Don't allow gay Scouts

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As an Eagle Scout, I strive to live by the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. One point in the Oath and two points in the Law seem appropriate to the discussion by the Boy Scouts of America on whether to allow openly homosexual members and/or leaders to participate in Boy Scouts.

The Scout Oath states that a Scout will do his best to keep “morally straight.” Homosexuality is immoral and should not be allowed in Scouting. If moral relativism is allowed in Scouting by letting each local council or troop decide what is morally right, the Scout Oath should state, “I promise to keep myself morally bent.”

The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “brave.” I ask the BSA to take a stand. I am impressed with the courage of the BSA displayed in the past to take a stand on this position. The current discussion on the issue concerns me. It sounds like officials are willing to give up their position to avoid being persecuted. If the BSA takes the weak position that each local council or group can choose what is morally right, then it should change the Scout Law to “a Scout is acquiescent.”

The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “reverent.” Inherent in this point of the Scout Law is the idea that we are under the authority of God and God’s law. To agree that it is OK for each local council or troop to ignore God and His law would be the height of irreverence. While they are at it, go ahead and change the Scout Law to “a scout is indifferent.”

I challenge the BSA to do the right thing and not allow any part of the homosexual agenda in this great institution.

Tod Densmore

Augusta

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jhstyles1985
18
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jhstyles1985 02/03/13 - 07:19 am
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"The Scout Oath states that a

"The Scout Oath states that a Scout will do his best to keep “morally straight.” Homosexuality is immoral and should not be allowed in Scouting. If moral relativism is allowed in Scouting by letting each local council or troop decide what is morally right, the Scout Oath should state, “I promise to keep myself morally bent.”

-According to whom? The BSA allow Wiccan's, Reform Jews, Unitarians, Quakers, Episcopal, Liberal Christians, Buddhist's and Hindu's to be part of their organization. All the faiths I mentioned accept homosexuality as moral. And moral relativism is already allowed in scouting. That Wiccan is pray to "Mother Earth" that sure seems relative to "Thou shall not have any other God's before me."

"The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “brave.” I ask the BSA to take a stand."
-Yes, please take a stand BSA and do not let non-sequitors, malformed logic, and malice shape your opinions. Take a stand any allow for individual groups to practice the religions you have accepted.

" If the BSA takes the weak position that each local council or group can choose what is morally right, then it should change the Scout Law to “a Scout is acquiescent.”

-Prove to a near scientific certainty that your specific God is correct. Please make sure the test is both reliable and valid, submit to the Noble committee for review.

"The Scout Law declares that a Scout is “reverent.” Inherent in this point of the Scout Law is the idea that we are under the authority of God and God’s law. To agree that it is OK for each local council or troop to ignore God and His law would be the height of irreverence."
-They are allowing each troop to be reverent to the philosophical and religious beliefs that deal with homosexuality. If you want to everyone to accept God's Law please provide affirmative scientific evidence with near certainty that your specific God exists.

Techfan
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Techfan 02/03/13 - 08:06 am
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I see no reason why it would

I see no reason why it would matter. I spent quite a few years in scouting and the numbers of sexual entounters I witnessed was zero. As to "reverent". I would say that the term has more to do with respect than religion. Alabama fans may be reverent as they visit the Paul W. Bryant Museum. I'm reverent every time I visit the National POW Museum in Andersonville. There's no religion involved in either case. Brave: It would be much braver to take a stand for what is right and allow gays as members and leaders. It's obvious that they'll receive much more persecution from the homophobes if they alter the status quo.

Gary Ross
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Gary Ross 02/03/13 - 09:54 am
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Amen Tod Densmore!

As a former Scoutmaster of two different Troops over a 12 year period, I am honored to read such a well written article that apparently comes from your heart. I wish more Eagle Scouts would be brave enough to stand up for the moral values they learned, and for the safe organization that brought them the wonderful childhood memories that they carry today.

Everyone can see the crumbling society we live in today. The ultra-liberal values are creeping their way in to our national fabric like pine beetles in a pine forest. Scouting is one of the last safe havens, where young men (who are naturally very impressionable) can still be free spirited in a morally right way. The Scouting organization needs to be defended against this, and I wish more Scouts and Scouters would stand up as you did! For your own future sons and grandsons!

ymnbde
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ymnbde 02/03/13 - 10:27 am
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1
asking

a scout leader to not openly display his homosexuality is like asking a government school teacher not to openly display her Christianity...

burklarr
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burklarr 02/03/13 - 11:18 am
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No Gay Scouts - too late - there alreay are!

