Food chain against gays

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Your editorial (“Chicken divine,” Aug. 3) is wrong to assert that “President and Chief Operating Officer Dan Cathy merely reaffirmed in an interview that the Chick-fil-A family stands for the biblical definition of marriage.” Actually, it goes much further than that. You neglected to mention that the owners of Chick-fil-A have donated millions of dollars to organizations that are actively working to deny basic civil rights to gay people.

The owners have a right to believe in any religious nonsense they may choose, and nobody in the gay community ever said that they do not. However, they do not have a right to force their Bibles and personal belief system down the throats of the rest of us. We are supposed to be a nation of civil, not religious, laws. But of course that little detail has been completely lost in this yet one more, ludicrous battle.

Will this bigoted nonsense ever end? The owners crossed the line when they decided to act, by donating vast sums of money, to deny the civil rights of a certain group of people who happen to have been born gay. Imagine the uproar from conservatives if an opposing group were trying to do the same thing to them, that they feel entitled to do to gays.

And as to the “biblical definition of marriage,” isn’t that blood-soaked book filled with the polygamy, incest, adultery, murder and rape of its cast of characters when they’re not being holy? Why should we trust their opinions when it comes to marriage? But if the religious zealots really believe in following the Bible, shouldn’t they be picking up weaponds instead of chicken sandwiches, and using them against gays to put them to death? I mean, that’s biblical too! And it’s really what all the religious hypocrites, including the hate-filled Truett Cathy, really want to do.

Denial of human rights to other human beings, which the owners of this filthy corporation are seeking to do, goes way beyond simply expressing what you believe in. There. Was that so difficult?

Hating on gay people and promoting the denial of their basic freedoms is a strange way of “detecting hints of love, commitment, dedication and faith, with a strong taste of freedom.” Actually, it’s downright twisted. And it’s just the type of “freedom and love” that belongs in the closet. What an embarrassing editorial.

Joni Ellsworth

North Augusta, S.C.

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shrimp for breakfast
5422
Points
shrimp for breakfast 08/09/12 - 01:01 am
11
14
What I thought of Joni.

When I heard he believed in the "Biblical sense of marriage" the first thing that crossed my mind was the word concubine. I believe that was an acceptable practice back then.
The thing that really gets me though is that so many people think it's a learned behavior. BS!
Out of my many gay friends men and women all of them knew what they were before puberty and it scared the hell out of them.
All I know is that the only reason they want to get married is because they love each other.
LOVE!
I could go on and on but what's the use. Someone will start quoting that tired old Liviticus verse to me again or they'll find some more in First Corinthians and Timothy for their reason to deny two people in love the right to marry.

specsta
6355
Points
specsta 08/12/12 - 11:43 am
12
13
The Blind Leaders

I'm not sure what is going on with "Christians" these days. They seem to have forgotten the concept of "loving your neighbor as yourself" and "judge not, lest you be judged". I guess all of that has been thrown out the stained-glass window.

Instead we get hate-mongering condemnations of those whom they feel don't live up to their Biblical standards. The funny thing is, those standards they chatter about are pick-and-choose.

Christians keep blabbing about the "sanctity of marriage" and "marriage is one woman, one man" but the very Bible they quote does not define marriage like that. In the Bible, men had multiple wives, concubines, slaves who functioned as marital partners, etc. And some of these wives were very young girls. Christians conveniently forget about those examples of marriage in the Bible.

Christianity is in a very sad state these days. Judgmental attitudes, nationalism, condemnation of those who believe differently, and the circus-like display of their spirituality has become the norm. No wonder a popular bumper sticker reads. "Lord, save me from your followers".

