Birthers' argument actually has weight

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Although I have been somewhat hands-off about the "birthers'" argument concerning President Obama and the questions surrounding his birth -- primarily because I believe the American population deserves whomever they elect to the office of president -- I want to pipe in on the negative public-relations campaign certainly orchestrated by the Democrats and their allies in media to discredit the birthers without discrediting the argument.

Whenever I go into an argument, I bring facts. Facts are the best basis to win an argument and make others look ignorant. Unfortunately, it would seem the media and political discourse just want to throw around the label "ignorant" against those who support the birther argument without really dealing with the facts. It is sad when reason is being beat up by public-relations ploys.

First, a birth certificate is a public -- not private -- document that banks, employers, schools and just about any private citizen can request -- either voluntarily or by fee with vital records of any county. That this document cannot be provided by the president or a litany of other sources in meeting constitutional requirements is absolutely unbelievable.

Second, when Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie decided to put the whole controversy to rest by providing the birth certificate, he could not find it, while assuring everybody that it was in the archives -- then was told not to further pursue the matter by the White House administration. Why would the White House pressure the governor not to provide a public document?

Third, a "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are not the same. It is said that a "certificate of live birth" is on display on the Internet concerning Obama. Although a number of folks question its authenticity, overall, accept it as authentic because a certificate of live birth is written up for infants and sometimes young children when they are presented to a hospital and have no record of a birth certificate. This is so a Social Security number can be provided.

Fourth, why was there actually a senatorial hearing (with then-Sen. Obama) concerning this matter if all the necessary documentation was legitimate and without questions?

Lastly, and more subjectively, the decisions this president has made since taking office all are inherently un-American policy approaches. This includes the "Great American Apology Tour," as named by pundits because President Obama goes on all foreign soils to apologize for America being America; the overt application of socialism; and wealth redistribution plans for specific, targeted groups within the population.

That is really strong evidence that Obama was not born in the United States and therefore does not meet the constitutional prerequisites to be president. Thirty-two percent of Republicans, 26 percent of independents and 11 percent of Democrats feel the birthers' argument is legitimate. You'd be crazy to think all of those individuals were "ignorant."

Will Tinney

Aiken, S.C.

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carcraft
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carcraft 04/23/11 - 10:27 pm
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myfather-perhaps enough

myfather-perhaps enough people will wake up to the fact that Obama may not be qualified to be in office and not vote for him unless Obama is forth coming with his true history and opens his records. The smoke screen the press wants to erect isn't quit working like it did in the last election. Obama, now, does have an official record-a record of arrogant incompetence. Failed to close Gitmo, failed to post bills, ran up the largest deficit in American history, reduced America's bond rating, started a war in Lybia that probably won't be ended until boots are on ground, unemployment has droped about a 1/2% after spending $800 billion dollars, and gas is supposed to go up to $5 per gallon. The press is hoping to paint those that question or are skeptical of Obama's back ground as nut cases and it isn't working!

Haki
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Haki 04/23/11 - 11:28 pm
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Will, I recently read a

Will, I recently read a interesting opinion piece from a publication you may enjoy.

http://m.chronicle.augusta.com/opinion/editorials/2011-04-22/keeping-bir...

Enjoy!

Haki
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Haki 04/23/11 - 11:56 pm
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On Friday, April 22nd 2011,

On Friday, April 22nd 2011, the Augusta Chronicle Editorial Staff wrote an opinion piece titled, "Keeping the 'Birthers' Alive."

:-)

tbmuch
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tbmuch 04/24/11 - 02:55 am
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@carcraft and others that

@carcraft and others that continue to beat what is evidently a 'dead horse,' myfather15 presented a most persuasive thread why those that keep this birther issue going should abandon it. There are some genuine at hand issues that the people of this country must come to an agreement on. to raise the debt ceiling, immigration, border security, unemployment and so on, let's pose these issues that are more relevant than the issue that is going no where. No one in congress is about to put forth any kind of proposed legislation to throw the President out because of where he was or not born.

