Gun argument misses mark

  • Follow Letters

This letter is to correct the one Jan. 6 by Thomas J. Zwemer (“How to regulate?”). His quoting of the Second Amendment to the Constitution was incomplete and his explanation wrong.

The Second Amendment states: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

When the Framers of the Constitution were debating the Second Amendment to the Constitution, they were looking to the governments of the past and the possibility of ones in the future. History had taught them that unarmed societies are subjects, susceptible to tyranny and not free. The reference to militia has nothing to do with a National Guard. The National Guard is a government organization created in 1903. The militia in the times of the Framers referred to organized citizens to defend the state or their communities against invaders. Also they saw the need for the people to have the ability to remain armed as a protection against a future tyrannical government. They feared this because of the histories of past governments.

As the late publisher John Basil Barnhill said, “Where the people fear the government, you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people, you have liberty.”

The question to society now is not whether to blame guns and regulate them more, but whether to enforce the laws that are already on the books. It also would help if we would start holding people accountable for their actions instead of making excuses for them.

The current administration is so hypocritical when it comes to this issue. The Justice Department under this administration is responsible for the gun-running operation Fast and Furious, which is responsible for placing guns in the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

John Morris

Augusta

Comments (44) Add comment
ADVISORY: Users are solely responsible for opinions they post here and for following agreed-upon rules of civility. Posts and comments do not reflect the views of this site. Posts and comments are automatically checked for inappropriate language, but readers might find some comments offensive or inaccurate. If you believe a comment violates our rules, click the "Flag as offensive" link below the comment.
nofanofobama
6809
Points
nofanofobama 01/14/13 - 07:27 am
11
0
you are absolutely right

you are absolutely right about the 2nd admendment..why are there so many gun laws in the country..approx 20000..??? only law abiding cizitens respect these laws...why not start with taking guns away from criminals..after all by definition they do not respect laws..the only problem i see with this is that our current administration would not have to go far in search of criminals abusing gun rights..but after all its not their real reason for gun control ...now is it!!!

deestafford
26240
Points
deestafford 01/14/13 - 07:42 am
11
0
Also, when the Constitution

Also, when the Constitution speaks of a "well regulated militia" it means a well equipted militia. People need to look at the meaning of words at the time of the drafting of the Constitution. Additionally, militia meant the people not some organized military unit. All able bodied people were the militia.

nofanofobama
6809
Points
nofanofobama 01/14/13 - 08:39 am
10
0
why does the left who

why does the left who believes in a growing document ..the connstitution..who find hidden all kinds hidden meanings in the constitution cannot see a well regulated militia..would mean a militia with current technology..afterall a well regulated militia is to keep us safe and free fron tyranny both foreign and domestic..that is an armed non-govt miltia is essential to our freedom..and yes it does and absolutely includes the domestic tyranny.that our forefathers were afraid of..abuse of the ruling elite..

soapy_725
43672
Points
soapy_725 01/14/13 - 08:54 am
0
0
Marxism 101
Unpublished

Marxism encompasses the following goals:
1. The destruction of the family... separating children from their parents for easier control.
2. The destruction of marriage... separating man from woman.
3. The abolition of religion... separating Man from God.
4. The abolition, or redefinition of morality... separating Man from self-restraint.
5. The abolition of nationality and countries... separating Man from his community.
6. Nationalism, and a devotion to state (government) over individuality or liberty... separating Man from himself.
7. Compulsory state education... to further #1 through #6 above. To separate Man from the truth.
8. The abolition of private property... separating Man from the basis of human happiness, stability, prosperity, advancement, and freedom of contract. The foundation of a free society (see my "Treatise on Natural Order").
9. The abolition of weapons... separating Man from the means to defend himself and hold government to account.
10. The use of heavy taxes... further separating Man from his property, and depriving him of a means to improve his station.
11. A centralized, governmental banking system... a means to attain power and control the masses.
12. Governmental control of communication and transportation... separating Man from his freedom to associate.
13. Governmental control of business... separating Man from his ability to prosper and grow.
14. Redistribution of wealth... "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"... separating Man from his independence.
15. Governmental control of population and society... separating Man from his free will.
16. Positive Law Theory instead of Natural Law Theory... separating Man from his inalienable rights.

When you separate Man from his family, wife, God, self-restraint, community, individualism, liberty, property, ability to defend himself, ability to improve his station, freedom of association, truth, prosperity, growth, independence, free will, and inalienable rights, what has he become?

An automaton that is easily controlled and manipulated, with no will to fight... a slave among slaves.

The Marxism twist (outside of Karl Marx's Utopian philosophy)
Who has absolute power? The government.
Who controls the government? The elite.
Who's back do they ride upon? The people.
Who holds them to account? No one.

