Obama not guilty of crash

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On William Thweatt’s letter of March 15 on President Obama (“Facts don’t suppot Obama”): His mistake, basic to many of his points, is that Obama is in some way responsible for the crash of 2008, or at least its consequences. Many others locally make the same mistake.

That crash, the worst in over 75 years, which threatened to slide the world into a 1930s-style depression, came four months before Obama became president.

Yes, before.

The more-than-doubling of yearly deficits accompanying the crash was because of the loss of taxes from millions of workers losing their jobs and their unemployment costs, and that such a crash needs a big stimulus to hasten recovery. That recovery is happening, though not as rapidly as expected, perhaps because of a lack of experience with such a huge crash. A stimulus was understood by reputable economists as necessary.

The bailout of General Motors and Chrysler has been an amazing success in keeping a strong American role in that all-important industry. Up to a million jobs were saved, and to the surprise of many, most of the federal cost of that bailout has already been repaid.

How can any reasonable person object to that?

Victor Reilly

Aiken, S.C.

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Insider Information
4009
Points
Insider Information 03/18/12 - 10:24 pm
7
6
I love this letter! It

I love this letter! It highlights the "logic" of the left.

GM and Chrysler's problems weren't cash flow. That was the symptom. Their problem was that no one bought their cars. Tossing cash at them is like guzzling beer to stave off a hangover. Stop drinking, and the hangover comes back.

At the end of the day, when the taxpayer stops funding GM and Chrysler, will people buy their cars? That is the problem, and that has not been fixed by the president.

By the way, if you believe that the bailout has been paid back, stop drinking the Kool-Aid and look beyond the DNC videos.

faithson
5157
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faithson 03/18/12 - 11:19 pm
5
6
water under the bridge. WE

water under the bridge. WE made it through to this point, even if it has cost our treasury. Now we must move forward, to those who dismiss this President, they do at their own peril. WE must compromise on BOTH sides to see our way forward. Arguments over not raising revenues only prolong the time of action. I do believe in reducing expenditures, but until we can increase revenue's at the same time, we can talk about it until the cows come home.

fedex227
11187
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fedex227 03/18/12 - 11:36 pm
11
4
'I love this post! It
Unpublished

'I love this post! It highlights the "logic" of the right ... Their problem was that no one bought their cars'.

Facts always seem to get in the way for the far right. The 'fact' that GM is once again the number one automaker in the world is something we have to ignore- I guess being number one means no one is buying what you produce.

During times of economic crisis the federal government has always stepped in to help out private industry and others: Gerald Ford's bailout of New York City in the 1970's when they went bankrupt; Ronald Reagan's bailout of Chrysler in the 1980's when Lee Iacoca pleaded with the government to help save jobs; George Bush Sr.s bailout of the savings and loan industry in the the 1990's (the largest bailout in American history at that time- none of which was ever recouped by taxpayer by the way.); George Bush Jr.'s loans to the airline industry post 9/11 in order to keep them afloat amidst a severe decline in passenger travel.)

You know, its not so much that I object to the right criticizing the President on economic policy- I disagree with some decisions he has made as well. Its when they try to paint it as some type of new phenomenon that has never been perpetrated in the history of the United States by some left wing socialist-fascist. Stop watching Fox News, turn down the volume in Rush Limbaugh- start thinking for yourselves.

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 03/18/12 - 11:39 pm
7
10
Go back to when hussein was

Go back to when hussein was running ACORN.

burninater
9580
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burninater 03/19/12 - 12:42 am
5
5
Oh Victor, don't you see?

Oh Victor, don't you see? Obama was just the next step in the implementation of Cloward-Piven, those two puppet-master sociologists who seized the reins of the global economy from their wizard thrones of academia and caused all of this! All of it! I know it's true because Glen Beck said it, and he has a sweater.

Insider Information
4009
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Insider Information 03/19/12 - 01:20 am
6
2
Let me put it this

Let me put it this way...

Pouring money into a broken economy without fixing the broken economy is like pouring water into a broken bucket without fixing the broken bucket.

In both instances, you get temporary relief, but eventually you're right back where you started.

burninater
9580
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burninater 03/19/12 - 01:48 am
6
2
Unless you have a collateral

Unless you have a collateral asset liquidity crisis, in which case pouring money into a self-correcting system like the economy was exactly what was needed. I'll be sure to support opponents of this strategy when the economy tuns out, literally, to be a bucket.

