Save outrage over Marines

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War is hell. Therefore, complaining about U.S. Marines urinating on the corpses of the enemy is sanctimonious. What about the Marines who were killed or maimed by the Taliban? That is what our political leaders ought to be more outraged about.

The same enemy is planning to carry out operations to kill our soldiers and civilians. At the same time, our political and military leaders are wimping out by suggesting these Marines should be harshly punished for urinating on the corpses of enemies who moments earlier were trying to kill them. That makes no sense.

The only rules in war are to win and survive. The war zone is not a social function. Civil courtesies and political correctness should be extended to the enemy only after they have ceased shooting and surrender. Remember 9-11, disabled veterans, widows, fatherless children and grieving relatives who have lost loves ones to a heartless enemy.

Before our Marines are thrown under the bus for political expediency, remember those Americans who jumped to their deaths as the Twin Towers were engulfed in flames. Let’s not ever forget why this all came to be.

Kevin Palmer

Martinez

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TParty
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TParty 01/16/12 - 02:10 am
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"The only rules in war are to

"The only rules in war are to win and survive."

That part is not true, not by a long shot. I didn't devote as many years as fedex227, but I did have three deployments to Afghanistan where it was my job to do actually hunting of the enemy- and he is absolutely 100% correct.

There are rules. The underlying thinking is rather simple: self-interest.

You're rightfully concerned about about service members dying. Every death is a tragedy and great loss. Urinating on dead warriors is disgusting, and dishonorable. It's the same as dragging dead bodies behind trucks, and hanging the corpses off bridges (remember when that happened to some contractors in Iraq?). Once people are off the battlefield- there is a way to handle those bodies and prisoners. If we want to remain a professional and honorable establishment- we have to follow the laws of war.

And for those who are going to say our enemy doesn't follow those rules. Well- that's because they are the bad guys, the evil people we are trying to stop. We do not want to become like them. Not. One. Bit.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 01/16/12 - 07:23 am
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fedex and TParty, AMEN.

fedex and TParty, AMEN. Thank you both for your service and your integrity.

Jon Lester
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Jon Lester 01/16/12 - 07:41 am
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OK, so you've said what you

OK, so you've said what you think needs to be done if we're to call ourselves at war. Can you define for us, without depending entirely on popular platitudes, why we're in Afghanistan now, and why it's worth the risk of losing hearts and minds in the process?

Iwannakno
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Iwannakno 01/16/12 - 09:53 am
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I am not defending what these
Unpublished

I am not defending what these Marines did. Who knows what they have seen and experienced. The military needs to step up and start having mandatory counseling for soldiers that have seen action. I see we have learned nothing from Vietnam. We have teenagers and 20somethings killing on Monday and home on tuesday. This has to stop or you will not only see more of the Marine behavior but also drinking and drug problems when they return home. We need to take the shame out of seeking help.

blackindependent
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blackindependent 01/16/12 - 10:03 am
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"why we're in Afghanistan

"why we're in Afghanistan now" has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Volunteer or draftee, very few military men or women WANT to go out and kill or risk being killed, but they are there and they do an outstanding job.

Having said that, I join the other three who declare this action to be disgusting, reprehensible and other words I am not smart enough to use.

Every time I think of the atrocities of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, Hitler, the Japanese, etc. towards American troops, I comfort myself with the knowledge that AMERICANS are not like that, but with the actions of these guys (and others we are reminded of), it takes a little bit of that smug off my soul.

I can handle being mistreated by the enemy but awful as this is to the dead Taliban, it is emotional mistreatment of me by my own brothers and it hurts.
Reading the majority of comments from military men like myself eases the pain quite a bit.

Chillen
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Chillen 01/16/12 - 10:35 am
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The only thing I have to say

The only thing I have to say about all of this is where are all the liberals and the media calling for the Commander in Chief - Obama's impeachment? They were intensely all over Bush about Abu-Ghraib for at least a year. How is this any different?

Oh yea, I forgot. There is an agenda to protect. Hypocrites.

faithson
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faithson 01/16/12 - 11:02 am
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Chillen, the atrocities at

Chillen, the atrocities at abu-braib were systemic. This incident stands alone. I am sure that if one of those marines were your son, you would not make excuses for his behavior, you would expect him to face the consequences of his uncivilized behavior.

