Expect 'acts of God' on sinful world

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Americans have not yet given any indication that they would like recent "acts of God" to be stopped. There has been no national repentance; there have been no plans to reverse those steps that have been taken to ban God and his Word from our society.

What in the world could induce God to stop his wrath, I cannot for the life of me imagine. "Ignore him, and he'll go away" has not worked. He's still there, and just a little more provoked by the insolence of those who hate him and refuse to acknowledge his holiness and righteousness.

"Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil," the Bible warns (Exodus 23:2). God can punish by tens, thousands and millions. People vainly imagine because there is a unanimous sentimentality to doing evil, they will get by with it, but no one shall escape.

George Mason, Father of the Bill of Rights, said, "Providence punishes national sins by national calamities." Sinners must flee to the Lord Jesus Christ in humility, repentance, faith and obedience to his Word, the Bible, or He will destroy every last person.

The Creator has promised, "Heaven and Earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away" (Mark 13:31). The holy people of God are looking "for new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness" (II Peter 3:13). "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

It looks like greater "acts of God" are to be expected on a local, national and global scale. Who is making preparations?

The Rev. Timothy Fellows

Aiken, S.C.

(The writer is pastor of The Church of Philadelphia in Aiken.)

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JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 01:11 pm
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Being born into sin yourself

Being born into sin yourself as your bible teaches you are in no position to pass judgment on anyone. What qualifies you to decide who is saved or condemned. According to the bible, Jesus against passing judgment and only he is judge of the both the dead and living. Acts 10:42.

You're in danger yourself of being condemned to the very fires you condemn others to according to your savior Christ.

Matthew. 7:1-5
1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 .For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24
3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but consideres­t not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 . Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Surely Christ is saying you better lookout for your own salvation and don't worry about who's going to hell and who ain't.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 01:17 pm
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Treaty of Tripoli Article 11

Treaty of Tripoli Article 11 Signed by John Adams 1797

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..­..

Seriously what is it going to take to convince you people this nation WAS NOT FOUNDED AS CHRISTIAN THEOCRACY??? You people are advocating for the very thing we are sending our troops to FIGHT AGAINST!

Name anything in our Constituti­on that is derived from Judeo-Chri­stian sources alone.

There is no democracy in the bible. There is no form of government even remotely a whisper of what the founders put together. They took most of their ideas for democracy and government form from ancient Rome and Greece, two "pagan" cultures.

The rest came primarily from the Enlightenm­ent, with a focus on the Scottish Enlightenm­ent. And the key driving force for the Enlightenm­ent was to fight against the control of the Church, against superstiti­on, against "conservat­ive" principles­.

The founders were primarily deists, not Christians­. Jefferson and Madison especially were enlightene­d men, who did not believe in the divinity of Jesus. Jefferson, in fact, rewrote the gospels, taking out all mention of the supernatur­al. Almost all of the founders were deeply suspicious of the church and wanted nothing to do with the power of the church to oppress and control individual lives.

America was NOT founded on Judeo-Chri­stian principles­. It was founded on the absence of religious orthodoxy, the need for its absence.

Chillen
17
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Chillen 06/09/11 - 01:22 pm
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momster. Yes, ICL is

momster. Yes, ICL is correct. If you read people's posts (on other articles), you see exactly what they are.

You can see on this letter their mocking of other posters (who are Christians). You can also see their mocking and belittling of Christians throughout many of their posts on other articles. I've seen your posts before momster, you know exactly what I'm talking about because you post here regularly.

Nice try though.

noway. You can argue it both ways. I say we were founded by Christians using Christian principals. The Pilgrims were Christians. The Founding Fathers were Christians. Their views and principals are woven throughout our history. Just read the documents and you'll see.

Are you saying we were founded as an atheist nation?

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 01:36 pm
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Posted by Citibank: "Yet

Posted by Citibank: "Yet it's okay for people like Chillen and ICL to call me an abomination because I'm gay. It's okay for them to mock me because I happen to point out flaws in their faith. Yeah...hypocrisy reins AC.com like white on rice!"