While I respect Mr Densmore's right to have and express his opinion, it is clearly one that is totally disconnected from reality. Does Mr D. think that there are not or there have never been gay scouts? I would bet that some of this "morally straight" scouting colleagues may not be so straight. He just doesnt know it because the BSA policy has required them to lie about who they really are and the society that Mr D. lives in may also have forced them to marry, have children, and live a "morally straight" lie and deny who they really are. And does Mr D. hope that continuing this "no gay" policy wont ostracize gay children and young adults even more? How is continuing this policy in any way moral? The BSA should do the morally right thing and recognize and welcome all families - encourage tolerance - isnt that a moral thing to do?

I would encourage gay scouts to come out to your BSA colleagues and live an honest and open life - to show everyone that respect and tolerance are attributes that the BSA should encourage.

faithson
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faithson 02/03/13 - 11:26 am
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so much righteousness

One's belief that homosexuality is a 'choice' sits at the crux of this discussion. Having personally known many good men and women who's sexual proclivities are different than mine, I speak from experience, not some off the pulpit belief. These people whom so many have declared, 'immoral' are just that PEOPLE, not vermin to be shunned. 'There is never conflict between true knowledge and truth. There may be conflict between knowledge and human beliefs, beliefs colored with prejudice, distorted by fear, and dominated by the dread of facing new facts of material discovery or spiritual progress.' UB Work through the conflict people, less your laziness result in a self-absorbed righteousness that our Lord found in the pharisees and Sadducees.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 02/03/13 - 11:44 am
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I feel sorry for Mr.

I feel sorry for Mr. Densmore, I really do. Due to advanced communication technology, his LTE will be accessible for reading FOREVER. in 20-30 years his kids and grand kids will probably be reading this and think of their embarrassment! I mean, what if the chronicle made available all the racist LTE's written in 1860? 1940? 1950? 1964? Think about their embarrassed decendents. This LTE is no different than a racist LTE written back in the day. Whenever I see one of those "It Gets Better" videos, I think about people like Densmore and wonder "does it really"? But then I am encouraged by some of the thoughtful comments that preceded mine. Baby steps, Augusta and Chronicle Readers. You're growing up, but slowly.

burklarr
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burklarr 02/03/13 - 12:03 pm
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BS of AMERICA?

While I respect Mr. D's right to have his opinion and express it, I feel it necessary to point out that he must live in an alternate reality of what America is today - it seems he wants to have a Boy Scouts of People That Look Like Him, Act Like Him, Go to the Same Church as Him, etc. What he wants is clearly NOT the Boy Scouts of the Real America. Does Mr. D really think there are not gay boy scouts? Does Mr. D not know the harm that marginalizing gays and lesbian does to gay and lesbian children as well as affect other developing young minds? "Morally straight" should be interpreted as morally right and that means respect and acceptance for the betterment of our children - all of our children gay and straight, of any religion, background, race, etc.

Does Mr D really think he doesnt know any gay boy scouts? I am sure that he has gay colleagues - perhaps some that, because they think they have to be "morally straight," they must live a lie....perhaps marrying and having children but forced to hide the fact they are gay because they wont be accepted. Is that "morally straight"? Is this what the BSA really wants?

I agree the BSA should take a position - but it should be the right position to accept gays and lesbians.

dahreese
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 12:35 pm
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As the father of five
Unpublished

As the father of five children, two of whom are homosexual, you anti-homosexual folks don't know what you're talking about.

Not a one of you before you were born had a choice of your skin color, being male or female, being born in this country or another culture, nor of being "straight" or "homosexual."

You have never "consciously" "decided" whether you "want" to be straight or whether you "want" to "be" homosexual.

You "are" who you "are" and you couldn't change it even if you wanted to.

The same applies for homosexuals.

They "are" who they "are" and they couldn't change that even if they wanted to.

There are more homosexuals than you ever dreamed of; and contributing to the betterment of this country and this world.

Homosexuals may be found in every culture.

Alas, the idea that homosexuals must be killed and persecuted in other countries also has an ugly face in this country.

And, please, don't anyone give me this business of "the bible says" according to Paul.

Paul put on his pants just like any other human being and was expressing "his" own opinion (not God's) against homosexuals.

I have great respect for what the Boy Scouts have contributed to the growth of young men, but some of you Scouts still need to grow up.

grouse
1635
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grouse 02/03/13 - 12:47 pm
0
1
There is something a little
Unpublished

There is something a little dichotomous about a teen-aged boy still dressing up in a pretend uniform cavorting in the woods with other boys while calling others "gay."

