We should judge to avoid sin

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I want to commend Catholic guest columnist Paul Rosenthal for his informative column regarding the election (“Voting your faith in 2012: Social justice, abortion and apples,” Nov. 4), and about some who were rightfully described as “fake” Catholics. One cannot be pro-choice and Catholic.

Yet, many of us witnessed professed Catholic television pundits, during the election, who would perhaps fit into the category of “Catholics in Name Only.”

Joseph O’Connell asserted in his letter (“Writer should ‘judge not’,” Nov. 6) that Mr. Rosenthal was judging another’s soul. Instead, Mr. Rosenthal was rightfully judging another’s actions. Jesus, Himself, calls for this formal judgment on the part of the Church in Matthew 18:15-18.

We cannot judge a person’s state of soul, of course, or their thoughts or motives. Yet, we are to judge one’s actions. We are to make proper judgments to admonish a sinner to encourage him to repent. That is the goal: to save the sinner’s soul. We are to make judgments of behavior, attitudes, and ideas in order to protect our loved-ones and ourselves from danger. We are to avoid people who practice dangerous and sinful behaviors. We cannot avoid them until and unless a judgment has been made that such people are those who the Bible tells us to avoid.

The idea that we are not to judge is a doctrine of error. Satan loves for us to think that we are not to judge! Satan wants us to avoid making judgments. If he can convince us of this, sin can abound without criticism, and we could continue in our sin without accountability.

If Christians would like a glimpse of what it may be like after President Obama completes his assault on our religious liberties, I would encourage all to view the film/DVD For Greater Glory. This true story and inspirational movie depicts how the corrupt Mexican government, from 1926 to 1929, attempted to suppress the religious liberties of Catholics who resided there. The Cristeros family fought back against religious persecution in an uprising and counter-revolution for their love of Christ.

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Fundamental_Arminian
1871
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Fundamental_Arminian 11/14/12 - 04:58 am
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A good warning is an act of love and requires good judgment.

    Yet, we are to judge one’s actions. We are to make proper judgments to admonish a sinner to encourage him to repent. That is the goal: to save the sinner’s soul (Susan Maria Beckworth).

Very good advice. It's an act of love to warn people on the wrong path, and sound judgment is necessary for issuing good warnings. We hope the warnings will help people avoid being condemned on Judgment Day.

It's unloving not to warn the wayward; in fact, we can wind up with their blood on our hands. The apostle Paul was careful in this matter, for he told the Ephesian believers, "I am innocent of the blood of all of you, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God" (Acts 20:26-27).

shrimp for breakfast
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shrimp for breakfast 11/14/12 - 05:55 am
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I do not agree

I am a firm believer that I should never judge a persons faith. I'm sorry but a persons faith is his and his only.
If you believe in golden calves I have no business telling you that you're wrong.
Some of you will say that I'm going to hell. The difference is that I would never tell you that you that your beliefs are wrong.If anything I will support you in any way and tell you I love you but you will never catch me telling someone they are a sinner or that their beliefs are wrong. That would mean that I am judging you and I'm not God so I have no business interfering in your faith or lack of.

loblolly
469
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loblolly 11/14/12 - 07:03 am
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Catholicism
Unpublished

is in serious decline. Obama won the catholic vote. Why would Americans listen to foreigners residing in Italy? I guess threatening excommunication is the old Catholic way, but it seems American Catholics are steadily tuning them out. Good for us!

crkgrdn
2287
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crkgrdn 11/14/12 - 07:39 am
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A letter written out of love

We have been blessed with many gifts, two among them are the gift of faith and the gift of love.
Does one truly show love for another if he does not help them avoid destructive behavior? This notion of being non-judgmental along with the other notion that it is their lifestyle only serves to excuse ourselves from being engaged in the quest for what is good, true and beautiful.

loblolly
469
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loblolly 11/14/12 - 07:54 am
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Thank goodness our
Unpublished

Thank goodness our forefathers had the good sense to separate church and state.

soapy_725
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soapy_725 11/14/12 - 08:10 am
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reprobate? not knowing truth from a lie
Unpublished

God's word says you are already judged. Not by your fellowman, but by God.

"Don't reach into that fire it will burn you." Hate or concern?
"Don't fall in that pit." Hate or concern?
"Don't drink that poison." Hate or concern?
"Don't play in the middle of the interstate." Hate or concern?
"Don't give up your eternal soul for a moment of pleasure." Hate?