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 11:22 am
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It is a violation of American

It is a violation of American military law to pee on dead enemy soldiers. It's also a violation of American military law to murder your platoon sergeant and it's a violation of military law to show up late for work. Like civil law, military law runs the gamut from really big and serious crimes, all the way down to small, insignificant offenses. Peeing on enemy corpses should appropriately be viewed at the minor end of the scale.

For those of you fortunate to have never gone to war, you'll have to imagine what it's like to live in a place where living conditions are far worse than you have ever experienced, where family is no more than a distant memory, and where just about everybody you see that's not an American soldier is doing everything they can to kill you. Also imagine that several of your closest friends have just died horrific deaths at the hands of enemy soldiers who now lay dead before you and, in the highly charged emotional state, you want to give them one last, well deserved, totally harmless insult. You decide to pee on them.

Big deal.

This issue, like Abu Ghraib, is purely manufactured political theater. A tempest in a tea pot. It's a politically motivated anti-America, anti-military construct of the far left intended to sully the efforts and the reputations of the thousands of good Marines and good soldiers who have sacrificed and suffered in wars throughout our history.

They should be punished. They should be reprimanded and perhaps reduced in rank and/or fined some money. They should NOT stand Court Martial, they should NOT be jailed, and the left-wing elected officials who loathe the military should stop celebrating this relatively minor offense and apologize to the military services for raising it to such a high level in the first place.

These Marines deserve our gratitude and admiration for their combat service even if a little disappointment for this minor infraction.

Chillen
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Chillen 01/16/12 - 11:26 am
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@faithson. Incidents are

@faithson. Incidents are incidents. Liberals said Bush was to blame for Abu Ghraib. They are not saying obama is to blame for this.

Hypocrites.

Truth be told, neither is to blame in my opinion - they weren't there and they are too far removed.

I'm just simply pointing out the liberal lame stream media bias (again) and the liberal hypocrisy. I swear you can't make this stuff up.....its like I'm living in a technicolor nightmare that I can't wake up from.

Carleton Duvall
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Carleton Duvall 01/16/12 - 11:30 am
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Well said, Harley. This is a

Well said, Harley. This is a military matter and will be handled by military courts and should not be used by the left for propaganda purposes. But it will and you know it will. That is the way the left operates.

freeradical
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freeradical 01/16/12 - 12:16 pm
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I'm not nearly as concerned

I'm not nearly as concerned about what is done to dead taliban , as

I am with what is done by the taliban to living Amercian Soldiers.

And " americans " who jump all over this without giving a wit about

the other turn my stomach.

Why do you think in 10 years of war there is not one detail anyone can cite of what

has been done to captured american soldiers , captured american

pow's ?

People are such sheople.

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 12:08 pm
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Thanks Carleton. You okay?

Thanks Carleton. You okay? Long time no see.

peace4784
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peace4784 01/16/12 - 12:27 pm
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Now we have to issues. The
Unpublished

Now we have to issues. The dumbing down of America, and the wimping down of American men. You complain about Marines relieving themselves after a job well done. But, you say nothing about live Taliban militants being tortured. Some peple are devoid of logic. Marines are fighting to prevent the Taliban from urinating on Americans. War is not civilized, period. Not only that the vast majority of American movie entertainment is brutality. Please stop the hypocrisy. It's nauseating.

Willow Bailey
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Willow Bailey 01/16/12 - 01:05 pm
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Yes, I agree it was very

Yes, I agree it was very wrong behavior and the Commander In Chief should be removed from office over this.

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 01/16/12 - 01:14 pm
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Hear! Hear! Harley for your

Hear! Hear! Harley for your 10:22 post! Let's keep things in proper context and perspective. Yes they were wrong and yes they need to face the consequences; but gee whiz, let's use some common sense!

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 01/16/12 - 01:15 pm
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delete double

delete double

psholder
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psholder 01/16/12 - 03:24 pm
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If urinating on their troops

If urinating on their troops only signifies that war is hell, then Afghans should be able to urinate on our troops..............since war is hell. But I bet americans would get upset if that were to happen and be exposed in the media. The double standard of the GOP is actually the best entertainment that money cannot buy! Thank you GOP! I love it!

