Education requires values

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Does The Augusta Chronicle really stand for conservatism?

Your editorial “A party in crisis” (Nov. 12) is mostly right. However, it never railed against public education, and I cannot recall when it has. My memory may be in error, but certainly anti-public education has not been a consistent theme. But the next day, syndicated columnist Star Parker did not miss the problem: “They (minorities) need to get their children out of public education.”

Well, conservatives need to bring down public education or at least allow equal time for conservative, Christian thinking.

In theory, public education is good for a culture. But what is almost always forgotten is that education cannot be taught without values – religious values. Even atheism is a “religion” by almost any definition. Our schools today not only champion anti-Christian values, but also consider Christian values contemptible, ridiculous and dangerous.

While we conservatives rail against the media, the public school system promotes virtually the same values that Obama does. Even those who come from families who do not need welfare, and probably would not seek it, have their thinking filled with Democratic and socialistic values. How can conservatism compete against 12 or more years of such indoctrination? For that is what happens – indoctrination, because the other side is not allowed to present or debate (with rare exceptions).

I wonder if we are so proud of, and economically dependent on, our state institutions – including Georgia Health Sciences University and Augusta State University – that we cannot see them as a problem as big, or bigger, than the media bias. I have attended classes at ASU in the past few years – it is a dark, dark campus as far as Christianity is concerned. And the values at GHSU come from the godless world of psychology and psychiatry, even as it attempts to promote healthy “values.”

I challenge The Chronicle to stand against this monstrous evil.

Ed Payne, M.D.

Augusta

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Young Fred
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Young Fred 11/16/12 - 03:24 am
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Christian, or

“Christian values” will not carry the day, no matter how right you may be. The left will fight “Christian principals” harder and with more “umph” than they would a forced caliphate.

As far as your experiences at GHSU, well that's just status quo. Did you actually believe you were entering an institution of higher learning?

There was a time in this country when “everything” was questioned and debated. A person that spent thousands and thousands of dollars at an institute of higher learning could be expected to be intellectually challenged.

No longer the case. Questioning the status quo is frowned upon, WAIT, did I say frowned upon? It is “actively discouraged”.

Techfan
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Techfan 11/16/12 - 07:35 am
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"Straight from the pit of Hell"

"Straight from the pit of Hell!!!" Maybe when the GOP figures out that US citizens don't want to turn this country into a theocracy, they might win the popular vote again. Until then, we'll just keep trying to vote the likes of Mr. Payne and the religious radicals of the American Taliban out of office.
http://www.biblicalworldview21.org/default.asp

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 08:48 am
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always good....

Always good to hear from Ed Payne, M.D., and this morning his post is exceptionally welcome. Let's see.... Since there is a need to teach religious values in our schools, and since "atheism is a 'religion' by almost any definition," we can conclude from Ed Payne, M.D.'s logic that atheism should be taught in schools. Right on, Ed Payne, M.D.!

Fundamental_Arminian
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Fundamental_Arminian 11/16/12 - 08:55 am
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Few travel the way to life; many, the road to ruin

Although I like Dr. Payne's letter, I agree with Young Fred and Techfan that Christian values cannot succeed nationally in our political arena. Sure, there will be strongholds of conservative Christians, but our Lord was right that few travel the narrow and difficult way to life while many travel the broad and easy way to destruction (Matthew 7:13-14).

For Christians, a good approach is to home-school their children or send them to Christian schools. This way, their children can be exposed to the fear of the Lord, which is the beginning (or principle part) of knowledge and wisdom (Proverbs 1:7; 9:9). Because children trained in the way they should go aren't likely to depart from it when they're older, they shouldn't be sent to a government-run school until they're well-grounded in the faith and ready for advanced education.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 11/16/12 - 09:03 am
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That's right Techfan

The GOP wants a theocracy! LMAO For every 1 person in this country you'll find who actually believes that, you could find 4 that believes we should all just belong to one giant collective.

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 09:04 am
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fear....

