Illegal aliens lack pride in U.S.

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The United States was founded by immigrants – yes, immigrants – but these immigrants wanted their own country with a commonsense governing body.

These immigrants left countries that imprisoned them, taxed them into poverty and stripped them of their religious beliefs, dignity, dreams, hopes and aspirations. Some of them were enslaved and managed to escape to the colonies for a better life, a life of their choosing. Some sold themselves into servitude just for the chance to go to the New World. The colonists had to stick together, work together to survive.

The Revolutionary War defined who we were by defeating England. In World War I and World War II, we fought for the lives we wanted, and defeated the Nazis and Japanese. Those victories by the military are why you are speaking English and not another language.

Immigrants today want a better life like the colonists, but there is a huge difference. These immigrants come to America illegally for jobs and handouts. America is a great country, they say – go to America, and the government will take care of you. With no allegiance to America, these immigrants are here for the money and our taxpayer-dollar benefits.

These illegals were given freedom without having to fight for it, so it means nothing to them. For Americans with roots here, a family going back to World War I and World War II, freedom is a way of life. We want to pledge allegiance to the flag and place our hands over our hearts, salute the flag and sing God Bless America – we raised our children that way. Patriotism was embedded into our children at home and at school. Patriots are willing to die for and contribute to our country – to be givers and not takers.

Illegals wrap themselves in their native countries’ flags. Where is the patriotism to the U.S.A.? Our country is going in the wrong direction. The school systems don’t allow any show of patriotism or religious beliefs thanks to the progressives and liberals. If attitudes do not change; if we don’t close our borders; if we don’t stop being politically correct; if we don’t elect a president who was raised and grew up in the United States; and if the government doesn’t stop spending/throwing our money away, we will have the fundamental change that President Obama wants.

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burninater
9396
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burninater 06/11/12 - 11:04 am
1
8
"spew that responsibility

"spew that responsibility crap" ...

Classic.Those darn kids, spewing that "responsibility crap"! Why, somebody ought to ... Oh, is that camera on? I meant ... "what a friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear!"

Shea_Addams
1337
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Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 11:09 am
5
1
I wonder why liberals always
Unpublished

I wonder why liberals always want to hold people (southerners) responsible for things they didn't do and have no control over, yet never seem to want to be held responsible for the things they actually do? (or fail to do)

smokeysbandit
257
Points
smokeysbandit 06/11/12 - 11:17 am
6
1
I knew someone would take my

I knew someone would take my response out of context. Thanks burninater for not letting me down.

burninater
9396
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burninater 06/11/12 - 11:43 am
2
5
@smokey:Well, the context

@smokey:

Well, the context being what it was -- "Don't spew that responsibility crap" because people just did something awful that someone before them had already done -- it really doesn't make it any better. It's like saying only the first gang rapist should be held responsible ...

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 06/11/12 - 12:06 pm
8
1
If stating historical fact is

If stating historical fact is an "apology", then so be it. You can't change history, just how you choose to see it.

There were blacks who fought for and supported the Confederate Army. If the whole purpose was simply to keep blacks as slaves, do you think these courageous folks would have fought for a such a cause?

No one in their right mind would like to see slavery continued. Goodness, how we are grasping at the thinnest of straws to try and support our silly arguments.

burninater
9396
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burninater 06/11/12 - 12:15 pm
1
5
With so many white males

With so many white males conscripted and roughly 40% of its population unfree, the work required to maintain a functioning society in the CSA ended up largely on the backs of blacks.[22] Even Georgia's Governor Joseph E. Brown noted that "the country and the army are mainly dependent upon slave labor for support."[23] Slave labor was used in a wide variety of support roles, from infrastructure and mining, to teamster and medical roles such as hospital attendants and nurses.[24]

The idea of arming slaves for use as soldiers was speculated on from the onset of the war, but not seriously considered by Davis or others in his administration.[25] Though an acrimonious and controversial debate was raised by a letter from Patrick Cleburne[26] urging the Confederacy to raise black soldiers by offering emancipation, it would not be until Robert E. Lee wrote the Confederate Congress urging them that the idea would take serious traction. On March 13, 1865, the Confederate Congress passed General Order 14,[27] and President Davis signed the order into law. The order was issued March 23, but only a few African American companies were raised.[28] A company or two of black hospital workers was attached to a unit in Richmond, Virginia, shortly before the besieged southern capital fell.[28] A Confederate major later affirmed that the small number of soldiers mustered in Richmond in 1865 were "the first and only black troops used on our side."[28] However, there were varying accounts of black rebel troops. For instance the July 11, 1863 issue of the New York Herald reported: "...And after the battle of Gettysburg in July 1863, ...reported among the rebel prisoners were seven blacks in Confederate uniforms fully armed as soldiers..."

