Class warfare wrongheaded, destructive

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Jay Collett's letter regarding who pays taxes in America (Dec 8, "Don't we care about the less fortunate?") is documented proof that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Mr Collett states that the "rich," although he fails to define that term, pay 39 percent of the taxes and that the poor and middle class pay the other 61 percent. He could not be more wrong.

According to the National Taxpayers Union website, in 2008 the top 10 percent of earners in America, those making more than approximately $113,000 per year, paid roughly 70 percent of all income taxes -- 69.7 per cent to be exact -- while the bottom 50 percent, those making less than $33,000 per year, paid about 3 percent. Many of those, in fact, paid nothing and still received refunds thanks to a government welfare program known as the earned income tax credit.

Mr Collett also stated that because the "rich" grew in numbers from 1980 to 2006, naturally they paid a larger percentage of the tax. Growth in the number of so called "rich" people does not affect how much of the total taxes they paid, since what is being measured is not how many individuals are "rich" but rather how much of the total taxes were paid by individuals in a specific income bracket.

The rest of his letter goes on to deal with illegals and their desire to come to America, the "greatest country on Earth," and how we should not turn them away but allow all who wish to come to do so without restriction. He claims that this is the only humane thing to do.

While he is correct that we are truly blessed to live in this wonderful nation, coming here is not a right; it is a privilege that can be earned, but nowadays is being hijacked by individuals who disregard our laws and customs.

Compassion for these unfortunates is not a good enough reason to condone anarchy.

Democrats and President Obama have spent the last three years or more stoking the fires of class warfare. To his obvious chagrin, Obama has been hoisted on his own petard as the fringe left he radicalized with his rhetoric has now turned on him.

These are troubled economic times, and I suspect things will get worse before they get better. Let's set aside all the class warfare banter and work together to solve our financial woes. Working together is our only hope. As Ben Franklin once said, " If we do not hang together, we will most assuredly hang separately."

Louis M. Pedraza

Martinez

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onlysane1left
222
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onlysane1left 12/27/10 - 07:23 am
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I most certainly agree with

I most certainly agree with the last paragraph of this letter. What I am trying to understand is what is the point of making a distinction of who pays what taxes. Unless, the IRS tax code is changed, people will manuver to get their taxes to favor themselves, whither they make $20,000, $250,000 or $2,000,000. I really don't see why people have to point out who pays what taxes, unless they are trying to solve the root of the problem which is with the IRS.

Rhetor
1042
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Rhetor 12/27/10 - 07:43 am
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Poor people pay less in taxes

Poor people pay less in taxes because they make less. One person with $1,000,000 in income might pay (depending on deductions, etc.) a couple hundred thousand in taxes. Even if they paid at the same tax rate, you'd need to pile up an awfully large number of low-income people to pay that much. Thus, this letter basically plays math games.

I C U 2
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I C U 2 12/27/10 - 08:26 am
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Your right Rhetor. My

Your right Rhetor. My businesses have been making too much money ! I am so ashamed. I will immediately close them down and lay off my employee's and apply for some government assistance.

Carleton Duvall
6305
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Carleton Duvall 12/27/10 - 08:26 am
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Here is another statistic

Here is another statistic that I just read. 50% of tax filers pay 97% of the federal income taxes. If this is true 50% of the tax filers are getting a free ride. Maybe this is the way it should be. Maybe those that get an education, work hard and make a lot of money should support the rest of us. If this works, fine, but what happens when the 50% that pay most of the tax burden becomes 40% then 30%. As many European countries have found out, Socialism works fine until the money runs out.

seenitB4
93940
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seenitB4 12/27/10 - 08:28 am
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Oh pleeeze....look at Europe

Oh pleeeze....look at Europe & see what they are having to do.....CUT TO THE BONE....we will too before it's over...& then you will have the same ones on here crying about hurting the poor.....give me a break....I have had tough times in the past & not once did the Gov. pay my bills. Get off your behinds ...find some kind of a job....pay your own way.

bettyboop
7
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bettyboop 12/27/10 - 08:48 am
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Well said seenit !!!!! And a

Well said seenit !!!!! And a frosty frigid morning to ye!

dani
12
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dani 12/27/10 - 08:50 am
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It is hard for a successful

It is hard for a successful person with drive and ambition to see those who have none complain that they have less...or something like that.