GiantsAllDay
9585
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GiantsAllDay 02/03/13 - 01:14 pm
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7
If Densmore ever moved to

If Densmore ever moved to Jackson, TN he could be friends with Elton the dog's former owner
http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/blogs/bostonspirit/2013/02/elton_the_gay...

smartasugarsugar
139
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smartasugarsugar 02/03/13 - 01:16 pm
4
4
gay boy scouts

i don't really think its a scout or leader being gay that is the issue it's the lack of self control that is the real issue. i don't really care what you do behind closed doors. what i care about is my child's safety and innocents. sorry but everyone eventually hears the story from a friend that got "played with" during a camping outing in the boy scouts. and how many lesbian coaches later on leave their position because of suspected inappropriate behavior with a child. sorry if your gay or lesbian and offended but there are too many instance of this behavior popping up. if your [filtered word] off about it then welcome to the club. male teachers who are straight have the same issue they can't do this or that because if someone was to say something your gonna go down. so we have to error on the side of caution. deal with it. sorry no mature male or female's are allowed in a position that might endanger the kiddies.

Darby
25614
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Darby 02/03/13 - 01:29 pm
5
5
"They "are" who they "are" and they.....

....couldn't change that even if they wanted to."

Glad to know you feel that way. It's true! Homosexual scout leaders are who they are and can't change. For that reason, they can't keep their hands to themselves when confronted with all that temptation out there in the boonies with all those young kids.

Unless we are to integrate boy and girl scouts, why would we blur the lines between gay and straight kids?

Many kids of that age are already confused enough about sex. Is that the time to compound the problem?

Just asking....

jhstyles1985
18
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jhstyles1985 02/03/13 - 01:33 pm
4
4
"i don't really think its a

"i don't really think its a scout or leader being gay that is the issue it's the lack of self control that is the real issue. i don't really care what you do behind closed doors. what i care about is my child's safety and innocents. sorry but everyone eventually hears the story from a friend that got "played with" during a camping outing in the boy scouts. and how many lesbian coaches later on leave their position because of suspected inappropriate behavior with a child. sorry if your gay or lesbian and offended but there are too many instance of this behavior popping up. if your [filtered word] off about it then welcome to the club. male teachers who are straight have the same issue they can't do this or that because if someone was to say something your gonna go down. so we have to error on the side of caution. deal with it. sorry no mature male or female's are allowed in a position that might endanger the kiddies."

Agreed, we must segregate all school classes by gender. No longer will a woman be allowed to teach in a mixed gender classroom. Women, who have passed the test for lesbianity, will only be able to teach female students, who have also passed the test for lesbianity. The same thing goes for the males. A gay test for the teachers and the students and they are placed with their same gender.

Willow Bailey
20580
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Willow Bailey 02/03/13 - 01:44 pm
4
4
Authored, Authorized & Allowed

First, I want to say Kudos to you dahreese, that you can live honestly about personal matters.

But it's very important that you know there is nothing written in the Bible, The Living Word of God, that is not authored, authorized and allowed by our Holy God.

dahreese
4717
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 01:56 pm
4
5
@Darby
Unpublished

"Many kids of that age are already confused enough about sex. Is that the time to compound the problem?"

jhstyles1985, says above, "i don't really think its a scout or leader being gay that is the issue it's the lack of self control that is the real issue. i don't really care what you do behind closed doors. what i care about is my child's safety and innocents."

It is the safety of a child that is important. What is being "hinted" at on these "concerns", but not explicitly stated, is that child abuse is "more likely" to be committed by homosexual than non-homosexuals.

Since I have both "straight" and "homosexual" children (now all grown) should I have been less concerned about the safety of my straight children than my homosexual children?

As to "confused enough about sex", until society can/will finally say "homosexuality is natural for some people" we will continue to have confusion.

And slowly, but surely, that is happening.

As to, ""Glad to know you feel that way. It's true! Homosexual scout leaders are who they are and can't change. For that reason, they can't keep their hands to themselves when confronted with all that temptation out there in the boonies with all those young kids.", you seem to be asuming that all homosexual scout leaders are going to abuse kids.

You might as well assume that all straight teachers are going to abuse straight kids.

But, could I suppose you don't, or haven't thought about, or aren't concerned about that?

GiantsAllDay
9585
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GiantsAllDay 02/03/13 - 02:00 pm
8
7
It is now 1 PM and the

It is now 1 PM and the baptists are out of church and are leaving Picadilly. I will not comment any further on the LTE. I'm just going to sit back and read the hate filled homophobia that is sure to come. Besides, Debating a christian is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon just knocks over the pieces, craps on the board and struts around like it is winning. 