The numbers in brackets identify the source documents on the original page here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_Army#section_10

burninater
9396
Points
burninater 06/11/12 - 12:20 pm
4
4
Obviously, they couldn't have

Obviously, they couldn't have forced slaves to fight. How can you force a slave to do anything? And I really can't imagine any reason why someone WOULDN'T be running to sign up to defend the people that enslave you. It's just plain common sense.

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 06/11/12 - 12:28 pm
3
11
It's almost too easy to gauge

It's almost too easy to gauge posters' feeling on these topics. If you bring up race, slavery, Jim Crow, etc.. You immediately start getting attacked. Then you start getting excuses for these horrendous times. Then you get the "leave" comments. Of course there are exceptions, but seldom do you get a rational discussion of, yes they were horrible practices and whether or not attitudes and the times have really changed. With all of the defending, excuses and rationalization you get, the only conclusion is that, for the most part, they haven't. Many seem to almost have a yearning to return to those times. It's pretty darn sad.

howcanweknow
2306
Points
howcanweknow 06/11/12 - 12:41 pm
8
1
attack?

The only time anyone gets attacked on here is when they distort the truth. This happens because of : 1) ignorance, or 2) personal / political agenda

#1 can be excused, and can be treated via knowledge.

#2 cannot be fixed because so many refuse to admit the truth because it contradicts what they have convinced themselves they must believe.

howcanweknow
2306
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howcanweknow 06/11/12 - 12:49 pm
12
1
Up North

I've lived up North. I was shocked by what I found. It was by far the most segregated place I've ever seen. I never saw black and white folks together in the same location. Never. Also, I heard people openly make racial slurs and jokes about another race -- stuff that made me cringe; frankly, comments that I'd never really heard in the South.

So, based on my own personal experience, I think that in many ways the South is far more progressive on the idea of race relations than many regions of the North. I know that for certain, as I have witnessed it first-hand.

howcanweknow
2306
Points
howcanweknow 06/11/12 - 01:01 pm
11
1
Yes, Shea, and some are even

Yes, Shea, and some are even suggesting (demanding?) that we today pay "reparations" for slavery, even though no one alive is a slave or has ever owned a slave.

It boggles the mind what some folks think.

omnomnom
3964
Points
omnomnom 06/11/12 - 01:07 pm
2
6
yep. human trafficking

yep. human trafficking doesn't exist in the U.S.

certain politicians in other states haven't retained unpaid legal/illegal immigrants.

Shea_Addams
1337
Points
Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:09 pm
5
1
"It's almost too easy to
Unpublished

"It's almost too easy to gauge posters' feeling on these topics. If you bring up race, slavery, Jim Crow, etc.. You immediately start getting attacked. "

Techfan, you only get attacked when you blame someone today for the crimes of the past when they had nothing to do with it. NO ONE alive today was alive when there was slavery in the US, and very few are around that are responsible for Jim Crow, so why don't you stop blaming southerners for things they didn't do?

burninater
9396
Points
burninater 06/11/12 - 01:16 pm
2
5
I'm originally from the north

I'm originally from the north howcan, and you are absolutely right --segregation and racism are rampant. Also, many people don't know how unconsciously racist they are, since they don't confront it nearly as much as they do down here. (I mention the unconscious racism not because I'm a mind-reader, but because I've seen it myself in my parent's and grandparents' reactions to my sister's interracial marriage.)

However, the vocal Southern minority that actively celebrates the antebellum years and simultaneously apologizes for slavery creates a substantial image problem for the South (oh, it wasn't bad because the Africans did it first; oh, it wasn't bad because some slaves were conscripted).

Based on your expressions of faith on these forums howcan, I know that you fully understand repentance in its sincerest form. It's not enough just to say the words, you have to mean it in your heart. The mixed signals of reverence for the antebellum and apologies for slavery makes many feel that a large portion of Southerners really aren't that sorry about the history of slavery.

Also of very high significance to this debate is that racism and slavery are two entirely separate things. Racism doesn't necessarily imply that someone has no respect for my right to live my life freely as a human being. Slavery, and apologies for slavery, imply that a person isn't even viewed as a human being.

Shea_Addams
1337
Points
Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:18 pm
4
1
No one said it wasn't bad
Unpublished

No one said it wasn't bad because the African's did it first....just that the left never seems to place ANY blame there. Keep on distorting the truth....there are those who will buy into it.

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 06/11/12 - 01:18 pm
8
0
This type of conversation is

This type of conversation is exactly what the far left wants all of is to focus on. It's ridiculous. Slavery was wrong. It's been outlawed. The North and the South did and do wrong things continuously. Get over it. Their was no hero; just two political opposites using a group of people to further their own cause. Not much has changed.

allhans
23500
Points
allhans 06/11/12 - 01:20 pm
6
1
I think Tech fan should get

I think Tech fan should get on a web site in areas such as upper NY state and see what that are saying. It would be enlightening.