That is Marxism...

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 01/14/13 - 09:03 am
1
13
Militia Act 1792

Strange, they seem concerned with putting down an armed rebellion from people not following the laws of the US and not about arming the citizens to resist the government. Of course the founding fathers might not have understood the meaning of the Constitution they wrote and were just looking for hidden meanings.

Section 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion from any foreign nation or Indian tribe, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, to call forth such number of the militia of the state or states most convenient to the place of danger or scene of action as he may judge necessary to repel such invasion, and to issue his orders for that purpose, to such officer or officers of the militia as he shall think proper; and in case of an insurrection in any state, against the government thereof, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, on application of the legislature of such state, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) to call forth such number of the militia of any other state or states, as may be applied for, or as he may judge sufficient to suppress such insurrection.

Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, the same being notified to the President of the United States, by an associate justice or the district judge, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed. And if the militia of a state, where such combinations may happen, shall refuse, or be insufficient to suppress the same, it shall be lawful for the President, if the legislature of the United States be not in session, to call forth and employ such numbers of the militia of any other state or states most convenient thereto, as may be necessary, and the use of militia, so to be called forth, may be continued, if necessary, until the expiration of thirty days after the commencement of the ensuing session.

Jon Lester
2285
Points
Jon Lester 01/14/13 - 09:36 am
0
0
So able men were mandated to have a musket, powder and ammo.

That doesn't mean "militia" is synonymous with the modern National Guard. The Founders were very deliberate with their use of the phrase, "the people."

The Second Militia Act of 1792 may well support the argument that the government can specify which arms we may bear, but we the people still get to petition the government in times like this, at least to the extent that sound reasoning can influence our representatives (which is much more to ask these days than it was 200 years ago).

One more thing: if anyone seriously believes the Second Amendment was somehow not forward-thinking and intended to limit everyone to a the simple muskets of the time, then they should read about the history of the rifled barrel, an American technological innovation that proved advantageous against standard-issue British muskets of the time.

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 01/14/13 - 09:56 am
6
0
Remember the Whiskey

Remember the Whiskey Rebellion when George Washington had to call out the militia against American-Irish Whiskey (Moonshine) produces in Pennsylvania because he levied a tax against their alcohol and they were protesting and upto antics. They all moved to Kentucky after it was quelled.They were protesting "unfair" taxes. Gee remember when we all hated taxes-the brainwashing has been so effective I'm sure most progressives would give their entire income to their demi-god Obama. Of course they only make 50K but they expect 100K in return-everybody wants steak and pay hamburger prices.

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 01/14/13 - 09:58 am
6
0
The SCOTUS has ruled on this.

The SCOTUS has ruled on this. It's a personal right. These folks posting all the gun owner sites are breakiin the law too. Roe vs Wade was about privacy-and it would apply to a womans right to an abortion just like her right to own a gun. It is none of your business whether she is having an abortion or own a gun.

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 01/14/13 - 10:03 am
4
0
So I guess some think the

So I guess some think the civil war could have been prevented by "gun control". Sheesh.

nofanofobama
6809
Points
nofanofobama 01/14/13 - 10:06 am
6
0
tech**if congress or the prez

tech**if congress or the prez calls forth a militia that is govt sponsored..the 2nd amendment is talking about a non-govt militia..the right of the people is no way construed to mean the right of the govt to call a militia..ie.. a nat. guard..what you posted has nothing to do with the rights of the individual..it just shows that the govt can call a militia from the people..thats all..

RMSHEFF
15735
Points
RMSHEFF 01/14/13 - 10:06 am
6
0
Techfan misses the whole point. Its peace through strength!

The best deterrent to a federal government who would try to exercise tyranny against the people is a well armed citizen. They would think twice if the people are armed. Just as a thug would be less likely to harass a person he knew was carrying a gun. A burglar chooses a easy target. Techfan would rely on the "goodness" of man to secure his freedom. History is not on his side.

nofanofobama
6809
Points
nofanofobama 01/14/13 - 10:11 am
4
0
where does abortion show up

where does abortion show up in the constitution like the right to bear arms. there are provisions provided by our forefathers for change..its called amending the constitution by a legal process. funny how the left can find absolute rights to abortion in the constitution and at the same time find all kinds of limits on the 2nd amendment which is not there..

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 01/14/13 - 10:23 am
1
11
Like I said, the right wing

Like I said, the right wing likes to read into it what they want vs looking at what the founding fathers said. "Oh, that doesn't apply anymore." blah, blah, blah. This was 3 years after the country officially existed. The were the guys who wrote it, debated it, and lived it. They might have a better understanding of what they intended than the far right wing zealots who make it up as they go along. Of course the founding fathers hated and feared corporations and the current right wing supreme court gives them full personhood, so to heck with founding fathers.

