, which undoubtedly draws in arguments of intolerance and religious fanaticism, just stick to the science/medicine. Argue that a Scout is Clean.

Bonus Comment: By the way the instances of gays at parades and elsewhere behaving in a militant fashion towards those of faith, churches, even old prayerful woman undermines the argument that this is a tolerant people group with no agenda. These are not isolated incidents and are growing more frequent. They are rarely reported, except on the Internet. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/san-francisco-catholic-church-attacked-p...

T.More
178
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T.More 02/05/13 - 04:19 pm
1
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Objectivity (Take 2 without Links)

See above. Also research search engines for woman with cross attacked by gay demonstrators, etc.

Bruno
780
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Bruno 02/06/13 - 09:00 pm
0
1

I'll see your one woman

I'll see your one woman attacked by gay demonstrators and raise you numerous crimes, bullying and bigotry against homosexuals.
Holier than though bigots need to look first to their own lives before they chime in on who another person can love. I have very little tolerance for bigots who wrap themselves in scripture in a vain attempt to disguise their ignorance and hatred.

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