Shea_Addams
1337
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Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:20 pm
2
1
Pretty sure you can't be
Unpublished

Pretty sure you can't be "unconsciously racist." Subconsciously maybe.

justthefacts
21225
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justthefacts 06/11/12 - 01:21 pm
9
1
On Topic

Had the comments stayed on topic instead of being highjacked as an excuse to insult an entire region of the country, the "attacks" wouldn't have occurred. You don't think people are going to defend themselves against gross generalizations? LOL.

howcanweknow
2306
Points
howcanweknow 06/11/12 - 01:35 pm
10
1
You're right, Burni. The

You're right, Burni. The South definitely has an image problem -- and some of that is well-deserved. You can't defend the indefensible, and slavery was indefensible. Today, no one in their right mind would defend such a practice. But, neither can you deny that 150 years ago there were many in the South who looked upon slavery as a God-given right, and considered Blacks to be less than 100% a person compared to Whites. These folks were terribly wrong, and there is no apology for such ideas.

Being from the South, I take great pride in this region. I love it, and I love the people here. I prefer to live here, compared to the North. Yes, slavery was a mistake and it is good that it was purged. The Civil War was a necessary evil, I'm afraid, to right a great wrong.

But, I get very tired of hearing many folks generalize that all our southern ancestors were pro-slavery, when that is not the case. The history books tell us that the majority of southern soldiers did not own slaves, and were fighting to stop a perceived threat on their homes and home state. As the noted historian Shelby Foote recounts, a union soldier asked a confederate prisoner why they were fighting the war, and the confederate answered -- with no small amount of anger in his eyes -- "Because y'all are down here!" I wish to respect and honor that resolve in our southern ancestors -- but never to honor slavery. Heck, I know for a fact that some of my ancestors fought for the Union. Both the Blue and the Gray need to be honored, in my opinion.

As with many issues, maybe people come at it from 2 opposite sides: One wishing to honor and respect the noble sacrifices of ancestors, while others wish to condemn everything about the past to honor the memory of their ancestors. As is often case, the real truth, most likely, lies somewhere in the middle.

Again, let's forget the past and look to the future. There's no slavery now. There's no Confederacy. We're all just Americans, and there's more than enough problems to deal with today than to burn precious time and energy resurrecting problems from the past that really have no impact on us.

burninater
9396
Points
burninater 06/11/12 - 01:37 pm
2
5
This type of conversation is

This type of conversation is exactly what the far left wants all of is to focus on.
--------
Does everything need to be turned into some type of national political debate? Can't anybody talk about anything anymore and have it be about the actual topic?

Retired Army
17512
Points
Retired Army 06/11/12 - 01:38 pm
3
5
omnomom writes: "today we

omnomom writes: "today we salute wal*mart. they sell flags there."

Yeah, even if they are manufactured in Communist China.

Shea_Addams
1337
Points
Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:40 pm
4
1
Pretty sure illegal
Unpublished

Pretty sure illegal immigration IS a national political debate.

burninater
9396
Points
burninater 06/11/12 - 01:46 pm
1
7
Shea, that isn't what the

Shea, that isn't what the topic had turned into, and you know it.

Shea_Addams
1337
Points
Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:49 pm
4
0
Well...had southerners not
Unpublished

Well...had southerners not been insulted and attacked (the same generalizations that the very southerners are accused of), perhaps the topic could be followed better.............and you know it.

Retired Army
17512
Points
Retired Army 06/11/12 - 01:54 pm
1
9
Motives?

One has to wonder what the Native Americans had to say about "Illegal Immigrants".

And, is it just by coincidence that this illegal immigrant thing comes up when the emigre's happen to be yellow, black or brown?

Last and certainly not least from the mouth of the South:

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?documentprint=76

justthefacts
21225
Points
justthefacts 06/11/12 - 01:54 pm
5
1
Communist China

Some people like that. They love those countries who denounce capitalism and let the gov't control everything. A couple post on here regularly.

Shea_Addams
1337
Points
Shea_Addams 06/11/12 - 01:55 pm
3
1
Wow....MORE baseless
Unpublished

Wow....MORE baseless accusations of racism. RA do you see racism in EVERYTHING? BTW.... You DO know that making baseless accusations violates the posting policy? Better back it up before Sean pulls your post.

smokeysbandit
257
Points
smokeysbandit 06/11/12 - 01:56 pm
4
1
Hey Sean... exactly what was

Hey Sean... exactly what was offensive about my post that was deleted???

justthefacts
21225
Points
justthefacts 06/11/12 - 01:59 pm
6
1
Native Americans?

Which ones? Comaches, Sioux, Cherokee. They don't like being lumped in one bunch. Which ones were there first and had to withstand the land grab of the others?

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