Ah, yes, just the way I like to start my day, a barrage of Bible quotes and "fear of the Lord," By noon, I may be a convert!

Techfan
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Techfan 11/16/12 - 09:23 am
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"the godless world of

"the godless world of psychology and psychiatry", "conservatives need to bring down public education or at least allow equal time for conservative, Christian thinking." shaming wands, "the dangers of contraception", "evolution, embryology and the Big Bang theory..;ies straight from the pit of hell", pregnancies resulting from rape are part of God’s plan,. I don't see how anyone could link that with a theocracy. How about just, a country where their right wing, evangelical interpretation of religion is codified onto law. Sound better?

Young Fred
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Young Fred 11/16/12 - 09:32 am
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I would be happy with

I would be happy with critical thinking skills taught in our public schools. Of course that would be the beginning of the end of the Democrat party, so I won't hold my breath.

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 10:04 am
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schools?

YF, do you mean like all the "critical thinking" that goes on in so-called Christian schools? "It's-true-because-it-says-so-in-the-Bible, end-of- discussion" kind of "critical thinking"?

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 10:19 am
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thumbs down....

To "thumbs down" on my last post: please, please post your defense of parochial schools as examples of critical thinking. I thought it was pretty self-evident that one of the things Christian schools boasted about was they taught certain values as absolute, based on the Bible. I am very anxious to hear thumbs down or any other poster explain....

Fundamental_Arminian
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Fundamental_Arminian 11/16/12 - 10:28 am
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Christian critical thinking isn't an oxymoron

    YF, do you mean like all the "critical thinking" that goes on in so-called Christian schools? "It's-true-because-it-says-so-in-the-Bible, end-of- discussion" kind of "critical thinking"? (effete elitist liberal).

The Bible nowhere tells us to avoid or resist knowledge or science. It tells us to avoid or resist the oppositions of what is falsely called knowledge or science (1 Timothy 6:20-21). So far, I've not found any knowledge or science that opposes or contradicts the Bible. There are plenty of theories that do that, but no science that does.

Christian critical thinking is good as a whole. Sometimes we need to examine not only our beliefs but also our doubts. It can be healthy to have doubts about our doubts and to be skeptical of our skepticism.

Gary Ross
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Gary Ross 11/16/12 - 10:25 am
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Old school

I recall starting every day with a Prayer and the Pledge of Alegence when I was in public school 50 years ago. We even put our hands over our hearts when saying the pledge (unlike the man who sits in the president's chair). It taught us humility and gave us a good feeling that we were part of something much greater, that was good. It was a great way to start the day! Our teachers were all happy and dedicated to doing the best they could for us, and we kids actually listened! The challenges given to us by our teachers taught us to think and solve problems for ourselves. I simply refuse to accept the modern notion that it was bad to do these things. God, please save America from this evil cloud that covers the land.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 11/16/12 - 10:29 am
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eel

I meant teaching about classical “liberal” (liberals as originally defined verses the current bastardized definition) thinkers, classic literature, concepts of hindrances to critical thinking, concepts of thinking several steps ahead, defining and recognizing manipulation/machinations etc.

Of course to be completely honest with you it wouldn’t only be the beginning of the end of the Dem party, but probably the Rep party as well.

soapy_725
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soapy_725 11/16/12 - 10:50 am
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Thinking beyond pushing a lever on a machine
Unpublished

was not the goal of Woodrow Wilson. Public education was not to create "wise thinkers" but to create willing factory workers. Wise thinkers would challenge the control of government. Read the great man's thoughts and his agreements with Margaret Sanger. The son of a southern minister was a totalitarian demagog and racist.

Many look to FDR as the first socialist POTUS, but Wilson set the path for FDR to follow. Use the power and wealth of America to spread economic colonialism around the world through war. FDR was a better "people person". Plus he had the "affliction thing" going for him. How can cripple be bad?

Wow, the Democratic party loves preaches, saints and Sunday School teachers. But they hate Jesus. They hate the Bible. They make a mockery of charity or as they like to call it governmental slavery.