Craig Spinks
817
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Craig Spinks 03/19/12 - 03:22 am
7
8
Mr. Reilly, Save your

Mr. Reilly,

Save your historical facts.

Hysterical people don't want them and won't heed them.

It'll take a couple more generations before the progeny of these hysterical can accept our having a president a couple of shades darker than are they.

carcraft
25756
Points
carcraft 03/19/12 - 05:41 am
6
4
burninator-Ah yes, paying to

burninator-Ah yes, paying to build windmills in China and Spain, loaning hundreds of millions of dollars to build cars in Finland, hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach African men to wash their crotchs, millions of dollars invested so two people can get cloths for job interviews. Just the type of waste we needed to get America moving again!! Then lets move on to all the "green energy" job training that was in the stimulus program, so we could train peole for jobs that don't exist, while real jobs that need trained workers in the real economy (as apposed to Obama's fantasy land world)go unfilled. As Obam said "some of those shovel ready jobs weren't that ready! Moving right along we can look at the Chevy volt. (what is the carbon foot print of a buring Volt). Ah well, now that unemployment is still above 8%, more people on food stamps than ever before and more young adults having to live with there parents than in the last 60 years. The housing market still wobbly and Fannie and Freddie still gobbling up billions in tax payer bailout. Yes all is Rosie except for the fact that inflation is ramping up (you can't dump hundreds of billions of dollars on the economy and have the dollar keep it's value) http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162-57387655/inflation-not-as-low-as-... . I could have used Fox News but I didn't want Fox derangement syndrome to start to early in the morning. But hey, you can always say it is Bush's fault..Remember according to Tom Hanks "Obama didn't lay in blame"..Oh have we closed GITMO yet? I wish Bush and the Republcans wouldn't stop Obama from closing it....LOL

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 03/19/12 - 05:55 am
5
6
Why not just cut and paste

Why not just cut and paste one comment since every day it's the same old thing? Try expanding your horizons.

nofanofobama
6820
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nofanofobama 03/19/12 - 06:42 am
6
6
yea it was a worldwide

yea it was a worldwide crash..the chinese responded by cutting their busness taxes but we gave money away to obumlers shovel ready jobs..then he laughed and said there wasnt any..it went to his favorite pet projects and democratic supporters.hows that working??? whos economy is booming??? now we have such heavy weights in the dimocratric party such as nancy telling us that unemployment checks are an economic stimulus..the children of the radicals are in charge and it needs to be changed b/4 we lose this great country a lot of uis grew up in.....to quote victor..how can any reasonable person object??

nofanofobama
6820
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nofanofobama 03/19/12 - 06:49 am
6
6
our dim friends believe if

our dim friends believe if you repeat the same old lies every day it will become the truth..or at least the truth in enough naive voters to re-elct the party of whiners..as jack nicholson said **you[they}cant handle the truth..there is no easter bunny, no santa claus or tooth fairy...true wealth and happiness doesnt come from your neighbor..

RunningMan
346
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RunningMan 03/19/12 - 07:02 am
6
6
What he believes is that many

What he believes is that many of you have selected memory about the real reasons we have been struggling to move forward over the past 3 years. Blaming the current president is not the answerer. I have walked into many situatiions where the person I replaced left thing in a mess. Things did not get better overnight, but after a year or so we were on the right path. Change take time and commitment. Apparently, the only thing many of the Obama critics are committed about is making false claims about the issues. Things are and will continue to get better under Obama watch.

allhans
23619
Points
allhans 03/19/12 - 08:44 am
4
2
Obama campaigned hard to

Obama campaigned hard to "fix" the economy. I am so tried of the "inherited" word used by his cronies. He didn't inherit anything.. he knew what he was taking on and he was more than willing....
In the real world he would have been fired...so hope springs eternal.
The country is four years older and deeper in debt.
The "hope and change" is still in effect. let's admit we selected the wrong man for the job and make it happen.

dichotomy
32775
Points
dichotomy 03/19/12 - 08:45 am
8
4
First, let's admit that the

First, let's admit that the crash was caused by Democrat forced home mortgage loan policies and Democrat domestic energy policies that drove gasoline prices so high that the people who should never have gotten a home loan, and would not have gotten those loans under the old tried and true standards, could not afford to pay for those $400,000 houses the Democrats forced the banks to loan them money to buy.

