Guns deter criminals

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I would estimate approximately 100 percent of the banks in the country have armed guards. Banks’ decision-makers know that the obvious presence of armed guards will decrease the frequency of armed robberies. Anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that. Officials responsible for courthouses and baseball stadiums likewise insist on armed guards whenever the doors open to the public.

How strange that most schools’ decision-makers (including legislators) in the United States lack the modicum of common sense it takes to realize what the Israelis figured out years ago: If you do not have armed guards (whether or not they also teach) in all schools, you are guaranteeing that evildoers will shoot your teachers and schoolchildren.

Richard Arnold

Augusta

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Chad
57
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Chad 12/30/12 - 09:37 am
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Agreed,

Mr. Arnold is spot on. If DC wants to ban assualt style like weapons. Lets start at the top and have all of our leaders go without your armed guards. Lets see who give up their body guards first. "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
--Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria in On Crimes and Punishment (1764)

Bulldog1
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Bulldog1 12/30/12 - 09:59 am
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Could not agree more!

I am amazed that the obvious nature of this conclusion is failing to reach some. I suspect that those who are nay sayers, take that position only because they know that endorsing this common sense approach will negate their universal anti-gun philosophy. People like these show themselves as the fools that they are.

soapy_725
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soapy_725 12/30/12 - 10:08 am
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Fools don't do logic.

Unpublished

And totalitarian governments want a defenseless population. Totalitarian governments want chaos until they are in complete control. This we can say is truth.

Jon Lester
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Jon Lester 12/30/12 - 10:17 am
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I question your math.

How do you figure such strong probability that every unguarded school will inevitably be attacked?

soapy_725
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soapy_725 12/30/12 - 10:17 am
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Guns do not deter crime?

Unpublished

The White House, Capital Building, Pentagon, Airports, Military Bases, Police Actions both foreign and domestic, military personnel, Secret Service, etc. have guns for protection of life and property. Only individual citizens, not a part of the government, have no need for protection of life and property.

No there is an area where logically we could save billions. Remove all weapons from our society. A L L guns. Private and government. We can then do what we love best. Talk one another to death.

effete elitist liberal
2769
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effete elitist liberal 12/30/12 - 10:36 am
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bank guards

Number of bank robberies in 2011, just one year, (despite all those armed guards):6000+
Number of school shootings (with very few armed guards) in the twelve years 1997-2009: 145.
Nice analogy!

GiantsAllDay
8181
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GiantsAllDay 12/30/12 - 11:16 am
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Famous bank robber Willie

Famous bank robber Willie Sutton: "I rob banks because that's where the money is".

TParty
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TParty 12/30/12 - 11:21 am
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How many bank robberies have

How many bank robberies have we had here in Augusta alone this year?

American's want armed guards everywhere, and security- because they feel better about it. That is, until rules and restrictions start affecting them personally and you realize what a security theater we have. Who actually likes TSA, groping seniors with medical needs, and removing clothing from our children? Telling us to put water bottles at heavily populated areas in the airports, because it might be a bomb and you can't bring it on the plane...

Do we really want TSA like folks in our schools? And who is going to pay for it, and how?

What boggles my mind is- the far right always says the left loves big government. 'Giverment' is thrown around here a lot. Liberals want a nanny state, big and bloated expensive government! Liberals just want it! However it seems to be the far right that wants the government to hire hundreds of thousands of government workers to protect our public schools, and then arm them!! So much disconnect.

faithson
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faithson 12/30/12 - 11:36 am
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forest through the trees

Tparty hits the nail on the head here... like the frog in water on a hot stove, to many of us do not realize how many of our judicial rights have been compromised in the last 10 years in fighting the war on terror. Those who would give up their liberty for security ARE making decisions based upon FEAR, a very poor motivation in good decision making. (killing a US citizen by drone strike without prior judicial review is appalling)

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 12/30/12 - 11:53 am
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Hunting

From the Associated Press sidebar to Bianca Cain Johnson's front page article in today's print edition (I could not find the sidebar on line) came this little snippet from the “analysis” of the fully automatic assault weapons definition:

Even hunters say there is little practical use for them.

Once again the Associated Press is deflecting context from the subject of gun control. The second amendment to the Constitution was written to protect much more than hunting. The main purpose for allowing the people to own guns was to provide a layer of protection from tyrannical government. Somehow, that gets omitted from Congressional discussions of assault weapons bans.

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 12/30/12 - 11:58 am
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Employment

TParty posted:

However it seems to be the far right that wants the government to hire hundreds of thousands of government workers to protect our public schools, and then arm them!