I must be hitting a nerve Citibank. This is two days in a row you have lied concerning something I have done or said. Back up your slander or kindly retract your lie.

Where have I made any judgement towards you? Never
Where have I called you an abomination? Never
Where have I mocked you? Never
What qualifies me to decide who is saved or condemned? Nothing. But by your actions I can determine if you could possibly be a child of God. You have constantly mocked Christian posters and Christianity so I would make an educated guess that you do not have a personal relationship with Christ. If I'm wrong, then sister you have some knee bending to do.

As for you being gay, that is your cross to bear, but as a Christian, I can voice my opposition to homosexuality, gay lifestyles, and sin in general. This is not putting you down personally, it is just stating what I believe.

Now I'm waiting on a retraction to your lies..................

Chillen
17
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Chillen 06/09/11 - 01:33 pm
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Oh, and btw jesussaves. I

Oh, and btw jesussaves. I didn't know you were gay, nor do I care.

I am a fiscal conservative, not a social conservative. I believe in God but do not attend church so I have no super strong faith (though I wish I did, I'm just so literal & logical that I find it difficult). I believe that if you are a good person - i.e. do no major harm to others, that you will go to Heaven no matter what your religion or non-religion. I don't believe in the mumbo jumbo that you can go out, do evil, ask God for forgiveness & then be absolved of your "crime" against humanity. Do enough of it and you are doomed to a life outside Heaven.

A dear friend of mine is gay. I don't hold it against him. Not one bit. You can go through my old post if you like, you'll never see me berate gays - only support who they are.

I'm just an American citizen who's fed up with Christians being mocked and muslims being put on a pedestal.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 01:37 pm
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Chillen have you read article

Chillen have you read article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli? It was written by JOHN ADAMS...a FOUNDING FATHER ;-)

You also realize "Under God" wasn't added to the pledge until the 1950s during the Communist scare rants of McCarthy. A lot of the "Christian nation" talk come about in the 1950s during the communist scare because as McCarthy said all Communists were evil atheists.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html

follower
59
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follower 06/09/11 - 01:35 pm
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Citi, the separation you

Citi, the separation you speak of is correct. However, Christians are to be an influence on the world around them. Jesus was fully aware that legislation was not the key to Godliness, but the heart. It's why He summed up the law fully when He said, "Love God, love your neighbor" [emphasis mine]. All the laws hang on these.

A full understanding of the verses in Matthew does not prohibit judging, but with the understanding that to do so means that you will be judged by the same standard that you judge others.

Am I judging someone to say that homosexuality is condemned by God? No. That's God's law, not mine. But at no time is anyone given the right to demean, demoralize, or belittle another person, no matter the sin. Unfortunately, many that call themselves "christian" [little "c" on purpose] put others down in order to falsely lift themselves up.

Your statement that you are gay doesn't line up with God's standard. But that doesn't make you less valuable or less than human. What it does point to is someone that needs the touch of God in their life. It's also the reason that so many deny God's Word, for it is God's Word that calls into account, responsibility. While many deny Him, it doesn't erase the accountability.

I would guess that your presence on these forums, and the statements you offer are in reality a cry for understanding. "God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him". If you seek truth, you'll find Him, for in Him IS truth. I pray that you find Him.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 01:41 pm
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Chillen, We have no official

Chillen,

We have no official religion here-- so we are a secular nation. Secular does not mean atheist. Americans can believe what they wish--and we can discuss belief in a secular way, come to some understand­ing and acceptance that others believe differentl­y, or not at all in a god.
If belief in a faith leads to compassion and a concern for the flourishin­g of all--great­. Sometimes it does not, and it is used as a weapon against others.

When faith marks others as infidels, or somehow less than human, we've got a problem. It began with the Puritans-- their heirs are with us today to vilify other religions and non-believ­ers. This is where the danger lies...

