Abortion about human rights

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Regarding the Jan. 7 editorial (“State can’t choose views”):

The state of North Carolina will allow a motorist to purchase a “Save the Sea Turtle” and save “Wildlife Resources” without allowing one to purchase a tag such as “Eat More Sea Turtle.” You state that the issue of saving unborn human babies is a political argument mirroring what the federal judge ruled. The issue of abortion is a human rights issue, not a political or religious one.

Choosing life as opposed to choosing to kill an unborn baby by dismemberment when she is innocent of any crime is an issue all states should be fiercely supporting. Laws are made to teach acceptable behavior as well as punish those who violate such behavior. It is a scientific fact of embryology that life comes from life and only humans can procreate human life.

The 1972 Roe v. Wade decision was flawed, as it falsely proclaimed it could not define when life begins. Ask any of the Georgia Regents University researchers in human genetics if the fertilized human egg is human life or not. An unborn baby is not a “potential life,” as abortionists misinform; rather, she is a human life with potential.

We recognize the genocide of Jews and enslavement of African-Americans was against the natural law. Why can we not see the current genocide of more than 55 million babies since Roe v. Wade? A state that supports a “Choose Life” license plate is being openly honest, just as Georgia without apology allows me to drive with such a plate!

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RussellCrawford
9
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RussellCrawford 01/09/13 - 01:07 am
0
12
No such thing as a real pro lifer

The fact is that the pro life movement causes death, it does not save life. A pro lifer has a choice, they may save a born baby or they may kill that baby and choose to save a fetus instead. Of course we all know that pro lifers choose to let born babies die. It is not "saving life" to murder a born baby to save a fetus. And the fact is that there are 1.8 born people dying each second and 1.4 abortions per second. If a person spends 10 seconds saving fetuses then in that 10 seconds 18 born babies, children or adults will die.

Further, until the DNA of the genotype expresses the correct phenotype, one cannot tell if the product of conception is alive or human. In fact 70 percent of conceptions die in the first trimester and of those that live another 15% die before birth. And of those that die, 60 percent are not human enough to live as humans. What that means is that one cannot prove that there is life at conception. Life is continuous, it is not created at conception, life at conception is a lie.

Fundamental_Arminian
1833
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 01/09/13 - 05:25 am
7
1
Timely LTE

With another anniversary approaching of the infamous Roe v. Wade decision, this fine letter by Dr. Tribby is well-timed. The American Life League reports that in the U.S. an average of 3,288 abortions are performed every day.

http://www.all.org/nav/index/heading/OQ/cat/MzQ/id/NjA3OQ/

To grasp the extent of this violence, we should compare it to the recent shooting incident at Sandy Hook Elementary School, where 26 persons died. It would take 126 of these shooting incidents every day to approximate the violence committed in our abortion centers.

RMSHEFF
16001
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RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 10:35 am
3
0
"Dittos" Well said...

"Dittos" Well said...

RMSHEFF
16001
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RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 03:32 pm
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0
Russell Crawford

This is the most warped sence of reasoning I have seen since I have been online. Some will twist everything to advocate the murder of the most innocent among us. I think, although your reasoning is very difficult to understand, you are saying that because I am not able to save everyone than I am guilty of murdering the ones I can't save.

As for your statement "one cannot tell if the product of conception is alive or human." There is only one element missing at this point and that is "time". Everything else needed is present and in process. It is obvious from your statement you are a enemy of the unborn, not a place I would want to be when I stand before the Lord.

grouse
1635
Points
grouse 01/09/13 - 11:33 am
0
0
License tags should not be
Unpublished

License tags should not be advertising banners, period. I guess God or Mother Nature is the biggest criminal of all, since one in four of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. According to one statistic, 44 million abortions are carried out each year, however, 70 thousand maternal deaths and 5 million disabilities per year globally, and that happens to cogent teenagers and adults, but I guess that's ok with Dr. Tribby. Unfortunately, pro-lifers like Dr. Tribby are unable to distinguish a group of cells no bigger than the period at the end of this sentence to a fully functioning, thinking human being...and don't tell me religion doesn't play a part in this inability.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 01/09/13 - 12:57 pm
7
1
Russell Crawford, if life at
Unpublished

Russell Crawford, if life at conception is, as you say, a lie, then tell us exactly when life begins and what is the defining characteristic or characteristics. I dare you to try, but I doubt you will, because you will simply look silly if you do.

dichotomy
32672
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dichotomy 01/09/13 - 01:27 pm
2
0
"Russell Crawford This is the

"Russell Crawford

This is the most warped since of reasoning I have seen since I have been online."