It takes a LOT of hard work to get off the ground. Nobody gives you success, a person has to earn it.

seenitB4
93940
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seenitB4 12/27/10 - 08:59 am
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A big good morning to

A big good morning to yee...betty & dani......it is cold----snow is still on the ground.....have to push the doggie out in the morning for bathroom break. lol

Carleton Duvall
6305
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Carleton Duvall 12/27/10 - 09:21 am
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For once, it seems all of the

For once, it seems all of the posters are all on the same page this morning

justus4
111
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justus4 12/27/10 - 09:22 am
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The article comes right out
Unpublished

The article comes right out of the right-wing play book and offers not a single original thought. It's all been said day & night on the radio and the F-word cable channel, but here's what important: There will always be more poor people than rich people. With that fact in mind, defenders of the filthy rich will find it increasingly difficult to defend the fat cats. In fact, it's gonna be a hoot to see how they explain to the middle class, whose wages have decreased over the last decade, while the top 2% have increased their wealth X3 times. A brilliant move by this president to only extend the tax give-aways for 24 mos. The article writer, along with fellow (r)s in 2012 will be given the opportunity to explain themselves - and those numbers quoted from this article will be exposed, along the class warfare myth. This one will be easy.

rmwhitley
5547
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rmwhitley 12/27/10 - 09:47 am
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Facts are a dastardly
Unpublished

Facts are a dastardly inconvenience for most liberals. I have breakfast with an 80 year old gentleman, having served in Korea, that was raised as a democrat. He fervently believes whatever party-line is offered to be sent down from God. If facts get in the way, he throws a 2 year old's temper tantrum. His brother, my brother-in-law, is a war veteran, a distinguished superior court jurist and staunch Democrat with one distinction; he recognizes facts. Please do some research before going off half-cocked on any platform. There are many sources and ways to crosscheck and cross-reference your stance on any issue. Just because someone says it's so, doesn't make it so. Amen and pass the offering plate.

Carleton Duvall
6305
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Carleton Duvall 12/27/10 - 09:51 am
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Maybe I should revise my last

Maybe I should revise my last statement. I read the first two posters comments again and I am not sure where they stand

southernguy08
532
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southernguy08 12/27/10 - 10:02 am
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The "redistribution of
Unpublished

The "redistribution of wealth" crowd can never show poor people who own businesses and industries and provide jobs that make an economy. Go figure. Good letter Mr. Pedraza. Does anyone notice that this man's name is hispanic? This should provide some evidence that not all hispanics support open borders and illegal immigration.

onlysane1left
222
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onlysane1left 12/27/10 - 11:16 am
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To me, it looks like everyone

To me, it looks like everyone is with Obama in the class warfare instead of getting America going in the right direction. I stand on what the writer says in the last paragraph, we'll never getting going forward if we are all too busy arguing with each other about the past.....

onlysane1left
222
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onlysane1left 12/27/10 - 11:39 am
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Some puzzling questions for

Some puzzling questions for southernguy08: How does just ownership of a business, low income or otherwise make up an economy? That is like saying only trees makeup an ecosystem. Business ownership is a part of an economy, you have to have consumers as well as workers. A poor business owner would do horribly if he/she had no one to sell to. I believe there are several business owners, who are not making millions, yet running moderately sucessful businesses with employees, that are helping the economy. If that statement is a ploy to say why poor people don't own anything, you may as well ask what color is the little red schoolhouse, because the answer is in the statement. (No real proof needed).
One more thing: why does Mr. Pedraza's statement and possible ethincity have to prove that all hispanics are for open borders? Not all hispanics came from another country. Most were here when the lands were settled and through the acquisition of other areas from other countries. It is too hard to believe that they believe in the same ideas that you do, as well as the fact, that most of them were Americans before your relatives were......

Rather
56
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Rather 12/27/10 - 01:16 pm
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I have tried job hunting from

I have tried job hunting from the companies that live under the 13th street bridge and I get so mad when they laugh at me. Why won't they offer me a job? I would go to the "well-to-do" to apply but according to most of you, they are evil. What should I do? Oh! I forgot 99 weeks of unemployment benefits (plus, now, 13 months more) is the obvious answer. Don't forget, 1 in 7 are on food stamps, and free government housing also helps. Jobs? Who needs one?