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 01:43 pm
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Follower ICL Scoop etc, YOU

Follower ICL Scoop etc,

YOU obviously missed his point! Our country was founded on "RELIGIOUS FREEDOM"! By history the majority have belonged to the Christian Faith, but it was not Mandated! Many of Founding Fathers were Deists, not Christian. Strong ethics and morals does not belong to Christians alone! You need to go back and reread alot of those writings! The basis of our Constituti­on is SEPARATION of Church and State! When the Immigrants fled Europe to come to America, they were fleeing Religious Persecutio­n and decided to form a government where that could NOT happen...t­hus freedom of religion!!­!! That a large percentage followed a Christian based faith has nothing to do with anything.

And as far as this country going in a dangerous direction.­..look to yourself and others on the right who behave far less than Christian and promote fear and hate.. Jesus certainly would look with sadness at the religious foundament­ists and people like Rush, Beck, Hannity, Michelle Bachmann, Palin, Jindal, Cheney, Newt and others of that persuation­!!!!!!!!!!­!!

faithson
5158
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faithson 06/09/11 - 01:44 pm
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In God we Trust... a deist

In God we Trust... a deist point of view. To extrapolate this to include only one religion on the planet seams rather idiosyncratic and terribly self serving. It is common knowledge that most of those who were involved in the creation of the constitution were 'Deists', they believed in a sovereign God-head. The separation of individual religious belief's from the political state, was and is one of the greatest evolutions of government in human history. Government is a secular institution, thus it should use Science and Philosophy's best academia to prosecute its ministrations, keeping in mind that the sovereign God-head always has the last word.

follower
59
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follower 06/09/11 - 01:44 pm
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Chillen, I've read you post

Chillen, I've read you post for quite some time and it's apparent you are a "black and white" type of personality. While you are accurate in a large majority of the cases, at times it seems you lack compassion.

It's difficult for an intellectual to consider totally the things of God. From the human perspective, the literal and logical are challenged. But God doesn't ask us to rely completely on the heart and abandon the mind. He didn't give us the capacity of reasoning and then ask us to toss it into the garbage.

The life long questions of origin, meaning, morality, and destiny are answered fully and cohesively. It's the world's answers that are lacking.

Belief in God is a start, and signifies that you aren't foolish enough to believe all of creation is here by random accident. But there's more if you want to know.

The Knave
24
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The Knave 06/09/11 - 01:48 pm
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T. Fellows has, once again,

T. Fellows has, once again, produced a jewel of religious clap-trap. It goes to shows what happens when you're in the business of making noise rather than sense. "Religion: A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~Ambrose Bierce

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 01:49 pm
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Citibank........I'm still

Citibank........I'm still waiting for that retraction on the lies you postd about me.

Admit it, I have never called you an abomination, been judgemental or mocked you. Never said anything derogatory to you concerning your gay status, other than to voice my opinion that homosexuality, according to my Christian belief, is wrong.

Chillen
17
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Chillen 06/09/11 - 01:51 pm
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Thanks follower. I'm working

Thanks follower. I'm working on knowing more. I'll get there. :)

follower
59
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follower 06/09/11 - 01:57 pm
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Citi, I don't want a

Citi, I don't want a religious state. Who's would it be? I agree that religious freedom means you can worship whom you please and how you please. And no question, morality can be found in other religions. But as a Christian, I have the command to share Christ with others. That someone refuses is their choice. But to stand for what you believe is not "shoving" religion down someone's throat.

How many commercials do you see asking for your patronage? Are they shoving Coca Cola down your throat? You can say no. Same with Christianity.

I'm sorry that so many that claim the name of Christ don't act in a Christ-like manner. I can't and never will be able to control that, and neither will ICL, scoop, or Willow. While there are times that we may get testy, consider our motive. We don't get paid, we're not asking you to come to our church, and we don't want your money. Could it be that we just want to offer the person of Jesus Christ to those that might be seeking? And we understand fully that we'll be taken to task for our belief.

ICL, scoop, Willow, sorry if I'm out of line speaking for you.