Well, we have mustered out many Iraq theater veterans; and in 2013 & 2014 we will muster out many more Afghanistan theater veterans. They are being turned out onto streets filled with unemployed persons seeking fewer and fewer jobs. Putting these out-of-work warriors to work inside schools protecting our children would seem to be a win-win. Who would pay them? I submit that their salaries must come from local school system taxpayers, not the federal government.

TParty
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TParty 12/30/12 - 12:42 pm
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That sounds like a stimulas

That sounds like a stimulas Little Lamb, and of course, it's still a bigger government. Local taxes will have to be raised, mostly likely from those owning property. I'm sure politicians can be creative in what they name this tax and extra armed government employees in our communities.

And of course the psychological affect of children- who will grow up with armed guards, thinking this is normal. When they grow up to become leaders of this nation, they will all say "I grew up with armed guards everywhere, while our government spied on Americans without warrants and American's could be locked up without trials, and I turned out okay! Freedom is awesome!"

I'll pass on armed guards every where.

Bantana
2071
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Bantana 12/30/12 - 01:32 pm
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Was not Columbine High School

Was not Columbine High School under the protection of an armed guard? And sadly, we know how that worked out.

Gage Creed
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Gage Creed 12/30/12 - 01:52 pm
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Nice deflection Bantana...if

Nice deflection Bantana...if you had actually READ the report on Columbine you would understand that having an armed presence onsite did save lives. But that does not fit the talking points eh?

Scratch
147
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Scratch 12/30/12 - 01:59 pm
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Local Decision

Was not one of the adult victims a school psychologist? That's right, a psychologist for a K thru grade 5 elementary school! Some community leaders decided to hire psychologists for schools. I can only assume a psychologist earns a very decent wage/salary. Might similar leaders in other communities decide to pay a lesser amount to an armed guard rather than a psychologist? Just a thought.

grouse
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grouse 12/30/12 - 02:13 pm
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Re: letter...and banks are

Unpublished

Re: letter...and banks are robbed every day.

harley_52
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harley_52 12/30/12 - 02:22 pm
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"Was not Columbine High School under the protection...

... of an armed guard?"

I heard they were members of a labor union and refused to come off break.

Fiat_Lux
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Fiat_Lux 12/30/12 - 03:00 pm
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Food for thought from a famous pacifist...

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
- Mohandas Gandhi, An Autobiography, page 446.

(hattip to Natural News)

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 12/30/12 - 03:28 pm
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I side with Tparty on this.

I side with Tparty on this. Creating another bureaucracy is not the answer. However, I would create legislation at the state level, allowing school employees to carry. No one would have to know who and how many, but just the fact of knowing that SOME adults in every school have a gun in their purse, backpack, or briefcase would deter some nutballs. Of course, the requirements to allow them on school property would be much higher than just getting a CWP. Intensive training would be mandatory.

I stand by my solution of putting electronic locks on all doors, so no one can get past the lobby without an escort from a school employee. That includes classrooms, if there is an emergency and the system locks down, you can't even get into a classroom without a master key.
This serves other purposes too; any time a student goes out a door, they don't come back in without being let in. That might stop some of the sneaking off campus for lunch, etc.

Lastly, all of this is a little silly considering that if one really was bent on making his name at a school; all he has to do is get his hands on some fertilizer, diesel fuel, and an old van. Ram the front door and light it up. Scary, but that is our world in 2013.

gargoyle
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gargoyle 12/30/12 - 04:08 pm
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Conversation starter

What would it take to buy a AK-47,74 or101,a real one not a AK-M with the ATF compliant American made parts that de-mill it ?Same for a AR15 that was converted to military or police specs. Both are highly regulated and caught having one without papers will get the person holding them prison time no questions asked.So if Assault guns are allready regulated and controlled how much more illegal can they be made?

TParty
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TParty 12/30/12 - 04:21 pm
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"Lastly, all of this is a

"Lastly, all of this is a little silly considering that if one really was bent on making his name at a school"

I wonder how many mass shootings are because people want to make a name for themselves. I've been saying for the past couple of years- but the media should not go into these shootings like we see them. No stories on the shooters lives, the why, with crappy graphics of how they went about it, interviewing people for the news about the shooter for weeks on end. Very few people should recognize the names or faces of these shooters, but what is the bet if pictures and names popped up- Americans can say "Oh he shot up that once place" going all the way back to 1999? It shouldn't be like that.

BamaMan
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BamaMan 12/30/12 - 04:28 pm
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Guns

While I've never been a fan of guns, and certainly not the NRA, and seeing how this country of ours is going, I am there, finally entertaining the thought of getting a handgun. At any given time, all around you are convicted felons with guns. I HATE guns, but you have to at some point realize they may be your only protection or deterrant. I have to say I agree with the NRA in the statement "the only thing that will stop a bad buy with a gun, is a GOOD guy with a gun". Now to be able to even buy a gun is the only question.