The ship has been wrecked, the car driven off a cliff. Unless Christians really do a serious self-evaluation of the mess they have created, living like Pharisees, blinded by self-righteousness, they will have missed the true calling of salvation - "to love the Lord God with all of their heart, mind and soul - and to love their neighbors as themselves". Everything else is just man-made dogma, also known as garbage.

carcraft
25149
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carcraft 08/09/12 - 05:43 am
15
4
Ah yes, lets change the

Ah yes, lets change the subject! In the beginning God created man and women and the husband shall leave his family and the women leave her family and the two shall become one. That is the Biblical idea. The concubines, multiple wives, etc. never really worked out well and was against God’s will and the stories are to show the folly of man’s ways. When Abraham took his wife’s servant he created a race that has been at war with the Jewish people ever since. When David took multiple wives he had rape, plots against his throne, and his attempted murder and the loss of his son. Solomon created problems for himself with his lusting. The left, instead of understanding the admonition of scripture wishes to us it to even further pervert God’s ideal of one man and one women! Please read Mark 10:1 - 12 It is unloving not to remind people God has a standard and the results of violating that standard is God’s judgment just as David, Solomon and Abraham found out!

nofanofobama
6801
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nofanofobama 08/09/12 - 06:22 am
9
5
gotta love the biblical

gotta love the biblical scholars that cite 1-verse and condem christians** they define the christian belief even though they dont know it and then condem christians for not living up to their definition...2-the reason why in the bible there are men and women who have less than stellar lives is because its a record of God dealing with his people thru grace in history....we are sinner Gods grace is greater than our sins..

nofanofobama
6801
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nofanofobama 08/09/12 - 06:57 am
8
3
as bobby d wrote in slow

as bobby d wrote in slow train coming..you either got belief or you dont and there is no neutral ground...

shrimp for breakfast
5422
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shrimp for breakfast 08/09/12 - 07:00 am
12
5
Yes but...

If the same sex couple who want to marry are not Christian then no amount of Biblical verse is going to matter to them.
Just because you are telling them it's wrong according to your faith does not mean that they will appease you by living up to your standards.
If you're a Christian you would want to do what your faith orders you too do which I commend, but you cannot force your values onto someone who does not have the same beliefs as yourself.
If two people who love each other so much that they would like to get married should be afforded that chance.

avidreader
3089
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avidreader 08/09/12 - 07:19 am
15
0
Stalemate!

In chess, the two players shake hands and walk away when a stalemate occurs. The Gay community cannot tolerate anyone who stands up and voices an opinion that is negative to the "cause". On the other hand, many Christians are overbearing and too quick to judge. Some actually step far beyond the boundaries of civility.

As I see it, a stalemate has occurred. Shake hands and walk away. Mr. Cathy has the right to believe whatever he wants. He also has the right to donate money to whomever he choses, within legal parameters.

Gay marriage is OK with me but so are Christian principles. Neither of the two interfere with the quality of my life. Buy a chicken sandwich, or don't. All Americans have the right to an opinion.

InChristLove
22459
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InChristLove 08/09/12 - 08:04 am
12
4
"The owners crossed the line

"The owners crossed the line when they decided to act, by donating vast sums of money, to deny the civil rights of a certain group of people who happen to have been born gay"

First, it has not yet been proven that gays are born gay, but what I want to ask the writer is....you feel that Mr. Cathy crossed the line and is a bigot because he has personally made a donation to organization that oppose homosexuality....

Have homosexuals not also crossed the line and are bigots because they donate their personal money to gay organizations that most hetersexuals do not believe in.

palmetto1008
9782
Points
palmetto1008 08/09/12 - 07:36 am
2
5
I understand your sentiments,
Unpublished

I understand your sentiments, avid reader. However, in a chess game, the players come to the table both bound by and benefiting from the same rules of the game.

InChristLove
22459
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InChristLove 08/09/12 - 07:37 am
9
1
It amazes me that there are

It amazes me that there are some who THINK they know God and His ways, and continue to wallow in the rules and regulations of the Old Covenant and have failed to read the New Testament and rejoice in the forgiveness of sin, the freedom from the sacrifices and the wonderful saving Grace, Mercy, and Love of My wonderful Heavenly Father.

shrimp for breakfast
5422
Points
shrimp for breakfast 08/09/12 - 07:38 am
5
1
Good answer

Avidreader.
You hit the proverbial nail on the head. Thank you!