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 02:07 pm
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No....you're stating it

No....you're stating it perfectly follower. I have no problem with someone taking me to task on my beliefs. I do have a problem when someone posts lies and refuses to acknowlege those lies. As testy as I might get over the subject of God, I truly would never want anyone to die without the salvation of Jesus Christ.....not even my worse enemy. I know what it's like living without Christ and I know how joyous it's been since I've turned my life over to Him and I can guarantee you, life is so much better now.......never said easier but it sure is better.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 02:13 pm
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In God We Trust wasn't a

In God We Trust wasn't a motto our Founders came up with. It wasn't even added on money until around the Civil War.

It was on money beforehand due to pressure from Christian groups during the civil war, but it wasn't made a national motto until the 50's. I don't think anyone has claimed it first appeared on money in the 50's. Indeed, the idea for the motto came from the existence of it on the coins.

Point is, it wasn't on coins before 1865, because the constitution forbids it. I suspect that during that period of civil unrest, however, anything would have been done to please the people, without regard to the constitution (and especially as at the time the country was largely Christian).

It doesn't belong on the money currently though, which should be the subject up for discussion. Nor does it belong as a national motto of a country where the Establishment clause of the First Amendment strictly prohibits it!

freeuniversalist
0
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freeuniversalist 06/09/11 - 02:22 pm
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There is a reason the world

There is a reason the world is in the chaos it is in today. God is in complete control of everything, and everything is happening according to His will, though his will isn't understood most of the time.

For those who subscribe to the popular doctrine of Original Sin :

"For the creature was MADE subject to VANITY NOT WILLINGLY, but by reason of Him,Who HATH SUBJECTED the same in hope. Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groans and travails IN PAIN until NOW" (Rom. 8:20-22)
This verse alone does a lot of damage to Christendom's doctrine of Original Sin. This verse tells us that God himself who subjected mankind to vanity (sin). It was not possible for Satan not to sin as he was created to sin because he was a sinner "from the BEGINNING."It was not possible for Eve NOT to sin. If they never ate from the forbidden tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would have never reached the first spiritual step in become LIKE God. This is just the first step in the salvation of ALL of MANKIND, and not just a select few. How do ALL die through Adam, but few are made alive through Christ? It doesn't make sense. The Gospel is indeed a message of good news. It's good news for all mankind. Eventually "every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord" but not all are suppose to be "Manifest Son's of God" right now in this age. That doesn't mean those who aren't "saved" go to a fabled hell hole for all of eternity. The original scripture never speaks of this and neither does God.

iLove
626
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iLove 06/09/11 - 02:43 pm
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IMO these "natural disasters"
Unpublished

IMO these "natural disasters" are actually man-made (HAARP Technology).

The dates that these "events" happen are usually on an Occult holiday. Research Research Research.

But prepare yourself for God is returning soon. Before he returs, there must be an anti-christ...where EVERYONE but a FEW will accpet him. THEN God shall return after a short period of time.

The "natural" disasters are actually mans way of geeting people to accept the antichrist...IMO :)

Be blessed!!!!!!!!!!!

iLove
626
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iLove 06/09/11 - 02:44 pm
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Here is JUST ONE
Unpublished

Here is JUST ONE link.
http://www.bariumblues.com/haarp1.htm

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 02:56 pm
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freeuniversalist, I don't

freeuniversalist, I don't know what book you are getting your words from and crediting them to Romans 8:20-22 but her is what the Holy Bible states in Romas 8:20-22

20) For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by it's own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21) that the creation itself will be liberated from it's bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

These scriptures speak on the suffering and future glory of the children of God.....nothing about Satan being a sinner first and Eve not being able to do anything but sin.....where do you get your information?

Adam and Eve having to reach their first spiritual step to become like God? WHAT???

Jesus Christ himself said in His Holy Word that unless a man be born again (spiritual birth) He can not see the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 14:10-11, speaking of the antichrist, teaches us, "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." Hell is a lake of burning fire, as described in Revelation 20:14-15, "Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."