Young Fred
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Young Fred 11/16/12 - 10:58 am
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EEL, I believe Fundamental

EEL,

I believe Fundamental Arminian provided THE answer to your questions. The mere fact that this had to be explained is a symptom of our shallow society.

KasparHauser
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KasparHauser 11/16/12 - 11:15 am
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Christian Morals in School
Unpublished

I also remember being made to stand for prayers and pledges to start each school day.

I ALSO remember:

- Adventist kids being bullied for not standing or pledging
- Black children being held from May Day celebrations because they just didn't fit in
- Jewish kids being bullied because they didn't want to tour the halls being forced to sing German carols with the German classes
- Being forced to omit the 'under god' in the Pledge mostly because it was a Knights of Columbus introduction
- Watching the Klan 'parade' on Saturday mornings to their christian chapel

All in a city miles north of the Mason-Dixon Line, too.

I'd call on a higher being to save us from this all, but that's just a COPOUT for people who are too weak to take personal action... and then pretend it was a god who did it.

dahreese
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dahreese 11/16/12 - 11:30 am
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As far as his religious views
Unpublished

As far as his religious views are concerned, Dr. Payne's article/letter is a good example of having somone having degrees but no education.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 11/16/12 - 11:47 am
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Don't know where to begin

This guy was accepted into and completed medical school and asserts that atheism is a religion? Good doctor, atheism is a RESPONSE to religion. Atheists would stay out of the public eye and you would hardly know they existed if only there weren't those who demanded for religious superstitions and mythology to be introduced to CHILDREN in schools. Talk about child abuse. We have now entered the information age where everyone has access to information if they choose to persue it. It took that long for certain atheists to demand that children no longer be exposed to religious nonsense in schools. I would assert to the good doctor that rather than a religion, athiesm is a fact based position.

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 11:57 am
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"Fundamental Arminian provided THE answer..."

OK, let's see. FA claims he has found no "science" which conflicts with the Bible. My guess is that he gets around the problem of, say evolution, by saying it's only a "theory," not "science." Of course most of the most fundamental principles of science are "theories," such as the theory of gravity. So you see, Christian "science" is circular, to say nothing of its frequently being an oxymoron. Many Christians pick and choose among scientific theories, accepting gravity for example as "fact," but rejecting,
say, evolution. Why? Because evolution conflicts with the Bible!! Circular thinking, NOT CRITICAL THINKING. It's all SO predictable!

Jake
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Jake 11/16/12 - 12:05 pm
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Ref Old School

I also started the school day with the Pledge of Allegiance, starting in kindergarten. It wasn't until we moved to Augusta in 1960 that the Bible reading kicked-in. Being a Catholic in a public school, the Bible reading was very uncomfortable for me since it was from the King James Bible, you know, the Protestant Bible. We had to take turns reading from it and I always dreaded my turn.
I would usually pick something from the Old Testament that described some horrible jawbone-of-the-donkey kind of slaughter. Yep, great way to start the school day

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 12:18 pm
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encore une fois...

Let me see if I can my point more concisely. Evolution and gravity are both scientific theories. Gravity does not contradict the Bible, so Christians accept gravity as scientific fact. Evolution, many Christians say, conflicts with the Bible, so it remains "only" a scientific theory, not a scientific fact. The difference? THE BIBLE! The Christian concept of critical thinking is what the Bible approves of!

nil.marti
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nil.marti 11/16/12 - 12:22 pm
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Christian schools do promote critical thinking

I have only one son and I sent him to a Christian school only because the schools where I live are not what one think as good public education. After Christian school my son went on to UNC-Chapel Hill (if you don't know Chapel Hill is a high ranking public university in NC). My son has become an extremely well rounded young man, with high values, high morals and not one to follow the crowds, but examines everything and comes out with his own interpretations of the world around him. I am not what you may call a church goer, but will never regret my decision to sent my son to Christian school. His education is above many young people his age. I put him against any of you who think Christian education does not promote critical thinking. My experience is otherwise.

faithson
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faithson 11/16/12 - 12:32 pm
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desegregation...