Angie H
4300
Points
Angie H 08/09/12 - 07:39 am
12
1
It amazes me the number of

It amazes me the number of people who attempt to use biblical verse to argue with those who don't believe the bible. You are wasting your time unless you have a common frame of reference.

TParty
6003
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TParty 08/09/12 - 07:45 am
7
11
Christians crack me up.

Christians crack me up. "Science has yet to prove people are born gay, so I'm going to dismiss gay folks" versus "Science has yet to prove god, but I'm going to have faith in it anyways because that part of science does not fit my narrative."

Angie H
4300
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Angie H 08/09/12 - 07:48 am
6
0
Not all Christians believe

Not all Christians believe that, TParty.

InChristLove
22459
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InChristLove 08/09/12 - 08:14 am
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2
TParty, you are correct

TParty, you are correct Science has not proven gays are born homosexual and that God exist.....but I do have faith because of personal experience that God exist.....I do not have faith that homosexuals are born gay because I do not have any experience with it.

So you have faith that gays are born homosexual because I'm assuming you have experienced gay feelings and know without a doubt that people are gay from birth, but you refuse to believe that according to God's Word, homosexuality (which is sexual immorality) is a sin.

On the other side you ridicule my believe in God because you haven't exerienced Him and expect me to believe in born homosexuality even though I haven't experienced it and then ridicule and degrade me because of it where I have never ridiculed you. My belief and opinion are mind and your opinion and belief are yours.

Yeah, sounds like no

TParty
6003
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TParty 08/09/12 - 08:25 am
6
6
"I do not have faith that

"I do not have faith that homosexuals are born gay because I do not have any experience with it."

Of course not!! You were not born gay!!

"So you have faith that gays are born homosexual because I'm assuming you have experienced gay feelings"

That's not how it works! I am not gay, because I was not born gay- not that there is anything wrong with that. There would no experiencing of gay feelings because it is not a choice. I can assume you're a straight person- and therefore you also would never have had gay feelings. You did not decide who you are attracted too. You may have picked qualities you admire in a person, but being attracted to the opposite sex was never a decision you had to figure out through trial and error, much like the attributes in a person. Because it's not a choice.

I ridicule everyone's powerful god- because all he needs to do is get on youtube or something- to get his message out and prove to everyone his existence. Don't show up to some guy in a desert, who is probably dehydrated, and speak as a bush that does not burn.

palmetto1008
9782
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palmetto1008 08/09/12 - 08:27 am
7
10
You are really grasping for
Unpublished

You are really grasping for rationales this morning, ICL. Even for you.

Fundamental_Arminian
1833
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Fundamental_Arminian 08/09/12 - 08:33 am
7
4
Born how?

    The owners crossed the line when they decided to act, by donating vast sums of money, to deny the civil rights of a certain group of people who happen to have been born gay (Joni Ellsworth).

Why are homosexuals inconsistent with their "born gay" arguments? If right or wrong for an individual depended on how the individual was born, shouldn't gays reject the transgenders among their ranks? After all, science has proved that people are born male or female.

No, the argument about being born gay is just a pretext. What's more, it ignores how sinful tendencies can exist from birth. "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline will drive it far from him" (Proverbs 22:15 Amplified Bible). We know the importance of disciplining our children, don't we? We wouldn't justify unruly, foolish behavior in children simply because they were born that way, would we? I hope not.

The misleading criticism gays heap on the Cathys reminds me of our Lord's teaching, "Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you" (Matthew 5:11-12 English Standard Version).

csrareader
1287
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csrareader 08/09/12 - 08:29 am
12
0
"You neglected to mention

"You neglected to mention that the owners of Chick-fil-A have donated millions of dollars to organizations that are actively working to deny basic civil rights to gay people."

Simple answer for you. Don't eat there. Is that easy enough for you to understand? As for the donations to organizations working to deny basic civil rights, Chick-fil-A is a huge supporter of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. I didn't know that they now fit the definition of a "hate group." I don't care what two people do in the privacy of their home, and I don't care what corporation executives express as their personal opinion, and I certainly don't care what corporations do with their money. They earned it, and can use it as they see fit. If we as consumers don't like it, we have an easy choice - go somewhere else.