So tell me again how you came to the conclusion that those who are not born again children of God don't "go to a fabled hell hole for all etermity" and that God never spoke of Hell.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
2
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 06/09/11 - 03:21 pm
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iLove, The 1924 tornado

iLove,

The 1924 tornado outbreak was the worst in history until this year. In that outbreak there were at least 26 tornadoes across the Southeast in a space of two days. It resulted in 110 deaths and 1,133 injured. Two of the storms had damage paths of over 100 miles. Now, there was NO government agency shooting radio waves into the air in 1924. So what caused it? The same thing that caused it this time, a greater than normal snow melt hitting a warmer than usual warm front. As for the radio waves into space thing, how many radio stations are there in the US? How many High frequency stations? So why aren't THEY getting blamed too? After all, they shoot radio waves into the atmosphere too. Use common sense people!

freeuniversalist
0
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freeuniversalist 06/09/11 - 03:26 pm
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ICL, I was actually quoting

ICL, I was actually quoting it from the American King James Version, it actually does interpret that verse correctly. It does imply that God designed the human race to fail before it succeeds. Also, "The person who practices sin belongs to the evil one, because the devil has been SINNING FROM THE BEGINNING. The reason that the Son of God was revealed was to destroy what the devil has been doing." (1 John 3:8) Satan did sin from the beginning. Contrary to popular Christian doctrine, he was not an angel or Lucifer. This is also nowhere to be found in early Christian scriptures.

Your Revelation 14:10-11 does not prove that people burn in hell for eternity. Forever and ever should be interpreted "aion of the aions". The Greek Scriptures tell us that Christ will reign "for the eons of the eons" or "the ages of the ages." Not "for the eons of the eons of the eons" as your statement suggests. "For the eons of the eons" makes simple and exact sense, and is in harmony with other Scriptures. "For ever and ever" contradicts dozens of other Scriptures. The truth is, "for ever and ever" is a contradiction by itself. Both language and logic forbid duplication of anything infinite. There is no such thing as "several eternities" or "multiple for evers" or "numerous everlastings."
In Rev. 14:10 both "eons" are in the PLURAL. So if someone insists that an "aion" means "for ever" or "eternity," then "aions" would be "for evers" or "eternities." Hence it would have to be translated "for evers of evers" or "for eternities of eternities."
So how are we to understand the Scripture that says Christ will "reign for the eons of the eons?" It's quite simple. Christ "reigns for the eons of the eons" (Rev 11:15) because He reigns for only two eons out of all the other eons. He will reign for the next two eons. That is, He will reign for the thousand years (the next eon) and He reigns during the New Heaven and the New Earth, the eon after that.

freeuniversalist
0
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freeuniversalist 06/09/11 - 03:30 pm
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I can give you verse after

I can give you verse after verse in the Greek, where it is misinterpreted by the current versions translated from Latin to English. Latin really messed up modern Christian doctrine. Especially with words like "forever" and "hell". Hell is translated multiple different ways, mainly hades, which means "the grave" or Gehenna, which is an old garbage dump south of Jerusalem.

AutumnLeaves
7691
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AutumnLeaves 06/09/11 - 03:36 pm
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Chaos and destruction,

Chaos and destruction, natural or man-made, have more to do with the fallen angel that I will not name here, than God. It is not God that tests good people and the rest; it is the fallen angel. If the evil one would test Jesus himself, why would he not test the rest of the mankind? God is our Savior, not our destruction. God promised never to destroy men again as he had in the Old Testament. No, if there is a force in this it is the evil one testing us.

scoopdedoop64
2366
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scoopdedoop64 06/09/11 - 03:41 pm
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Wow, leave for a few hours