The nub of the problem was created when all those white people pulled their children out of the public system for what they envisioned was the deterioration by the 'inferiors'. Anyone remember that ? The public system has never been the same since, especially the inner city systems. The self fulfilling prophecy of deterioration can be laid directly at the feet of all those who skimmed the cream and left the milk.

GiantsAllDay
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GiantsAllDay 11/16/12 - 12:28 pm
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Good point effete

Joshua 10:13 states that God caused the sun to stand still and not set for an extra 24 hours to give Israel extra time to defeat its enemy. Sounds like good solid science to me so stop criticizing the greatest book ever written (tongue in cheek). Since Israel is gearing up for another war as we speak, maybe god will do the same for them?

pearlthesquirrel
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pearlthesquirrel 11/16/12 - 02:31 pm
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12 in 22.5
Unpublished

Here we go again....the Ed Payne, M.D. Chronicles prints ANOTHER one of his letters. As my title indicates, that's 12 letters in a period of 22.5 months - I mean, if FOX NEWS isn't "fair and balanced," The Augusta Comical certainly is. And that's his letters that DO get printed - how many does he send in that DON'T get printed? Does anybody else (a.k.a. "the other side") get as much pub as this cat? Every one of his letters is the same but different - that is - us heathens are all going to burn in hell - wherever that is, because nobody has ever proven and shown me where hell is located. I hope you're all sitting down because I'm about to agree with Ed Payne (blasphemy!). EDUCATION DOES REQUIRES VALUES! How about diligence, hard-work, a stick-with-it attitude, seriousness, studying, dedication, punctuality, critical-thinking, and about 100 more. What does "religion in school" have to do with it? Everytime E.P. writes something he "trashes" ASU yet he tells you he goes there or has gone there....what's up with that? Where I come from that's called hypocrisy. If you sleep 8 hours a day (8 x 7 = 56) and you subtract time in school (8 x 5 = 40) and add them together (56 + 40 = 96) and subtract that from the 168 hours in one week (168 - 96 = 72), that leaves anybody and everybody with 72 hours per week to practice / teach / proselytize their brand of religion to their kids if they so choose. Let's see, if my math is correct. E.P. averages a letter in the paper every 57 days, so, that puts him on schedule for about January 10th or 11th, 2013. In the words of N.Y. Jets linebacker Bart Scott when asked about facing the Pittsburgh Steelers in the next weeks playoffs - "Can't wait!"

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 02:35 pm
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UNC

nil: my bet is that to the extent your son is truly a critical thinker, he got it from UNCCH, one of the nation's finest PUBLIC SECULAR universities. It may be that this experience made him aware of some potential shortcomings his earlier Christian education. America's great PUBLIC SECULAR universities can claim credit for in effect performing interventions in the lives of young men and women graduates of parochial schools....

KSL
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KSL 11/16/12 - 03:17 pm
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eel the seer

How do you know what the son is thinking and why?

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/16/12 - 03:32 pm
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I don't...

KSL: Just playing around a bit. Some students who have attended parochial schools retain their religious values when they later attend a PUBLIC SECULAR college or university, but many do not. To the extent that many of them lose the ideas they picked up in Christian schools, ideas that pass as "science," they are better off. To the extent they lose certain moral judgements learned in Christian schools, judgements about women, gays and lesbians, and others, the better off we all are.

KSL
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KSL 11/16/12 - 09:08 pm
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Do you have factual

Do you have factual information to back up your statements or are you just offering your opinion? It makes a difference.

GGpap
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GGpap 11/17/12 - 12:49 am
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Dr. Payne writes, "by almost

Dr. Payne writes, "by almost any definition. Our schools today not only champion anti-Christian values, but also consider Christian values contemptible, ridiculous and dangerous."

I would suggest that the Christian values the Dr. believes come from Christian teachings are those that come from "irrational" thinking rather than the "criitical" thinking we would all prefer to see our students exposed to in any learning environment.

GGpap

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