CobaltGeorge
158552
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CobaltGeorge 02/03/13 - 02:20 pm
2
4
dahreese

Why would anyone want to take a chance for contact....all it takes is ONE.....

dahreese
4717
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 02:23 pm
4
4
@Willow Bailey
Unpublished

"But it's very important that you know there is nothing written in the Bible, The Living Word of God, that is not authored, authorized and allowed by our Holy God."

I do not intend to put you or anyone down by what I'm going to say.

But, alas, when it comes to "The Living Word of God" the Christian Church (and the Jewish Church and Islamic Church as well) does a lousey job of being honest with scriptures.

And since we are more familiary with the Christian faith, I'm going to stick with that. And as a disclosure, I once earned a part of my living in the Christian church and was once married to a seminary trainned, Presbyterian ordained, female minister.

So, I know just a little bit about the Church and "God's Living Word."

"God's Living Word" didn't exist until the 4th century. The "books" that are found in the Old Testament are a history of Jewish faith, not of Christian faith. Then there is the 400 years of "God's silence" between it and the New Testament.

Of the New Testament, the letters of Paul were written before the gospels. Nor are all of the letters of Paul contained therein. Paul's letter to Thytira, for example.

Biblical scholars now agree that some of the "letters of Paul" were not written by Paul. There are important questions as to who wrote the gospel of John and who wrote the book of Revelation.

The "church fathers" themselves (in 312) argues over which books should be included in the "bible" and which books should be left out.

Paul's views, about homosexual, about the place of women in the church and home, are Paul's views. Allegedly Paul thought people shouldn't get married, but look where we'd be if we followed Paul's advice.

Please give me a little credit.

The position of the Church regarding scripture and the way it does not train its believers to "know" better, is blasphemous.

And you ought to see the "honest" ones squirm when I call them on it.

That said, I support the good will of the Christian church and whether its doctrines are wholly true or not, it's music is second to none.

dahreese
4717
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dahreese 02/03/13 - 02:28 pm
6
4
@CobaltGeorge
Unpublished

"Why would anyone want to take a chance for contact....all it takes is ONE....."

ONE homosexual, but not ONE straight?

If we are going to live in that kind of fear, why even have children?

And if we love them that much, rather than let them grow up and run the risk of hell, why don't we just slit their throats at birth and send them straight to heaven?

duffstuff
722
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 02:48 pm
3
3
who's good enough?

Here's a question...If someone is openly gay, should they be allowed in church? And btw I'm not talking about them making out in church or causing an obvious disruption. I'm asking should they simply be allowed to take willing part in the congregation?

And if not should we form a committee and decide who's sins are allowed in, and who deserves to be ostracized?

duffstuff
722
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 06:10 pm
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3
Interesting point...

you raise an interesting philosophical question dahreese. The world is a gray and confusing place. Kids are apparently seen as innocent in the eyes of God so why allow them to grow up and potentially become confused by the world. Why let them receive any information that would allow them to question their faith? If I thought my beliefs would send me to hell than I would have urged my parents to kill me in order to avoid such a thing. After all life is short, and eternity is forever! I'm not suggesting anyone kill their kids. (Please don't) I'm just saying I'd rather die young and go to heaven than die old and go to hell. After all we are a product of our environment. My choice to be christian as an adult becomes diminished if my parents or community are atheist or muslim or any other belief for that matter. And that doesn't even include the people who have actually tried to believe in God but simply can't find a logical reason to. Why should they go to hell when they feel the information they have acquired in their life leads them to the belief that God doesn't exist. Its not like they necessarily want to believe this but that is their disposition and its hard to believe in something you just don't. In fact to do so would just be lying to yourself and its almost impossible to lie to yourself.

duffstuff
722
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duffstuff 02/03/13 - 03:27 pm
1
3
Say No to Gay Bosses!!!

I also want to comment on this little nugget that was posted above...

"I can't believe that any loving parent who tries to raise their children in a moral and decent way would allow there son to join the BS knowing that the leader was a homosexual. Those that support this way of life...one word....SICK!"

Ok I get that you don't like homosexuality, but lets pose a scenario. You say that parents should not allow their child to have a gay scout leader because its indecent or immoral or whatever?

So does this mean as an adult I shouldn't work for a boss who is gay? Obviously this person would support gay rights. Lets say this boss gives money every year to gay causes. Therefore by working for his/her company you help support gay rights yourself. Would you quit your job if your boss was gay? Should all strait people take a stand and refuse to work for gay bosses from now on?