I do believe I am a ditto on that one. I also believe his staticstics are a bit misleading. I do not count a fertilized egg that fails to implant as a conception. Maybe it is technically a "conception" but it is not a pregnancy and 70% of pregnancies DO NOT die in the first trimester. I think the right to lifers are mainly concerned with an implanted, thriving fetuses.

And of THOSE viable pregancies he says 15% die before birth and 60% of those (which is 9% of total post first trimester pregancies) die because they were not human enough to live as humans. So the only relevant number he used was that 15% of viable pregnancies that survive the first trimester die before birth. That sounds a little high to me but let's assume it is correct. That means that 85% of elective aborted post first trimester fetuses were viable human beings heartbeat and a future before some doctor ripped their perfectly formed little bodies apart or stuck the equivalent of a screwdriver through their heads. That is a the only relevant statistic in this discussion. 85% are human and viable.

I admit that I am not smart enough to make a legal decision between the constitutional rights of a woman to control her body and the constitutional right to life of an unborn fetus, neither of which are specifically spelled out in the Constitution, but I know where my sympathies lie. I'm not saying I would overturn Roe v. Wade. I do think that a woman has the right to control her body. But I would restrict taxpayer funding for elective abortions to the first trimester ONLY except in verified, medically necessary cases to protect the life of the mother, confirmed reported rape, or confirmed incest. That would be the best decision I could come up with given a repulsive choice. Just because a woman has the legal right to control her body does NOT mean the taxpayer should be legally obligated to pay for late term abortions.

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 01/09/13 - 02:32 pm
6
2
Usually, people who support

Usually, people who support things have something in common with them..a tie, a connection, an experience. I find it truly amazing that all those who support abortion were birthed and a great many of them males. Gee imagine that, sperm doners who would like the problem to just go away.

When the first person who supports abortion volunteers to be aborted, I will then listen to their comments...until then, no.

All of the "right to abort" matters began with the concept of endangering the mother's life (death) due to health issues or rape. Those arguments apply to less than 2 percent of all abortions and are simply used to garner support for the other 98 percent who choose not to take proper precautions or make wiser decisions.

And our politicians who support it, nothing more than a vote getter. Most of them aren't killing their own children.
It's murder by convenience, nothing more. Simply, murder.

oneofthesane
2201
Points
oneofthesane 01/09/13 - 02:26 pm
1
0
"right to abort" matters began with the concept of rape...
Unpublished

glad some believe there are conditions where abortion is acceptable...obviously it becomes acceptable when the person carrying the child feels it justifiably so? Rape? Although a heinous crime isnt the fault of the unborn child? So why kill the child?....oh yea...because it is only acceptable then. Got it!

CobaltGeorge
157778
Points
CobaltGeorge 01/09/13 - 02:33 pm
1
1
Thanks RMSHEFF & dichotomy

There is no way I could have make a comment to his post Using the PC way you did. Thanks again.

Willow Bailey
20580
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Willow Bailey 01/09/13 - 02:34 pm
5
2
I'd like to point out...

That thumbs down didn't come from an aborted person. They are all in heaven with their little thumbs pointing UPWARDS.

crkgrdn
2287
Points
crkgrdn 01/09/13 - 02:39 pm
3
0
Rights

Just because you have the right does not make the behavior right: slavery, prostitution, self-destructive behavior...and abortion.

The word abortion has an interesting use in our culture: abort the mission, abort the project, abort the flight...and abort a child.

Why not call this murder of innocents what it is; the mutilation of motherhood.

What some folks really wish is that Immaculate Mary had had an abortion then the road would be open without guilt. But, that is not what happened. I am not sorry that Christianity is pesky.

oneofthesane
2201
Points
oneofthesane 01/09/13 - 02:39 pm
0
0
No government mandate should be created to tell a person what...
Unpublished

choices they can make regarding creating life and their body. If one carried a hereditary disease that effected a limb or the alike and it was highly possible to be life threatening, would you like if the government created a law that states that you and every one of your children and their children and so forth had to have that limb or the alike REMOVED? Meaning the government would mandate what it is you were allowed to do with your body and what your children and children's children can do with theirs.

InChristLove
22472
Points
InChristLove 01/09/13 - 02:46 pm
2
0
I have to agree with CG on

I have to agree with CG on this one.....I'm not feeling very PC on this one.

oneofthesane
2201
Points
oneofthesane 01/09/13 - 02:47 pm
0
0
government has no business in ppl's bodies.
Unpublished

government has no business in ppl's bodies.