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 01/14/13 - 10:53 am
8
0
Tech you are mixing two

Tech you are mixing two different things the 2nd amendment and a congressional act that were imposed for different reasons. We have lots of laws that are related but diffferent. This act obviously was different because it didn't usurp the 2nd amendment nor qualify it. Weak argument.

dichotomy
32041
Points
dichotomy 01/14/13 - 10:58 am
9
0
"Like I said, the right wing

"Like I said, the right wing likes to read into it"

Well at least we read it and try to follow it. Which is more than I can say for our left wing president.

debbiep38
421
Points
debbiep38 01/14/13 - 11:23 am
0
0
Poor Techfan.
Unpublished

Poor Techfan.

Little Lamb
45282
Points
Little Lamb 01/14/13 - 11:26 am
5
0
Other sources

Techfan loves to post selected texts of laws passed by Congress through the years which he hopes will bolster his belief that the state is the wellspring of society, and that the individual must serve the state. I humbly remind him of a philosophical argument from the Declaration of Independence:

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Note: The antecedent for “Object” in the sentence above refers to “Governments long established” which appears in the preceding sentence of the Declaration.

It is this philosophy that governments derive their just powers from the governed which leads to the notion that citizen militias must be allowed to arm themselves in the unfortunate event that they need to throw off their government which has become despotic. Hence, assault weapons and arsenals of ammunition must be construed as a basic human right.

grouse
1635
Points
grouse 01/14/13 - 11:54 am
0
0
Fast and Furious started as
Unpublished

Fast and Furious started as Operation Gunrunner under George W. Bush. There is no way the citizenry can rise up against the greatest military force in the world. Besides, we change laws and representatives through votes, not coups.

myfather15
54180
Points
myfather15 01/14/13 - 11:56 am
4
0
@Bizkit

You're wrong sir, Obama is not their demi-god. He is just a pawn being used, I promise you that. George Soros IS their demi-god. Obama is a disgusting pawn of Soros!!

myfather15
54180
Points
myfather15 01/14/13 - 11:59 am
4
0
@Little Lamb

Does it surprise you that the left uses the Constitution or documents from the founding fathers to confuse people?

What did Satan use to tempt/test Christ on the mount? The answer is SCRIPTURE. He just twisted it or left certain parts out that rendered the Scripture completely different than its meaning. It's the exact same today as then. They twist the meaning or wording to fit their agenda. It shall work, for a while. But boy are they going to pay for it.

myfather15
54180
Points
myfather15 01/14/13 - 12:04 pm
3
0
Real Reason for gun control!!

The disarming of the law abiding citizens IS the ultimate goal. The left wing politicians ARE NOT stupid as many would like to think. They are brilliant. They realize their laws WILL NOT effect criminals, but criminals AREN'T their target. Law abiding citizens ARE their target.

Learn who George Soros!! He is the GOD of the left wing; No, it isn't Obama, it's George Soros!!!

George Soros Quote; “The main obstacle to a stable and just WORLD ORDER is the United States.”

You must understand, the United States MUST FALL in the minds of the left wing, in order for a JUST World order to take over. THIS is what they are working for is a one world order, where THEIR rules are what govern the world. George Soros and Barack Obama would be major leaders in this order. So, the United States and their ability to defend itself, MUST be weakened, period!!

Now, here is a quote from Isoroku Yamamoto (Commanding General of the Imperial Japanese Navy during WWII); "You can not invade the American mainland, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass."

The left wing realizes this; They've already crippled us economically (16 trillion debt), educationally, religously and now they are working on the guns. THIS COUNTRY COULD NEVER BEEN OVERTAKEN BY FORCE AS LONG AS WE CITIZENS CAN DEFEND IT WITH FIREARMS/MILITIA. It's the reason for the 2nd amendment in the first place. For the defense of the Country against governements, foreign and domestic. They MUST weaken this defense because it's the most important. It's the ONLY reason no Country has ever even attempted to come to this land to attack.

Now, they realize this and are now working on that facet of the takeover. George Soros and Obama realize they MUST reduce the United States Citizens ability to defend themselves from oppressive governements. Because that is EXACTLY what they want is a ONE WORLD oppressive government. They have much support from Countries all over the world. They must weaken us to put us on the level playing field with them. GUNS are the only thing keeping us above them, now they are taking them. Watch and SEE!!! The following link is a great read about the most evil man in the world, George Soros!!

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/14700

Darby
25010
Points
Darby 01/14/13 - 01:02 pm
6
0
"This was 3 years after the country officially existed. The(y)..

....were the guys who wrote it, debated it, and lived it."