1But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good,
4traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; 5holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. 6For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts, 7ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8And even as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also withstand the truth. Men corrupted in mind, reprobate concerning the faith.

effete elitist liberal
3191
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effete elitist liberal 11/14/12 - 08:22 am
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Saint Susan Maria???

The Pope should seriously consider making Ms. Beckworth the newest
saint of the Roman Catholic Church. She would fit in perfectly with a religious organization whose main business presumes to tell others how to live their lives.

soapy_725
44121
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soapy_725 11/14/12 - 08:26 am
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Just last week someone remarked
Unpublished

that Petraeus would be an excellent choice to run for POTUS in 2016. A military man. A strong man. A leader of men in a just cause. The socialist totalitarians must have been nearby listening?

And just wait for the "non judgmental folks" to start judging. Just don't judge their wrong doings. It is hilarious.

Democrats have no morals, no God, so they cannot be judged.
Republican have some morals, a God, so they must be judged.

Looks as if logic would say, get rid of God and things will work much smoother for mankind.

soldout
1283
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soldout 11/14/12 - 08:30 am
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we tell would we are

We don't have to judge who folks are because if we let them talk they tell us who they are. If they tell us they vote for the pro-death party then we know who they are. They put self over God and are takers instead of givers. If someone shows us that; then we need to try to save them from Hell. All of us do what we believe and the rest is just talk. Christains need to be much bolder and control the language and call sin, sin. Jesus was not PC, called people what they were and loved them. If you love someone you won't let them go to hell without reminding them of their choice and the joy and peace of having a relationship with the creator of the universe and having His power living inside of you. You can't beat that deal! In the troubled times coming everyone needs Christ as their source. He won't give out of blessings and won't steal from others to bless you. If there is a blessing in giving a drink of water to a prophet of God; then what is the result of voting for one who promotes the death of the unborn and celebrates the homosexual sin. More and more now have the slave mindset with government being the slave master. Unfortunately the government is giving out of money to maintain the slaves so abortion and homosexually are encouraged to cut the costs. No one can be free if they keep voting for slavery to a government. That young black lady who wrtoe the article a few days ago in the Edgefield paper has it figured out but most other folks do not.

Fiat_Lux
16442
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Fiat_Lux 11/14/12 - 04:20 pm
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Better go take down all the road signs

because we sure don't want to warn people about any dangerous road conditions ahead or limit their choice about how they might want to drive by giving them the benefit of other people's experiences on the same route.

No, certainly not. Let them find out for themselves, even if it's after waking up in their coffins, or standing over the coffin of someone they dearly love.

Who do we think we are telling people what we've seen? Humph.

(Are some of you totally unable to recognize sarcasm?)

RMSHEFF
18749
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RMSHEFF 11/14/12 - 08:49 am
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"You will Know them by their fruit"

Shrimp for breakfast, You may indeed believe you should not judge but that is your "human opinion" and is not Biblical. If you believe the Bible is the word of God then your "opinion" stand in opposition to His word. In your example, if a person put his faith in a "golden calf" and God word tells us there is only one way to Him, through His Son Jesus Christ and also tell us to spread that word to others and we neglect to do so then we have sinned. Hell is very real place and the most unloving thing a Christian can do is to sit in silence when those around him are perishing for a lack of knowledge.This does not mean to try to force people to believe but just to tell them the truth and let Gods Spirit act. If you are not a Christian my words will fall empty to you.

Jon Lester
2480
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Jon Lester 11/14/12 - 08:50 am
3
7
If you have to remind yourself what constitutes "sin,"
Unpublished

as if you wouldn't know any other way, then something is wrong already, and it's even more obvious to the rest of us when it moves you to advocate for the supremacy of your own faith. Others of us maintain a solid moral core without the negative reinforcement of guilt and fear.

faithson
5527
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faithson 11/14/12 - 08:58 am
3
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'Satan loves for us to think'

Here we go again, some dank spiritual personality goading us to have abortions so we can stand with him against all that is good in the universe. I personally take responsibility for my 'sins', decisions I made that were sinful, not some entity. The Jews call it the 'evil inclination' which all of us must deal with. Arguments for orthodoxy are always apocalyptic, fearing constituents into submission. It works for those who 'fear' a Universal Creator who has a chalk board and is keeping track, it has little effect on those who have faith in a Loving and merciful Father and Son and desire to do Their WILL. This mixing of theology with nationalism is not being supported by the majority of Americans, get over it.

faithson
5527
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faithson 11/14/12 - 09:06 am
3
3
free will

The primary injunction from above is 'free will', the choice of the good vs the choice of the evil, period. Many would take away this universal injunction as it applies to 'personal' choice to satisfy their confused philosophy of making laws to 'help' others by taking away their choices. (personal versus social, ie theft)