Fiat_Lux
15043
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Fiat_Lux 08/09/12 - 08:44 am
9
3
Oh, great...

Another waste of paper and ether so Joni can share her outraged non-wisdom.

How is it that Dan Cathy can simply answer a question put to him about his personal values and ole Joni calls that forcing it onto others (down our throats, no less), yet she expects that her unsolicited harangue is perfectly acceptable, even laudable?

Get a clue, Joni. You'll never change these values for the vast majority of people, no matter how much you yell at them and malign them. Your best hope is in getting laws changed so that the next generations end up having your hopelessly destructive values force-fed to them at public schools. It already is the steady diet offered by virtually all the mainstream and non-mainstream media.

We're already watching our culture start to circle the drain. Yours is just one more toe twirling the death spiral.

lovingthesouth72
1368
Points
lovingthesouth72 08/09/12 - 08:53 am
8
3
A - He is not against gays.

A - He is not against gays. He is just not in favor of gay marriage. Those are two separate issues. He has made it quite clear that his company does not discriminate against gays. They can work there, and they can buy food there.
B - This is his private company: he can support whatever cause he chooses to support. In this case he supports the traditional moral definition of marriage (between a man and a woman) as it has been for thousands of years in society.
C - It was quite obvious by the thousands upon thousands upon thousands that came out in support of the chain, that the American people support the traditional moral view of marriage as well. No need to take a poll.
C - Marriage has been and always will be between a man and a woman. If gays want to live together, then fine, but do not expect it to be called "marriage" because it is not. Marriage exists as it has since the beginning for the benefit of each spouse and that of the children that their sexual union will bring into this world. A black cat will always be a black cat, regardless of how many times you try to bleach it. In other words, you cannot change what is a fact and part of nature.

rebellious
20621
Points
rebellious 08/09/12 - 08:54 am
8
4
Same thoughts, different day

While I don't agree with discriminating based on sexual preference, I diametrically oppose the push to normalize what I consider deviant and unnatural behavior. And while I am sure this will enrage all of the tolerant on these boards, let me state what you do in your own home, as long as no one is harmed, is your business. But don't expect me to embrace (no pun intended) that behavior when you choose to bring it outside of your home. I call it morality creep, like slowly raising he temperature of the water with a frog inside will boil him to death, so the gradual erosion of our country's moral values cannot lead to a positive result. Anyone can study the decline of Rome, and while there were many contributing factors, the evidence exists of the same type of moral decadence. "Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it"

lovingthesouth72
1368
Points
lovingthesouth72 08/09/12 - 09:02 am
6
3
That being said ... does this

That being said ... does this mean gay people are bad or wrong, or evil? No, not if they choose to live a life of virtue, chastity and love and service of neighbor. What people need to understand is that it is the gay lifestyle that is condemned (not by Christians - by the way - but by the mere fact of living a gay lifestyle). And please remember that it is not Christians that judge gays to anywhere, but rather that gay people bring down judgment upon themselves when they choose to live the gay lifestyle. Now, you can choose to not believe that. But it's still a fact. Just like you can choose to not believe you have cancer and live your life as if all is ok, when in reality you do have cancer. We need to embrace our gay relatives and friends as they are, but also we need to remind them that Jesus told us not to judge, but he also told the sinful woman to "go, and sin no more". So, the buck does not stop at not judging, but rather in changing the lifestyle.

InChristLove
22459
Points
InChristLove 08/09/12 - 09:03 am
7
4
TParty, if you are not gay,

TParty, if you are not gay, have never experienced gay feelings, how do you know that gays are born homosexual and it is not a choice they make?

"I ridicule everyone's powerful god- because all he needs to do is get on youtube or something- to get his message out and prove to everyone his existence"

Well He could if that's the way He wanted us to come and follow Him but you know yourself that there would be some who would say it was a hokes and wouldn't believe it true. He shows Himself to us every day when we wake up, and still people do not believe so what makes you think it He shows himself on youtube anyone would believe.