RMSHEFF
16001
Points
RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 03:45 pm
4
0
The bottom line in "my world"

The bottom line in "my world" is that God is the author of life not man. He appoints a time to be born and a time to die. Man in his attempt to dethrone God, decides whether or not someone should live and soon, under Obamacare when some one should die. Ironically, American will suffer the results of 50+ million abortions with a unsustainable social welfare system.

ultrarnr
910
Points
ultrarnr 01/09/13 - 03:53 pm
0
0
Simple Solution
Unpublished

If you are opposed to abortion just don't have one.

CobaltGeorge
157778
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CobaltGeorge 01/09/13 - 04:16 pm
2
1
There Is a Death Panel In The Making!

I'm 73 and it scares the Poo out of me.

Bizkit
31230
Points
Bizkit 01/09/13 - 05:01 pm
1
1
Russell just needs to be

Russell just needs to be educated. By his logic we aren't human even after being born a human baby because all of our genotype isn't expressed as a phenotype then either. We continue to develop-that's why it is called Developmental Biology-with Embryology just the beginning. Hearing, sight, vision, digestion, immune, excretory, respiratory , etc. still developing to maturity. Of course, there are no guarantees that a conceptus will come to term but you definitely can guarantee the outcome by abortion. Aborion is without doubt killing a human being, but we have the death penalty and we have war so apparently sometimes death does become us. It's a privacy issue and an issue of conscience-not collective conscience. All evolution is based on the idea that life is a continuum, we pass on heritable traits through reproduction-genotypes -mix of genes specifying phenotypes-traits. Two monozygotic twins start of with identical genotypes but with time and environment their phenotypes (traits) become different (one may express a trait and another not such as rolling your tongue)-we continue to express genes and traits. His logic is flawed and he is ignorant of basic biology. No offense.

RMSHEFF
16001
Points
RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 05:04 pm
3
1
CobaltGeorge

Now that the Government will be in charge of all of our healthcare they will suddenly see a need to cut cost and save money. We can't expect them to expend these limited resources on us old people, after all , we are no longer productive citizens and sit around all day criticizing the government!

RMSHEFF
16001
Points
RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 05:48 pm
3
0
Bizkit I was agreeing with

Bizkit I was agreeing with your post until a read a couple of you statements," but we have the death penalty and we have war so apparently sometimes death does become us." Death , no matter how it comes about represents failure and should never be celebrated. Even in the event of self defense, while it is completely justifiable, is a tragedy. All wars should also be justifiable on the basis of self defense, but equally regrettable. I don't know how you can compare abortion with wars and the death penalty and suggest abortion is a privacy issue."It's a privacy issue and an issue of conscience-not collective conscience. " Either it is the taking of a human life or it is not. Under your standard, parents could decide in the privacy of their home that they no longer wanted their 2 year old daughter and would only be an issue of their conscience. How about their 10 year old son who is becoming to expensive to raise?

burninater
9580
Points
burninater 01/09/13 - 06:20 pm
0
3
The bottom line in "my world"

The bottom line in "my world" is that God is the author of life not man. He appoints a time to be born and a time to die. Man in his attempt to dethrone God, decides whether or not someone should live ...
-----
This line of reasoning NECESSITATES that you be opposed to both capital punishment and to all lethal forms of force regardless of circumstance. Otherwise, you commit the same sin of choosing to be the author of life that you accuse an abortionist of having committed.

There are many reasons to be for or against abortion -- but if you are using the God is the author of life argument in opposition while supporting the taking of life by Man in other circumstances, you really aren't being honest with your self, your God, or anyone else.

Bizkit
31230
Points
Bizkit 01/09/13 - 06:39 pm
1
0
It's a matter of conscience

It's a matter of conscience every time we commit a sin. There are no differences between sins. We all sin-most everyday. Death is a part of life. I celibrate both-because I will experience both. I don't agree with abortion but support the fact it may likely be a necessity one day for population control. My own personal choice is my freedom to make-I would let someone else have the same freedom. Why would I judge their sin with the 2X4 in my own eye? I personally would love to see abortion, war, death penalty, murder all go extinct-but get real.

RMSHEFF
16001
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RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 07:01 pm
3
0
God has clearly given people

God has clearly given people the authority to defend ourselves and given government the duty to do the same including the death penalty and just war. There are penalties for sin even on earth and God has given civil government the authority to exact this punishment. Like everything else this authority has been corrupted by Man.