Wow, leave for a few hours and citibank starts slinging enough mud hoping something will stick. We have got way off the point of the Rev. Fellows letter. The Bible makes it clear that any nation that does not honor God will suffer for doing so. Regardless of the debate of our founding fathers religious beliefs this nation was a very strong Christian nation at one time. With that came wonderful blessings from God. Now we throw God out of the classroom and courtroom and wonder why we have problems. Our God loves us and wants to bless us but He will not tolerate rebellion. The predominance of sins such as abortion (baby killing), homosexuality (exchanging the natural for the unnatural), other immoral sexual sins (pornography, abuse of children, adultery) killings and murders and drug abuse and alcoholism and the list goes ....the predominance of these sins requires that God not only withdraws his protection and blessings but sends for judgement. Either God does this or He would be forced to Sodom and Gomorrah a special apology for destroying those cities who were engaged in such sins. All we are saying is that we as a nation must turn back to the God who loves us or accept the consequences of our actions.

follower
59
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follower 06/09/11 - 03:55 pm
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Where did sin begin? With the

Where did sin begin? With the devil. It's in the Bible, I John 3:8, "He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work."

How long has the devil been a murderer and a liar? It's in the Bible, John 8:44, "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Where did Satan come from? Heaven. It's in the Bible, Revelation 12:7-9, "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Was Satan created sinful? No, he was created perfect, with freedom to choose. It's in the Bible, Ezekiel 28:15, "You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you."

What led to Satan's downfall? It's in the Bible, Ezekiel 28:17, TLB. "Your heart was filled with pride because of all your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor."

Satan, known as Lucifer before he sinned, wanted to be equal with God. It's in the Bible, Isaiah 14:12-14, "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! …For you said to yourself, 'I will ascend to heaven and rule the angels. I will take the highest throne… I will climb to the highest heavens and be like the Most High."

What does Satan want? Worship. It's in the Bible, Matthew 4:8-9, "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

Sorry for the long post, but heresy must be answered.

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 04:05 pm
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freeuniversalist, your

freeuniversalist, your explanation of aion of the aions or eons of eons may be correct but the words forever and ever in this reference (Rev.) is to the torment the unsaved will endure, not the reign of Christ. I disagree with your opinion that God designed the human race to fail. God made man in His own image and called it good, and the reason the Son of God was revealed was because man choose to disobey and sin, allowed sin to enter the world and instead of destroying Satan and man whom he loved, he sent Christ the Redeemer as a way of redemption, so He could still have a relationship with man even though we are all born sinners.

It's easy to take 1 John 3:8 out of context and only use a few verse to make your point, but reading the whole book of 1 John explans so much more. "because the devil has been sinning from the beginning". Was John referring to the beginning of Lucifer's existance (and yes he was a fallen angel) Read Ezekiel 28, or the beginning of the fall of man?

InChristLove
22473
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InChristLove 06/09/11 - 04:10 pm
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Thank you follwer on you

Thank you follwer on you informative post. Too many interruptions and did not want to post something that was inaccurate. I believe you stated it wonderfully. Scoop, yes it appears we have chased a few rabbits on here and need to get back to the topic of the letter.

freeuniversalist
0
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freeuniversalist 06/09/11 - 04:11 pm
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I will answer that with a

I will answer that with a passage from the Adam Clark Bible commentary :

O Lucifer, son of the morning - The Versions in general agree in this translation, and render heilel as signifying Lucifer, the morning star, whether Jupiter or Venus; as these are both bringers of the morning light, or morning stars, annually in their turn. And although the context speaks explicitly concerning Nebuchadnezzar, yet this has been, I know not why, applied to the chief of the fallen angels, who is most incongruously denominated Lucifer, (the bringer of light!) an epithet as common to him as those of Satan and Devil. That the Holy Spirit by his prophets should call this arch-enemy of God and man the light-bringer, would be strange indeed. But the truth is, the text speaks nothing at all concerning Satan nor his fall, nor the occasion of that fall, which many divines have with great confidence deduced from this text. O how necessary it is to understand the literal meaning of Scripture, that preposterous comments may be prevented! Besides, I doubt much whether our translation be correct. heilel, which we translate Lucifer, comes from yalal, yell, howl, or shriek, and should be translated, "Howl, son of the morning;"

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