Asitisinaug
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Asitisinaug 04/24/11 - 03:08 am
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Hawaii has certifed his

Hawaii has certifed his certificate, his birth was listed in 2 Hawaii papers, he has presented the certificate of live birth, etc...If those running against him though he didn't meet the requirements, you can rest assured they would have come up with the necessary proof.

Frankly, I belive the President is happy to have idiots our here discussing this argument because it takes away from what a disasterous policiy maker and President he has been.

He is our President and this "birther" crap isn't going to change anything so lets move on to the real issues and work to remove him from office based on his failed policies.

copperhead
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copperhead 04/24/11 - 03:12 am
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Folks ask why continue to

Folks ask why continue to beat this dead horse concerning the birth certificate of the most powerful person on planet earth. Here is a NOVEL idea- IT IS THE LAW! If we are not going to enforce ALL laws,why enforce ANY law?

carcraft
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carcraft 04/24/11 - 04:38 am
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As I have repeatly said, it

As I have repeatly said, it just isn't the birth certificate-IT IS ALL OF OBAMA'S RECORDS THAT ARE SEALED-completely unprecedented in American politics! Reporters attack or hurunge those that ask about Obama's past with out ever asking about the inconsistancies in Obama's book, Rezzko,Blago Obama's grade point average etc. According to the standards of the State Department the COLB on the internet couldn't get Obama a pass port, it isn't signed by the registrar of births. So we give Obama a pass on a constitutional requirement? McCain had to get a congressional resolution because he was born in Panama and Goldwater was challanged because he was born in Arizona when it was a terrritory!

copperhead
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copperhead 04/24/11 - 04:59 am
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Would the folks that don't

Would the folks that don't want THIS law enfoced,please list the laws that you DO want enforced. Please also list a few OTHER laws that you DON'T want enforced.

copperhead
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copperhead 04/24/11 - 05:50 am
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So, THIS is the ONLY LAW that

So, THIS is the ONLY LAW that should not be enforced? Strange!

Loren
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Loren 04/24/11 - 07:04 am
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"First, a birth certificate

"First, a birth certificate is a public -- not private -- document that banks, employers, schools and just about any private citizen can request"

Untrue. Hawaii puts very tight limits on its vital records. They are most definitely NOT public documents.

"Second, when Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie...then was told not to further pursue the matter by the White House administration."

Also untrue. Abercrombie has never said any such thing. Perhaps you may be thinking of what Mike Evans *claimed* Abercrombie told him in a phone call, despite the fact that Evans admitted a few days later that he hadn't even spoken to Abercrombie in months.

"Fourth, why was there actually a senatorial hearing (with then-Sen. Obama) concerning this matter"

Because there WASN'T any such Senate hearing. Never happened. All that ever happened was that the sponsor of the resolution declaring McCain to be eligible asked a single off-topic question during a Homeland Security hearing.

"That is really strong evidence that Obama was not born in the United States and therefore does not meet the constitutional prerequisites to be president."

What is strong evidence? Most of the claims made above are flat-out false.

"You'd be crazy to think all of those individuals were "ignorant.""

Hardly. Comparable percentages of Americans have believed that 9/11 was an inside job, or that homeopathy is real medicine, or that the earth is 6000 years old. Just because a wrong belief is mildly popular doesn't make it less wrong.

Alex Delarge
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Alex Delarge 04/24/11 - 07:12 am
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Loren....you claim there is

Loren....you claim there is no evidence, yet you cite none to back up your claim.

Rhetor
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Rhetor 04/24/11 - 07:42 am
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The ACES and Karl Rove have