And Techfan is the guy to read it today and infer whatever he darn well wants to from it.

There is absolutely nothing in that drivel he posted to establish the definition of militia. In the final analysis, it is all trumped by the one phrase, ....."the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Maybe Techfan would like to try his hand at redefining the phrase, "the people". That could be good for a laugh.

It's there, it's set in stone and short of another constitutional amendment (which will never happen) to reverse the 2nd, it will be there when Techfan's great, great, great, great grandchildren have passed on.

In spite of the radical left's success in making end runs around the Constitution in other areas, they have failed to invalidate the 2nd Amendment simply because of the unambiguity of that one phrase.

harley_52
22987
Points
harley_52 01/14/13 - 12:54 pm
5
0
The Term "Militia"....

...no longer has even the slightest relevance to the discussion about the rights of citizens to be armed. The Supreme Court made that perfectly clear on a number of occasions, but most recently in 2008 in Heller vs. D.C..

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

There isn't any room for further question, except in the minds of the ultra-left.

harley_52
22987
Points
harley_52 01/14/13 - 12:55 pm
3
0
myfather15....

Your 11:04 AM post....very well done.

Darby
25010
Points
Darby 01/14/13 - 12:59 pm
4
0
Myfather15.. In your 10:56 am post......

....did it occur to you that you could substitute "spawn" for "pawn" with little to no change in meaning?

Just thinking out loud...

KSL
126321
Points
KSL 01/14/13 - 01:15 pm
6
1
Great posts, everyone but

Great posts, everyone but Techfan's.

KSL
126321
Points
KSL 01/14/13 - 02:01 pm
4
1
Yeah for Yamamoto, a very

Yeah for Yamamoto, a very smart man who studied in the US and toured it., something Obama failed to pick up on when he finally arrived on the mainland. But then I have never thought Obama had any smarts. He is just a puppet. And his admission to Ivy League schools was paid for by someone or multiple puppet handlers.

myfather15
54180
Points
myfather15 01/14/13 - 02:42 pm
2
0
The Bible;

The Bible says the One world order (First Beast in Revelations) will rear it's ugly head. But then it shall receive a deadly wound, which will stop it from coming to full fruition. The 2nd Beast (Anti-Christ himself) shall appear and HEAL the deadly wound the first beast receives.

Now as Soros stated; "The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States".

So in his plan the United States MUST be taken down. The main step is to disarm the citizenry, therefore they would be unable to defend themselves. So, what happens if that Citizenry REFUSES to be disarmed? What happens if the Country WILL NOT comply with the gun registrations or complete bans? Then the United States goes into turmoil, on the brink of Civil War again. Could this be the very "Deadly Wound" spoken of. Could this be the deadly wound to the ONE WORLD ORDER? If the Country is on the brink of Civil War, we might need someone to make peace, right? Could it be the 2nd beast of Revelations? The 2nd Beast heals the deadly wound which the first beast receives. Hhhhhhmmmm, might be something to think about. Food for thought maybe?

dichotomy
32041
Points
dichotomy 01/14/13 - 03:58 pm
3
0
The militia defined.

By the way, the folks who keep arguing the milita point and saying it means an organized militia should be aware that the definition of the milita is spelled out in Title 10 of the US Code Section 311. Technically all able bodied males between ages 17 and 45 are members of the unorganized militia.

10 U.S.C. § 311 : US Code - Section 311: Militia: composition and classes

"(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia."

The referenced Title 32 Section 313 merely states that you can join the National Guard up to 64 years old if you were a former member of the armed forces.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 01/14/13 - 04:02 pm
0
7
George Soros, Satan, One

George Soros, Satan, One World Order, flouride in the water. There's your modern day Republican Party. Paranoid, conspiracy theorists, theocratic, and whatever else that's going 180 degrees away from reality. Thank God they're dying off and the demographics are going against them. Hopefully all of the people who deal in reality and have seen how far out there these folks really are will get out to vote in 2014 and we can get as many out of office as we can. People sat on their laurels in 2010 and the House is as gerrymandered as it can get. Thanks to Dick Armey (R) setting the precedent, we obviously don't have to wait for a census to redistrict. Since 2 million more people voted for Democrats in House races, once they start taking back state houses they can redistrict the Congressional seats back to a somewhat normal split. Let's get these do nothing, obstructionist, religious nutcase zealots out of office and have some sane representation and let them get back to worrying about how woman parts work, birth certificates, and lies from the pit of hell back home in their living room and not have these loons in the government.

Back to Top

Top headlines

Paine plans furloughs, salary cuts, layoffs

Paine College President George C. Bradley on Friday announced the college will implement furlough days, salary reductions and layoffs to save $2.4 million over the next fiscal year.
Search Augusta jobs