As for GM and Chrysler, I don't see how anyone can call them a success. Anyone can do well for a short period of time if the government provides the cash to run your business and seizes the assets of the rightful owners of the business. If and when the government withdraws taxpayer support, the unions will kill GM and Chrysler again. How many times have we bailed out Chrysler? And GM has been dying a slow union imposed death for decades. Obama did not save the auto industry. He merely postponed the inevitable by giving taxpayer dollars to his buddies in the unions. It's easy to sell a lot of cars when their manufacture is subsidized by the taxpayer. Do you think GM would be selling all of these cars if the price included all of the costs of the union labor and their benefits? Do you think they would have sold even one Volt if the government wasn't giving a $7500 tax credit in addition to subsidizing it's manufacture? Anyone who thinks Obama has "saved" GM is the one who is being unreasonable. Yes, we can "save" a lot of companies if we use taxpayer money to totally fund their operating costs and let them keep everything they make.

Any reasonable person would admit that the permanent fix for GM and Chrysler would have been let them go through organized bankruptcy and renegotiate the crippling union contracts. What Obama has done is nothing more than give taxpayer money away to his union supporters. Just like he is giving taxpayer money to his other supporters with Obamacare. $16,000,000,000,000 and climbing rapidly. How many Obama supporters can WE support?

TParty
6003
Points
TParty 03/19/12 - 09:11 am
9
0
I am one who did not believe

I am one who did not believe in bailing out anything, except the airlines back in 2001- because the government forced them to halt operations. Ford had problems for years. I remember early to mid 2000's there seemed to be a large recall every month by Ford, and factories shutting down and sections sold off all the time. Today, Ford is great company again and I will be looking strongly at Ford when it's time to purchase a new vehicle. Something I would never have thought of ten years ago.

To me- that is what a business has to do if it wants to remain in business. It's hard and ugly, but that's the game.

I did not like GM taking bailouts, however I have I admit I was wrong, because jobs were saved, and GM is now again number one in the world. The ripple effect of allowing them to fail would be disastrous and I don't think 3 million jobs would have been added- instead the free fall would have continued.

With that said, GM has not paid back the American tax payer. Because we own stock- if we sold now there would be a great loss. If I recall correctly- GM is hovering around $25 a share, and it needs to add $30 value for us to break even.

Another problem is of course Obama saying he would not hire lobbyists for his administration- which he lied about. Bailout recipients like General Motors and Fannie Mae seem to have a revolving door of access, lobbying and other sneaky crony shady activities. Ethic violations for sure.

GaStang22
910
Points
GaStang22 03/19/12 - 09:19 am
1
0
Too bad we can't split the
Unpublished

Too bad we can't split the country into 2 sides. That way the kool aid drinkers can have exactly what they ask for. And reallsy so sick of the ignorance and the race card as a defense for said ignorance.

wondersnevercease
9218
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wondersnevercease 03/19/12 - 09:20 am
0
0
copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 03/19/12 - 09:23 am
3
3
BRAVO DICHOTOMY!

BRAVO DICHOTOMY!

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 03/19/12 - 09:33 am
2
2
And now back to reality. “A

And now back to reality.

“A Community Reinvestment Act Reader
We still have to debunk this myth?”

“Barry Ritholtz of The Big Picture goes off on Carney here with a ‘CRA Thought Experiment’:

‘In reality, the precise opposite of what a CRA-induced collapse should have looked like is what occurred. The 345 mortgage brokers that imploded were non-banks, not covered by the CRA legislation. The vast majority of CRA covered banks are actually healthy.

The biggest foreclosure areas aren’t Harlem or Chicago’s South side or DC slums or inner city Philly; Rather, it has been non-CRA regions — the Sand States — such as southern California, Las Vegas, Arizona, and South Florida. The closest thing to an inner city foreclosure story is Detroit – and maybe the bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler actually had something to do with that.’”