Chillen
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Chillen 01/16/12 - 03:38 pm
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I'd be tickled pink if all

I'd be tickled pink if all the muslim terrorists did was urinate on our troops. Instead they blow us up, they slit our throats on camera & post the video's online, they drag our dead citizens bodies through the streets, they fly planes into our private office buildings and kill thousands of innocent Americans at work, they blow up Christian churches, they blow up hotels, do I need to go on?!

Here we go again with that apples & oranges liberal comparison thing. You cannot compare things that are vastly different.

Carleton Duvall
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Carleton Duvall 01/16/12 - 04:10 pm
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psholderwrote: If urinating

psholderwrote:
If urinating on their troops only signifies that war is hell, then Afghans should be able to urinate on our troops..............since war is hell. But I bet Americans would get upset if that were to happen and be exposed in the media.
What are you saying? Does that mean that you are not an American or are you saying that you are an American but only other Americans would get upset but you wouldn't?

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 04:52 pm
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psholder, I suggest you go

psholder, I suggest you go find yourself a young Marine and make that suggestion to him/her.

TParty
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TParty 01/16/12 - 05:12 pm
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Chillen- If you made some

Chillen- If you made some good points about some fanatical Muslims killing innocents, and how they do it, how tragic and awful it is.

You should look into how many civilians have been killed by our Armed Forces in Afghanistan. Iraq. Pakistan. Can imagine how awful that is for families of the innocent killed?

If all we did was urinate on some dead muslims, I'd be tickled pink as well. But we do more than that. We torture, kill humiliate others. Innocents are included, it's not just bad guys.

Go watch Ron Paul's little video, Imagine.

Bruno
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Bruno 01/16/12 - 05:38 pm
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Mr. Palmer has it wrong. We

Mr. Palmer has it wrong. We should not lower ourselves to their standards. We should be better than that. I support our troops as I was once one of them but there are standards of conduct. The soldiers who did this should be busted a couple of ranks, be fined and spend a little time in the brig sort themselves out.

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 05:42 pm
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TParty said "If all we did

TParty said "If all we did was urinate on some dead muslims, I'd be tickled pink as well. But we do more than that. We torture, kill humiliate others. Innocents are included, it's not just bad guys."

Absolute, total, unmitigated baloney. Further evidence you never served in Afghanistan as you claim (in addition to not knowing how much you were paid as jump pay).

Shameful.

TParty
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TParty 01/16/12 - 05:45 pm
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Well Harley- if you want

Well Harley- if you want pics, just let me know. Also- you cannot deny that the American military has killed innocents, that mistakes that have been made.

Bruno
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Bruno 01/16/12 - 05:48 pm
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TParty, I believe that you

TParty, I believe that you will find the instances of the US Military killing innocents are few and far between with the VAST majority of even those instances accidents rather than matters of course. Any attempt to say the US Military is the same as the Taliban is ludicrous.

Carleton Duvall
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Carleton Duvall 01/16/12 - 05:52 pm
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How about sending them to me,

How about sending them to me, TParty. I will verify them for Harley. My email address is cduvall@comcast.net.
Thanks

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 05:55 pm
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TParty, if you have evidence

TParty, if you have evidence supporting that claim you should immediately contact the Inspetor General's office at Fort Gordon and report that you have first hand knowledge of war crimes by the American military. If you have such knowledge and fail to report it, you could be an accessory to the crime.

Do you have such evidence?

Carleton Duvall
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Carleton Duvall 01/16/12 - 05:56 pm
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In case you are feeling a

In case you are feeling a little holier than thou,TParty, I was in WWII and saw innocents killed on both sides which included the bombing of nagaski and hiroshima. That is the way war works. Now get over it

harley_52
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harley_52 01/16/12 - 05:59 pm
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TParty, you didn't say

TParty, you didn't say "mistakes." You said "We torture, kill humiliate others. Innocents are included, it's not just bad guys."

Do you have evidence?

TParty
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TParty 01/16/12 - 06:38 pm
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Mistakes are made. If you

Mistakes are made. If you want evidence of things that go wrong on purpose, urinating on dead bodies is a recent one. The army guys who were recently sent to jail for those sport killings in Afghanistan. More army personnel at Abu Ghraib that gave us a black eye.

Pics were sent by the way to Carelton Duvall.

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