Willow Bailey
20580
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Willow Bailey 01/09/13 - 07:33 pm
5
1
With all due respect, bizkit, I don't think so.

We cannot completely enjoy the right to make all of our own decisions and live in a peaceful society. There is a a huge difference between allowing personal choices which can result in "bad" choices and allowing choices that result in "criminal." ones.

Any choice that we make that infringes on the life or livelihood of others must be protected by law. It is not reasonable to argue or justify abortion by simply saying women should have a right to choose.

Whatever choices that inflict injury or death on another is a CRIMINAL choice. Getting drunk is a bad choice, drinking and driving is criminal. Having unprotected sex outside of marriage is a bad choice, killing the baby is criminal.

There is no moral difference between supporting abortion and supporting the right to abort. They are the same in the end. Even if we don't have all of the answers to this problem, it is still important to take a stand. To say emphatically... Hey, Life begins in the womb, at conception. That baby has a brain, a heartbeat, it's sucking it's little thumb and is completely dependent on his parents to protect him/her and give it safe passage into this world.

There are many choices others will make that I have no power to stop. But I will not give them either my support or my silence on the matter. I will say...this is not right and I stand against it.

God knows His child, He has formed it in the womb. He knows the days of its life and has a plan for that life.

RMSHEFF
16001
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RMSHEFF 01/09/13 - 08:34 pm
1
1
Willow Bailey....Good

Willow Bailey....Good Post....that says it all.

InChristLove
22472
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InChristLove 01/09/13 - 08:53 pm
1
1
Wow wish I could give Willow

Wow wish I could give Willow several thumbs up instead of just one!! Very well stated!

Bizkit
31230
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Bizkit 01/09/13 - 09:44 pm
0
0
Jesus said give Caesar his

Jesus said give Caesar his due. Roe vs Wade was beyond my control and is what "Caesar" says is law. All the rest of the laws on the books are same-and many I take offense too. I can take a personal stand but as far as I know there is no collective salvation so I can't speak for the collective. Everybody has a choice. I like that Libertarian notion of freedom. Morality is not my domain that is God's. I refuse to speak for God as he had done so more eloquently. I can only hold my own morality-which I have done so. I have been let down by more Christians you can shake a stick at it so don't tell me christians are any different than anyone else. We are all sinners but just some of us forgiven and finally growing through Christ to be a human being. Sadly only through Christ can we be anything other than an animal and we tend to be mostly animal. I will not judge others because of the "grace" shown me-if some young girl makes the bad choice of an abortion-well I know God is in control. Lord knows the bad choices I've made. It isn't my job to enforce God's law-but we as a collective can influence that. I like freedom because it assures me my religious freedom-and if our society wants gay marriage then fine as long as I still maintain my own. The best I can do is be a witness for Christ in my life and what choices I've made and how I've changed to being a close resemblance to a human being. Morally I don't support war, murder, abortion, slavery, etc but that has nothing to do with reality. Note all existed during the times of Jesus and did he address abortion-no. He didn't denounce slavery or abortion. Y'all are lookin' at peripherals. It's all about relationships with other humans and the Lord. It is our heart and not our actions (any of you still without sin?) he seems to favor-as with David. I can't change the law but I can influence a heart. That's my job as a christian. When Jesus returns he has the rest under control. He has already defeated Satan once-the outcome of the rematch is predictable.

Gage Creed
17085
Points
Gage Creed 01/09/13 - 09:53 pm
1
0
BPee...would that make the

BPee...would that make the converse of your argument true? If one supports abortion, they should then support capital punishment and/or lethal force?

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 01/09/13 - 10:07 pm
2
1
I confess, I AM a repenting (ongoing) Sinner.

I agree with most of what you just posted and most of the time agree with you totally.

My child is now an adult, well by law, anyway. She and I don't agree on all things. Above all, it is now my job, not to control her, but to continue to try to have influence over her. How can I do that and not compromise my own values and beliefs? Certainly by continuing to have as close of a relationship as she will allow and listening to her when she wants to processess her thoughts and decisions with me.

When I know she is getting ready to make a mistake that will cost her dearly...for instance her right to drink or her right to move out before she is ready... I get to choose between..that's your decision AND have you measured the price of your choice?

I've found the later to have much more impact and influence on her ultimate choices.

All I'm saying is, we are as Christians to speak out against all things wrong; not as those who are sinless, but as those who have sinned and faced the consequences of them. That is our testamony...our sins, the consequences of them, and God's Mercy on us.

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