The ACES and Karl Rove have both contended that birtherism remains alive b/c the liberal media wants to make conservatives look stupid and ignorant. Does that explain the ACES' dabbling in birtherism a few months ago??? Are Rush Limbaugh and Jerome Corsi dupes of the liberals? Sorry, guys, conservatives are making themselves look ignorant all by themselves. A certificate of live birth issued by the health department most certainly is a valid birth certificate. Birth certificates are tightly controlled because otherwise they are used by identity thieves. They are not public record. Even grade-school dropout southern conservatives should know that. Several states don't issue so-called long form birth certificates at all! That includes a number of the states that proposed birther bills! Florida doesn't even create paper birth records. Everything is on the computer. Every state has a different procedure and set of forms; Obama's is a valid and thoroughly attested Hawaii form. It's the only kind of birth certificate that Hawaii has issued for many years, and it will get you a passport, driver's license, etc. with no problem. Also, everybody's school records are sealed. That includes the writer of this LTE. If in fact Will went to school, his records are sealed. This is due to a federal law called the Family Rights and Eductional Privacy Act of 1974. Look it up. Finally, how can you expect America to trust conservatives with important decisions when the persistence of this issue and the related bizarre conspiracy theories prove quite beyond refutation that so many of them are befuddled, confused, arrogant, and totally witless? Smell the coffee, guys! The real world awaits! Planet earth calling! BTW, a joyous Easter to you all.

Riverman1
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Riverman1 04/24/11 - 07:50 am
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Yeah, well, I'll be the

Yeah, well, I'll be the honest one here. I don't want the law enforced because it is outdated. It would cause too much trouble to remove him from office. McCain wasn't "legal" either. We can beat Obama at the polls.

But I have no doubt there is something to the Birthers' claims. The strategy of the administration is not to get into a debate of facts and proof, but to belittle anyone who brings up the matter as being extreme. Liberals who try to support the stance here with facts are making a big mistake because the Birthers are the only ones with pertinent facts. The liberals here need to just be quiet on the facts and keep up the namecalling like their national cousins.

madgerman
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madgerman 04/24/11 - 07:59 am
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I am just curious. Are all
Unpublished

I am just curious. Are all reports of "live birth" issued in Hawaii illegal? What is the difference between a "certificate "of live birth and a birth "certificate? Does this mean everyone who was born at home as opposed to in a hospital, is an illegal?

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 04/24/11 - 08:41 am
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Why doesn't he just show his

Why doesn't he just show his birth cert and end this? I just am not sure why this is so hard.

I have one from where I was born in St Joseph Hospital, with a nice gold seal and raised stamp from the hospital. I also had to get an ORIGINAL copy from Richmond County Health Dept when I wanted to join the Army. A copy of an original was not enough, it had to either be THE original I had or I had to get an ORIGINAL copy with a RAISED seal on it from the Health Dept.

I think it was $15 for it. All I had to do was go down, produce a legal govt issued ID proving who I was, pay my money, and BOOM! I had an original BC with a raised seal so I could meet the requirments under the enlistment laws.

If I had to do it to be the lowest rank in the military, then why not the Commander in Chief?

Show it to stow it,

Brad

afadel
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afadel 04/24/11 - 08:41 am
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wealth redistribution plans

wealth redistribution plans for specific, targeted groups within the population

Yes, President Obama and Congress have been busy continuing the redistribution of the country's wealth from the poor to the rich, which has been going on since President Reagan, including President Clinton. Assuming that the Democratic Party won't nominate Kucinich for president, we'll have to elect President Obama in 2012 as the less destructive candidate than the one the Republican Party will nominate.

Riverman1
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Riverman1 04/24/11 - 08:43 am
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Madgerman, a serious question

Madgerman, a serious question and I'll attempt a serious answer if I have it in me. The hospital issues a "birth certificate" as a doctor can also give a written "birth certificate" for those born at home.

Now to your point, you could also say a child was born at home and request a "Report of Live Birth." One of my sons was actually born when I was abroad in the Army in a civilian hospital. I took a note from the foreign doctor to the American Embassy and was given a "Report of Live Birth of an American Citizen Abroad."

What's curious about Obama is that no doctor or hospital staff has come forward saying they remember his birth. But I believe many of us think the law is archaic in this jetage with people moving from country to country easily. He is President and we all just have to deal with it.

freeradical
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freeradical 04/24/11 - 08:53 am
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Obama would love to show his

Obama would love to show his "long form birth certificate" which is in

a super-secret fortified location somewhere in Honolulu.

However:

"Those documents are state government property that can't
be released to anyone, even Obama."
( Joshua Wisch , Special Assistant , State Attorney General )

Geez, how stupid can these birthers be.