YeCats
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YeCats 12/30/12 - 04:57 pm
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Armed guards and evildoers:

What about the students on buses going to and fro? Field trips? Sporting events?

We now are a society like Israel. And we better get the PC out, and the profiling in.

Determent is the solution.

harley_52
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harley_52 12/30/12 - 06:17 pm
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"So if Assault guns...

....are allready regulated and controlled how much more illegal can they be made?"

This is perhaps the least understood issue of all...."assault guns."

You asked what it would take to "de-mil" an AK-47. Fact is, you don't have to "de-mil" it. All you have to do to make it legal is to remove its ability to fire fully automatic. What's necessary to remove that ability varies from model to model, but it's generally not all that difficult. In order to sell it to the general public it must be "semi-automatic." It has been illegal for the general public to sell or possess "fully automatic weapons" for several decades now. One of the problems is that most people discussing the issue (including most politicians) either don't know the difference, or intentionally obfuscate the truth.

Other issues you hear discussed such as "large capacity magazines," "bayonet lugs," "flash suppressors," "pistol grips" and the like have very little to do with anything from a functional perspective. If you have three 10 round magazines, or six five round magazines, you can fire just as many shots as one 30 round magazine, just a second or two slower. The other things don't really matter.

From a practical point of view, the term "assault gun" is a political term, not a real world term. One can "assault" someone with many different devices and many devices capable of being used to "assault" someone can also be used for perfectly peaceful purposes.

OpenCurtain
10049
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OpenCurtain 12/30/12 - 06:31 pm
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To again quote a Great Peace Maker

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
- Mohandas Gandhi, an Autobiography.

It was worth repeating...

OpenCurtain
10049
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OpenCurtain 12/30/12 - 06:31 pm
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2

Quit screwing around

Physically Secure the Schools.
If we are so dang worried about terrorists on planes, trains and buses and have spend BILLIONS and inconvenienced travelers for 11 years.

Why not have a Physically Secure School initiative?

It cheaper, simpler and quicker to accomplish.

BTW: when was the last time a student was stabbed to death at school using a bayonet, that was attached to an assault weapon?

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 12/31/12 - 01:59 am
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@Harley

Speaking of guns, last Sunday I wanted to shoot my TV. Face the Nation with that leftist hack Bob Schieffer was on, interviewing an NRA rep.

Quote:

SCHIEFFER: How many rounds can these weapons discharge, say, in five seconds?

KEENE: Well, they fire when you put trigger.

SCHIEFFER: Sure and they keep firing.

The fool also compared the difficulty of him getting a driver's license with getting a gun; like there was some kind of analogy there.

Read it all here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57560659/face-the-nation-transcript...

itsanotherday1
34748
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itsanotherday1 12/30/12 - 06:40 pm
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Tparty

Yes, I know the name Dylan Kleibold, but should not. Hereafter, they should just say "This John Doe". Give whatever necessary story background, but don't even mention the animal's name.

faithson
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faithson 12/30/12 - 07:16 pm
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one thing is apparent

had the assault and magazine ban been in effect... there would NOT have been an assault weapon and large capacity magazine available for purchase by the mother, period. Does this change anything ? sure, there would have not been an assault weapon, nor a large capacity magazine at the scene of this crime, period. do your 'what ifs' if you must, but the mother was a law abiding citizen and would not have had access to these instruments.

harley_52
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harley_52 12/30/12 - 07:17 pm
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It's Important To Understand....

....what's REALLY going on here.

If you think all this hand wringing, soul searching, and political drama has much to do with "school safety" you are wrong.

Do you remember when Rahm Emanuel admitted democrats should "never waste a crisis?" This, my friends, is a crisis. Democrats have no intention of wasting it.

Now, it's all about grabbing guns. Further punishing law abiding citizens by stripping them of their Constitutional rights. That's why the term "assault" gun was invented. That's why they intentionally confuse "fully automatic" with "semi-automatic." That's why they make such a fuss about "large capacity magazines." The more they can obfuscate the issue and the more inclusive they can be with "assault" guns, the more they can restrict the rights (and weapons) of law abiding citizens.

The ONLY effective way to protect helpless children gathered at schools is to do it with armed guards. Those guards can be police, military, teachers, volunteers, or whatever the situation presents. Restricting the rights of law abiding citizens WILL NOT help protect those children. But that's where the ultra-lefties are headed. They abhor an armed citizenry. It makes their task more difficult.

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