RMSHEFF
18749
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RMSHEFF 11/14/12 - 09:07 am
6
3
Jon Lester

You must realize that those of us who name Christ as our savior also believe that the Bible is the very Word of God and we are guided by the words therein. Gods word says there is only "one" way to Him...through His Son Jesus Christ. Not through Islam, Buddhism, mysticism or " maintaining a solid moral core without the negative reinforcement of guilt and fear". God said "not by works" We are saved by His Grace through Faith. By telling you these things I have done what He requires me to do and it is your choice to accept or reject this truth.

effete elitist liberal
3191
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effete elitist liberal 11/14/12 - 09:32 am
8
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duty???

All of you talking about the Christian "duty" to save souls? What about common good manners about minding your own business? I will never forget the guy who followed me to a parking lot where he asked me if I wanted to get down on my knees with him and pray for my immortal soul. I told him to ---- ---.

RMSHEFF
18749
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RMSHEFF 11/14/12 - 09:42 am
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That is your decision...

effete elitist liberal, You should have good manners and have told him "I am not interested" "no thanks" " leave me alone" etc. and I am sure he would have. At least he was not a "radical muslim", in which he would have blown you up for refusing Islam.

myfather15
56766
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myfather15 11/14/12 - 09:51 am
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@EEL

I actually don't believe your story of some random guy approaching you and asking to pray for your immortal soul. But, if it did happen, did you ever think this guy is a lunatic, and not a common sense using Christian? There are lots of crazy folks out here on both sides of the political and religious spectrum. Trust me, I know a couple guys personally, which are atheists that are completely bonkers. In fairness, I also know several Christian's personally that have a warped sense of reality when it comes to Christianity or any religion. How much common sense does it take to realize that the radical elements of each spectrum, don't represent the main branch.

I'm a strong Christian Warrior and I witness for Christ whenever I can. But I also know when it's appropriate. I will speak and witness God's Word to ANYONE, but if that persons doesn't want to hear it, I will move on quickly, without argument. I and those I know that witness, don't try to press our beliefs on anyone. But we will witness whenever we can. But I will not cast my pearls before swine, to have them tromped upon. If somone doesn't want to hear it, so be it. I do believe in FREE WILL, which is God's intent therefore he can hold each individual accountable for their own actions and decisions.

myfather15
56766
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myfather15 11/14/12 - 09:58 am
4
4
@RMSHEFF

Don't be silly; To be polite to a Christian would be against the typical liberal, God hating agenda from the hard line leftists. They want God removed from everything in life, so it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to remove it from our mouths as well.

I watched an interview of people leaving the polls on election day and saw what I believe to be one of the most honest liberals ever. A right leaning reporter was asking her why she voted for Obama and what Obama being elected would mean for Freedom. She answered "I know I'm talking to the enemy, but I don't have any idea what it would mean for freedom." He then told/asked her "I'm not the enemy, I thought peope on the left wanted to be more diversified and embrace people on the other side and with different beliefs." The woman answered "No, I don't believe that at all. We don't want to embrace the right. None of us want to embrace the right."

Bizkit
35576
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Bizkit 11/14/12 - 09:59 am
5
2
Christians can't save

Christians can't save souls-only Christ can. There is no collective salvation either but a choice of free will. I have mormons and jehova's witnesses come to my door all the time. I politely listen a bit or tell them I'm not interested. Big deal. You can get propositioned on Broad Street too-you can say yes or no too. Christianity and Islam are replicators as a central tenet is to spread the word (or Good News to some). Christians ram their faith down throats no more than the gay community ram gay marriage down everyone elses throat. Bit of irony there.

Bizkit
35576
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Bizkit 11/14/12 - 10:03 am
5
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Progressives think christians

Progressives think christians are either ignorant or delusional and intolerant. This is a belief by those ignorant of christianity, delusional to believe their way is the only way (hey I thought that was just christians), and have no tolerance for christians or their beliefs. I guess the mirror really does have two faces.

Fiat_Lux
16442
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Fiat_Lux 11/14/12 - 10:09 am
5
1
Warning someone that a bridge is out ahead

or telling them about free food is certainly oppressive and a violation of their free will.

Tullie
2930
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Tullie 11/14/12 - 10:27 am
5
1
effete elitist liberal said:

What about common good manners about minding your own business? I will never forget the guy who followed me to a parking lot where he asked me if I wanted to get down on my knees with him and pray for my immortal soul. I told him to ---- ---.

What did you do before he followed you to to the parking lot?