Adder
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Adder 04/24/11 - 09:25 am
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Here is the TRUTH. We are
Unpublished

Here is the TRUTH. We are already at WAR... YOUR only choice now is how you prefer to DIE. On your knees,whimpering,helpless bound and gagged at the rim of a lime-filled pit you were forced to dig while being slapped, kicked and urinated upon {preferred by most progressive,liberal,leftist,freedom-hating,God-denying,collectivists} OR on your feet skewering them with the bayonette on your shot-empty still-smoking evil-black machinegun-looking scary-rifle on a pile of brass on a mound of freshly perforated commie corpses.{preferred by most conservative,right-wing,freedom-loving,God-fearing,individualists} Just saying. Time to get real.

JesusSavesAtCitiBank
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JesusSavesAtCitiBank 04/24/11 - 10:14 am
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If Obama was, indeed, a

If Obama was, indeed, a Muslim born in Kenya, it means that his parents foresaw that he would one day run for President of the United States. This prescient knowledge required that they then set a complex conspiracy in motion a half century ago involving hundreds of people in order to fool the American electorate.

In order to be an American citizen, Obama did NOT have to be born on American soil. All that was required was that his mother be an American citizen. If you're an American in the service and you have a child in a German hospital, you are automatically an American citizen.

43 white presidents before Obama and we never had any issues with their birth certificates. It is no coincidence that this so-called "Birther" movement is occurring right when we have our first African-American president. There is no doubt in my mind that Obama's place of birth wouldn't be an issue if he was white. Birthers are in abject denial of the facts, which makes they appear quite irrational on the subject. That's what makes them racists. If any of them had even a shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere but Honolulu they wouldn't be accused of harboring racist attitudes. But, the fact is, they don't. By the way, it is completely possible to have racist attitudes without necessarily being a racist or white supremacist. It's rare, but it's possible.

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 04/24/11 - 10:20 am
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Adder, So you think armed

Adder,

So you think armed revolution against the US Government is the path forward? HAve you ever been in a combat area, seen a city or country that has been fought in?

No one would want that for us in America, I wish you all would grow up and just run better candidates on your "conservative,right-wing,freedom-loving,God-fearing,individualists" side.

The fact is, an American civil war would destroy the country and given the stats my fine "conservative,right-wing,freedom-loving,God-fearing,individualists" freind, you would lose that fight in most areas except the Pacific Northwest.

So why don't you just forget all the Rambo dreams of an armed revolution restoring America's "conservative,right-wing,freedom-loving,God-fearing,individualists" roots and just work hard to help your side win at the ballot box.

Never turn to the cartridge box unless we have no access to the ballot box.

By the way, your rhetoric makes your side look even more loony that the media does when they report this stuff you all say.

Brad

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 04/24/11 - 10:23 am
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Citibank, There would be no

Citibank,

There would be no issue if Obama would just show his BC. Period. End of argument.

And for the record, I support getting rid of the "Native Born" section of the USC.

Brad

carcraft
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carcraft 04/24/11 - 10:36 am
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carcraftSaturday, Apr. 23

carcraftSaturday, Apr. 23 1:51 Here is why I am skeptical about President Obama's "nativity ":
1) Obama's grandmother from Kenya says she was present when Obama was born.
2)The Obama's have stated Obama was born at differant hospitals during differant interviews.
3) The Governor of Hawaii said he was going to produce Obama's birth certificate then gave a very convoluted answer and said it was "written down somewhere", and hasn't certified the one on the internet etc is an accurate facsimile after stating he would end the "birther nonsense".
4) The Hawaiian government has lied or it has been reported they lied. CNN stated all the old Hawwaiian documents had been destroyed, that Hawaii no longer issues long form birth certificates, etc
5)Which brings us to the Nordyke twins. The Nordyke twins were born a day or so after Obama. The Nordyke twins have recieved long form birth certificates from the state of Hawaii long after it was reported Hawaii no longer issued long form birth certificates.
6) President Obama has a registry number higher than the Nordyke twins number yet was supposedly born before them.
7) Hawaii issued COLB to people not born in Hawaii, or it was easy to get one the parents just had to appear at a hearing and claim the child was born in Hawaii.
8) There are lists of problems with Obama's COLB seen on the internet.
9) A reporter who is a friend of Abercrombie in several differant interviews said Abercrombie could not find any records of Obama's birth in Hawaii. After giving this statement in several interviews he then changed his story.
10) The Obama's never lived at the adress listed in the birth announcement in the paper.
11) President Obama has refused to release almost all his records, so he is fostering this problem.
Now are the above facts any reason to have skepticism?