This is a rhetorical question btw cause that would be stupid and discriminatory!

Bizkit
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 03:33 pm
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2
Dahreese you seem to be

Dahreese you seem to be misinformed the Dead Sea Scrolls date to 400 BC with Old Testament, then parts of John and several other books have been found dated to the first century. Keep talkin' crap. The truth will set you free. Everyone is welcome in the church-no sin is unforgiveable (cept maybe blaspheming the Holy Spirit-but I understand that no longer applies). However you have to admit it is sin and repent to be forgiven. So sinners are like ex-alchoholics-they are still sinners (alchoholics) but covered by the blood of the lamb. Christians are like anyone else liars, murderers, thieves, homosexuals, adulterers, etc-Just Forgiven, then changed by the Holy Spirit. I have one friend caught with child porno and two homosexual friends who are christian and no longer practice their sexual preference-they believe it is a sin and they choice not to practice their natural attraction. But alcholics make the same choice-they are still alcoholics just alcoholics who don't drink. Sadly sinners still sin but that is why they need Christ.

Bizkit
31329
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 03:41 pm
4
2
I have homosexual and lesbian

I have homosexual and lesbian friends and family, and had a homosexual boss-that doesn't define them as human beings. Way too much interest in such nonsense if you ask me. Homosexuals aren't child molesters. If the Scouts want to allow them-well now it is still a free country. Just no pedophiles should be allowed for sure-no brainer.

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 02/03/13 - 03:57 pm
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5
"If someone is openly gay,

"If someone is openly gay, should they be allowed in church? " By all means, yes they should. Should they be leaders of the church or service in leadership capacity? Definitely not.

The doors of the Church welcome sinners of all sorts but welcoming them into the congregation is not the same as approval. I do not understand why people have such a hard time with this.

We have all sinned. It's a matter of what you do about that sin. For those who say homosexual behavior is not a sin.....I bed to differ. According to the teachings of Christ any sexual intimacy outside the bonds of marriage is a sin. Marriage is clearly defined in scripture as being between a husband and a wife. If Christ approved of two men marrying or two women marrying, why were the emphases place on a husband leaving his parents and clinging to his wife and the two be as one?

I believe the issue with gay scout leaders has more to do with what will be taught to young impressionable minds about what is acceptable as moral sexual conduct and although there are those who believe that gays should be aloud to marry, they may not totally agree that sex between two individuals of the same gender is morally right and not willing to take a stand. It's easier to just go along with the crowd because your own moral standards are not based on biblical teaching.

If I believe theft is wrong, would I agree to hire a thief to watch over my finances? if I believe that rape is wrong would I put a rapist in charge of my daughter's ballet class? If someone has an issue with anger and road rage, do you have them teach a safety driving class? If I believe it is wrong to have a child out of wedlock, do I place a young mother who has several children by different fathers, in charge of a class teaching young girls sex education class? If I believe homosexual conduct is wrong, would I place a homosexual in charge of teaching my son what is proper moral conduct.

It's not who or what they are, it's the moral guidelines they stand for, which at one time went against the moral guidelines the BSA stood by. Sadly, I believe the BSA is becoming just like the worlds guidelines instead of the biblical guidelines they onces stood for.

Bizkit
31329
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 03:57 pm
2
1
The Scouts have a right to

The Scouts have a right to allow gays but as a parent you have a right not to allow your child to participate too if you find that morally offensive. Myself I would encourage my kids to join and witness to homosexuals so that they may find Christ too. The Truth and Good News is for everyone.

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 02/03/13 - 04:03 pm
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Bizkit, I would agree on

Bizkit, I would agree on encouraging your kids to witness to homosexuals so they may find Christ but only after they have studied the word and have matured in their faith. I would be hesitant to have my child condemned, ridiculed, pursecuted, and demeaned by the likes of some on here. As adults we understand human character (have thicker skin so to speak) but young minds, although they have a heart for God can easily be confused as to why not everyone believes God's Word.

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 02/03/13 - 04:13 pm
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3
Glad to see my TSD are still

Glad to see my TSD are still active.....too bad they can only voice their disagreement with a thumbs down and do not have the fortitude to participate in an adult discussion on the subject.

Bizkit
31329
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Bizkit 02/03/13 - 04:14 pm
2
1
Yeah that is a good point

Yeah that is a good point ICL. Children are still developing their morality. I guess I was thinking more because mine are grown and have a solid faith. But that could have been negatively influenced too by secular humanism.

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