“And it must be said:

‘These arguments are generally made by people who read the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal and ignore the rest of the paper—economic know-nothings whose opinions are informed mostly by ideology and, occasionally, by prejudice.’”

http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/a_community_reinvestment_act_r.php?page=all

TParty
6003
Points
TParty 03/19/12 - 09:34 am
5
2
Global sales indicate you are

Global sales indicate you are wrong dichotomy. However I'll say a big reason GM has done so well after being bailed out a few years ago is that Japan was destroyed. Once they come back- and they will- GM will be singing a different tune if they don't stay competitive with good products.

carcraft
25756
Points
carcraft 03/19/12 - 01:11 pm
3
0
Perhaps BJPhysics is correct

Perhaps BJPhysics is correct about the CRA- but that still does not excuse Barney Frank and Chris Dodd from not slowing down Freddie and Fannie when George Bush asked them. We are now on the hook from Fannie and Freddie for billions more before all the bad Mortgage debt is resovled, to quote Barney "If it isn't broke we aren't going to fix it!

carcraft
25756
Points
carcraft 03/19/12 - 01:27 pm
3
2
Well the crash three years

Well the crash three years ago is being debated lets look at what is happening to gas prices today and the energy problems being created by the Democtats today. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/energy-environment/24refining... Note that the article mentions three specific items as leading to the closing of refineries. Ethanol (a Democrat program where Algore cast the deciding vote) Obama's hostility to the oil industry ( Obama is suggesting cutting the tax breaks oil companies recieve that are the same as other industries) and increasing gas milage for vehicle. So when we lose refining jobs and pay more for gas the Democrat appologists can still blame Bush etc!

TParty
6003
Points
TParty 03/19/12 - 02:12 pm
0
0
In 2005, oil imports

In 2005, oil imports accounted for nearly 60 percent of America’s daily consumption. In 2010, for the first time in recent memory, imports were less than half of consumption, and last year, imports were only 45% — 8.6 million barrels a day of the 19 million consumed. Source: EIA

The truth of the matter is that we are in the middle of a great boom in domestic oil production. We are at the highest levels in 30 years. The United States for the first time is actually exporting oil rather than importing oil, and it has made no difference to our prices. In fact, as we can see, oil prices have gone up. Why? Because China is growing, India is growing, etc. and secondly people are worried about a possible war with Iran - geopolitical concerns. Source: Things Fareed Zakaria has said.

dwb619
93244
Points
dwb619 03/19/12 - 02:38 pm
1
0
One of the largest proponents

One of the largest proponents of ethanol is the farm lobby.

twolane
191
Points
twolane 03/19/12 - 02:40 pm
0
0
gm works off free money
Unpublished

gm works off free money basically has no overhead thanks to us taxpayers and isnt paying any taxes pretty hard not to make a profit...their products are still subpar....and yes when japan gets back to full capacity its over...another reason why gm sellsso many CARS IS THEIR FLEET SALES...you know government vehicles state federal and local.....

TParty
6003
Points
TParty 03/19/12 - 02:49 pm
3
0
@ dwb619: The farm lobby is

@ dwb619: The farm lobby is also subsidized. The thing I hate about ethanol is that it's competing with food, which is a reason why those prices are rising. Ethanol I'm told ruins components to engines, especially motorcycle and lawn mowers. That's not cool. Not to mention all the damage done to the environment for all the land being clear for corn. I don't like the corn industry...

Conservative Man
5564
Points
Conservative Man 03/19/12 - 05:44 pm
1
0
In November, if unemployment

In November, if unemployment is high, gas prices are high, and inflation increases, Obama will lose....period. I predict all four...

TParty
6003
Points
TParty 03/19/12 - 06:04 pm
0
0
Obama should be easy to beat

Obama should be easy to beat Conservative Man, but here's why he won't lose. Gas prices will go down eventually. Most of the speculators who have caused the high fuel prices are buddies with Obama who has given them bailouts without any conditions of changing their ways. They want the money train without any risk on their part to continue.

Unemployment has been trending very well ever since Obama took office. Government jobs are being cut (He can claim smaller government) while the private sector is making profits and hiring again. Of the last 24 months, only 4 of them have not been a positive and that was back in June 2010. Even the months where jobs were not a positive net gain- it is much better than the free for all dive that was occurring before he took office.

Conservatives are not liking Romney- so if he is the nominee- I'm predicting voter turnout won't be strong for the GOP. This is what happens when Romney is just like Obama. If Santorum is the nominee, you'll see liberals and independents come out very strong to keep him out of office. This is what happens when Santorum is running on banning pornography and wanting to be the Christian version of the taliban- minus the senseless killings of his own people. There is a fun game out there, I can give a quote and you can guess who said it. Santorum, or Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. It's not as easy as you think!!

The way you beat Obama is show how bad he is for civil liberties- the NDAA he signed, never speaking out against controls to the internet like SOPA. You show his crony capitalism, how he is BFF with the bankers/wall street that set our country back while taking our tax payers money. That's how you beat him.

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