jrbfromga
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jrbfromga 04/24/11 - 10:41 am
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To those who ask why it
Unpublished

To those who ask why it matters...if proof of U.S. birth cannot be provided, then we have an illegal president who must resign immediately or face impeachment. The popular vote of 2008 is irrelevant if Obama was an illegal, sham candidate. If proof can be provided, then he should do so to quiet the issue. Also, EVERY STATE should enact a requirement that any candidate for public office must provide proof that they meet the requirements for that office before their candidacy is allowed. As for those who claim racism, there was never any question about candidates...until now.

WW1949
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WW1949 04/24/11 - 10:45 am
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Herman Cain would be better

Herman Cain would be better than Obama. JS is that racist. At least Mr. Cain has run a business, met a payroll and know the difference between spending what you have and what you do not have. It is past time for all of the government offices to reel in their spending on every program. Sure some of the entitlement crowd is going to get mad and say "what about me, what about what I want" . Well I say so what about what you want. Go earn it and do not take it from me. So that I do no sound so cruel I have no problem with old people or the very sick receiving help. I just hate those that can work and do not. Just last week a long time employee of mine quit because I got onto him about some of his installations. He quit and said he is going on disability because of ankle problems. His wife is already receiving a SSI check because one of her eyes goes to the far right. She can work but is just too lazy as is the rest of her entire family. They all receive some kind of check after they go tothe hospital in Thomson GA and get a doctors opinion about their condition. Their only condition is the disease called "LAZY".

carcraft
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carcraft 04/24/11 - 10:51 am
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Dear JSCT-Goldwater was

Dear JSCT-Goldwater was questioned about his elgiblity because he was born in Arizona when it was a territory. John McCain was questioned about it because he was born in Panama and a Senate resolution was passed affirming that he was a natural born citizen. Yes this has been an issue for other canidates for president-Now why doesn't the press ask Obama why his records are sealed with the same intensity they go after birthers?

Riverman1
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Riverman1 04/24/11 - 11:41 am
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Carcraft, I'm with you on

Carcraft, I'm with you on most of this, but the McCain question is still open to debate. Just because Congress passed a law making him "a natural born" citizen, it doesn't change the Constitution. It was not a constitutional amendment. But the bigger question is what exactly is "a natural born" citizen?

Jon Lester
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Jon Lester 04/24/11 - 11:43 am
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Now just how much do you
Unpublished

Now just how much do you think a teenager and a Third World exchange student could realistically pull off in the world of 1961? Seriously.

RunningMan
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RunningMan 04/24/11 - 11:47 am
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The birthers simply has

The birthers simply has nothing else better to do than continue this nonsense. The Augusta Chronicle is no better. They are simply showing their true colors and fueling a debate that they will never win. The so call conspiracy regarding our Commander-and-Chief's birth certificate sounds so ridiculous, not just to Americans, but also to the rest of the world. It is also very disrespectful, and a little late. The last time I checked, he has been in office now for almost 2 1/2 years. If you had an issue with his birth place, it should have been debated long before now. Give it a rest, and lets focus on something that really matters.

carcraft
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carcraft 04/24/11 - 12:23 pm
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Jon Lester-Obama's grand

Jon Lester-Obama's grand mother (you know the average white women that raised him while his mommie was in Indonesia, and helped send him to one of the most expensive boarding schools in the country) was a bank official and Obama's Grand Father (the one the poem POP'S is not about) was very politically connected. How much could two people like that pull off?

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