Retired Army
17513
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Retired Army 11/14/12 - 10:30 am
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Oh Boy!

Another LTE chosen to garner "hits" on the Comical's website.

OK, I'm a sucker. I'll play since I pay for the privilege here at the Chronicle.

But, let's keep it real simple.

1st I believe there is a God.

2cnd I know I'm not It.

3rd I know you aren't either.

4th The form of my conception of God is exactly as God wants me to believe. Otherwise, I would have no Free Will.

5th Believing that God's only word is only contained in a man written text of your choice is foolish. It is a slap in the face to a Loving God for His gift of free will. It's why we have things like a "New Testament" and revisions to existing testaments. It's why different sects, each insisting upon their moral dominance, exist. And by the way, have you ever noticed that each insists the other is the work of the Devil and worthy of eternal damnation? Come on admit it. There are more than a few of you who right now think my thinking on this is the work of the Devil.

This all points to one fact. Those of you who would insist that the majority of Americans should bend to your way of thinking are in fact advocating a Theocracy here in America. My question to you is, "How well has that worked in all of history." Point us all to a successful and thriving Theocracy. You seem to think we need your help, so give it. In the 4th century the Catholics allied themselves politically with the Roman Empire, compromising their faith to do so. How well has that worked out?

And be very careful with your rebuking. I may have to reference the Bible later on and I can.

RMSHEFF
18749
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RMSHEFF 11/14/12 - 10:38 am
3
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Heaven or Hell

What if I am right and Heaven and Hell are real places in which every person will spend eternity in one or the other. Those that choose not to believe will be looking back and asking why they were not warned of this place they now call home. Eternity is a very long time.

John 6: 44 Jesus said "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him.

seenitB4
97601
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seenitB4 11/14/12 - 10:43 am
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I believe you EEL...

Yes because I know that crap happens....also this crap happens too...

My husbands aunt lived in downtown Atlanta....elderly & sweet person...full of kindness for all.....well one day this nice looking couple came to her door---they just wanted to spread the goodness & loveof God with her & spread the oil of forgiveness over her house----well they kinda burst inside & starting spraying the oil in each room.....she was in her 80s & really couldn't stop them....
Lo & behold when they left she noticed her $$$ from her soc sec check was missing.....I guess they needed it to buy more oil....
YEH I believe EEL....it happens.

Bizkit
35576
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Bizkit 11/14/12 - 11:10 am
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" Believing that God's only

" Believing that God's only word is only contained in a man written text of your choice is foolish. " RA what is the difference in you creating a "God" in your words. Both foolish by your own account. No "God" has set forth on earth lately to say who they are so we have the Koran, Vedic text, Torah, Bible to explain. Those books define their God-everyone else is just making one up to suit their own beliefs.

effete elitist liberal
3191
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effete elitist liberal 11/14/12 - 11:13 am
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to the curious

To those of you anxious to "blame the victim," I was sitting at a table in a local restaurant / bar with a group of friends and a few others who had joined the conversation. Among them was the guy who later followed me to the parking lot. At one point the conversation turned to religion and I expressed my views, which were obviously unsympathetic. I do not recall whether parking-lot guy contributed any thoughts of his own. When I left, he followed me to the parking lot. So he was not "some random guy." I was not polite, at all. But he had to know I would not be receptive to his approach and had the good manners to leave me alone.
Frankly, the whole thing was creepy. I have exactly the same reaction to those pasty-faced young Mormons when they come to my door asking me if I know where my "eternal soul" will end up. I am just slightly less impolite to them than I was to parking-lot guy....

Bizkit
35576
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Bizkit 11/14/12 - 11:13 am
1
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The only religion promoting a

The only religion promoting a theocracy is Islam. What people do is often independent of a faith-like the Army of God which basically defiles and warps the whole concept.

RMSHEFF
18749
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RMSHEFF 11/14/12 - 11:18 am
3
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You don't Believe the Bible

Retired Army, You state "Believing that God's only word is only contained in a man written text of your choice is foolish". a) Man did not write the Bible. b) It is the inspired word of God. "Your choice of text" ??? God's word has not changed and it is contained in the 66 books of the Bible. You do not believe in "absolute" truth and that open the door to anything. As for, as you say, "all the revisions". I assume you are referring to different "translations" and no matter which one you choose they all have the same tenants of Faith and salvation. God spoke through His word and He did not mumble so we cannot understand Him. His word is clear and I am sorry the truth is so unclear for you. You cannot see the truth unless God reveals it to you. ohn 6: 44 Jesus said "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draw him.

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