InChristLove
22459
Points
InChristLove 08/09/12 - 09:06 am
7
4
palmetto.....I'm grasphing

palmetto.....I'm grasphing for rationales? Guess you should know, you're the expert. I have no need to ration out anything. People can believe what they wish, however wrong I might think it is. A day of reckoning is coming and Truth will reign.

burninater
9396
Points
burninater 08/09/12 - 09:12 am
6
3
If right or wrong for an

If right or wrong for an individual depended on how the individual was born, shouldn't gays reject the transgenders among their ranks? After all, science has proved that people are born male or female.
---------
This is factually incorrect. Science has proved the opposite, that "male" and "female" are not hard and fast distinctions, and that both genetic and developmental intermediate categories exist. In addition to the xx (female) and xy (male) genetic states, there are variations where individuals are born xxy, or xyy, for example. Developmental variability exists as well, where individuals are born with external reproductive anatomy of one sex, but the internal gonads of the other. In many cases, one of these intermediate state infants is "assigned" a sex based on the doctors' and parents' judgement of which of the "two" sexes the infant seems closest to, and brought closer to that category through hormone therapy and reconstructive surgeries. The idealized categories of "male" and "female" don't agree scientifically with the complex and messy reality of genetics and human development.

carcraft
25149
Points
carcraft 08/09/12 - 09:28 am
3
2
Well wwe had two people

Well wwe had two people opposing Christians cite the Bible then they say oh I don't believe in the Bible! Then why referance it? Where is there a right to get married? Marriage is considered under law as a contract and nobody has a right to enter into a contract unless it meets the legal perameters of contract law. A minor can't enter into a contract, contract can't be enterd into under false premisses etc. So please show where there is a "right " to marry anyone!

Dixieman
14327
Points
Dixieman 08/09/12 - 09:31 am
5
1
Sigh

No one is going to persuade anyone else to change his or her mind with the posts here. I have no problem with people being gay but wish they would get out of our faces and cool down a bit. Also please answer this: If gay marriage becomes legal, how can polygamy be denied? Polygamy has been going on for thousands of years (much longer that gay marriage) and is more widely practiced in the world today than gay marriage (i.e. Muslim countries and parts of Asia). Is the number 2 sacred to gay people? If so, why? If having more than one spouse is part of my sexual nature and essential to my happiness and equal treatment, how can you deny me the right to marry multiple spouses if gay marriage becomes law? And is this what we want for our society? (I will save my bestiality argument for another day).

blues550
374
Points
blues550 08/09/12 - 09:58 am
0
1
Talk About Hatred
Unpublished

My, my, my the hatred you spew Joni. And they dare call us haters?

shrimp for breakfast
5422
Points
shrimp for breakfast 08/09/12 - 10:01 am
4
2
As I said earlier...

I have many gay friends both male and female who assured me that they were born that way and how scary it was to have these feelings. Some of them actually denied them for a long time. One friend thought he'd grow out of it so all through college he never had one date. It wasn't until he was over thirty years old that he finally realized his feelings were not going to change and he finally accepted who he was. He said if God wanted him to be heterosexual he would have been and he prayed and prayed begging God for answers. The man stayed a virgin until he was 37 years old when he met his partner who had just finished Seminary school. Both he and his partner feel that God brought them together. They have been together for 28 years and have adopted three beautiful children. These are people I trust to tell me the truth so I believe them.
Now I have no idea if God brought them together but I do know they have been deeply in love since the beggining.
They are very happy and contribute a lot to society.
I am a heterosexual with kids of my own and deep down I am happy. I also think God brought my wife and I together.
I just don't see God playing matchmaker but I do believe he cares about each and every one of us.
When it comes to LOVE, God is the Master. Yeah I know He is the Master over everything but I think He enjoys us and is pleased when we try to please Him. He's been putting up with my prayers for over half a century so I know He also has a sense of humor.
AS far as His take on homosexual behavior I don't know I've never talked to Him about it. Anyway someday I'll figure out what I'm talking about because at the moment I have no idea.

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