Rhetor
1042
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Rhetor 12/27/10 - 02:48 pm
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Where does all of this come

Where does all of this come from? The letter's point is based on a math error. In fact, the majority of tax money comes from the rich because they have more money to tax. One Wall Street guy (or one NBA player) files a $50 mil. tax return. If he pays 20% (after his deductions and tax breaks), that amounts to $10 mil. in taxes. If 100 ordinary guys file $50,000 tax returns at 20%, each paying $10,000 in taxes, their total taxation is $100,000. Thus, the rich pay most of the taxes. That in and of itself isn't unfair at all. That's not to say that our tax code is fair (the rich and poor guys might in real life pay much more or much less than 20%, for example), but the commonly stated argument in this LTE proves absolutely nothing except that Americans are math-impaired. Sorry, folks.

Carleton Duvall
6305
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Carleton Duvall 12/27/10 - 03:57 pm
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Rhetor, I don't know where

Rhetor, I don't know where you get your math from but it is wrong, wrong, wrong. No person making 50 grand is going to have a 10 grand tax bill. Run your numbers thru TuroTax or some other tax software and you will see what I mean.

ozarkalien
0
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ozarkalien 12/27/10 - 04:14 pm
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Some of you want to blame the

Some of you want to blame the unemployed and the poor for the country's ills but what about the terrible trade agreements moving all the jobs overseas in the name of greed. What about wal-street? These companies are putting the country second and profits first. I wish we could come together and fight for keeping our jobs here, ending the tax breaks for shipping jobs over seas, stop subsidizing Wal-mart and other companies because of the low wages they pay. Why is it a company that is richer then most counties can't seem to pay a living wage and in turn our tax dollars has to go to those employees for health care and other things. Redistributing wealth is just a stupid talking point that is believed by the gullible. Hard working people deserve a living wage. The wages for middle class has fallen for years. I want these companies to be successful and make billions but I also want people to earn a living wage this would help our economy greatly. The way it is going there won't be anyone who can afford to buy anything except what Communist China ships here. You can turn the amount of taxes on it's head with all the different ways to determine who pay's what. Instead of the top 10% try the top 3% or 1% or use the bottom 25% or bottom 62.75%.I do agree that if you don't pay in you don't get any money back! Close the borders send the illegals back all 30+ million, this will open up some jobs. Until construction comes back there are going to be a lot of people that can't find jobs and to say these are just lazy is stupid.

Scratch
147
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Scratch 12/27/10 - 04:25 pm
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Rhetor, I can usually

Rhetor, I can usually understand your posts whether or not I agree with them, but this time I think you missed the letter writer's point. He refutes the original writer's tenet that if the "rich" pay 39% of total tax revenue, then the middle class and poor must pay the remaining 61%. He says that is an erroneous assumption because the poor, i.e. those making somewhat less than $33K per year pay no income tax and in fact, thru the earned income credit, may even get money from the fed gov't. They pay zero taxes, nothing, nada. Where is his math error? The error appears to be yours, not in math, but in reading and understanding his statement. Or did I misunderstand your points?

southernguy08
532
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southernguy08 12/27/10 - 04:41 pm
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ONLYSANE, please, tell us
Unpublished

ONLYSANE, please, tell us all, how many POOR people do you know that own businesses, industries, and hire people? Economics 101: People who own businesses and industries, usually upper middle class or even, dare I say, wealthy, are more likely to hire others to work at those businesses and industries. This produces income for these workers, who in turn spend that income to the benefit of other businesses and industries that hire more workers. This also allows taxes to be levied and provides for "guvmint" services to be provided. Still with me? Good, then maybe you can explain this to the Obama Administration, who has seen fit to have only 7% of its cabinet to come from private industry. As for your accusation that my comment accused all hispanics of wanting open borders, please, read it again. I said it does NOT prove this. Funny how liberals twist anyting to meet their current thoughts. Yeah, I'm laughing.

Dixieman
16595
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Dixieman 12/27/10 - 07:40 pm
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The % figures on tax payments

The % figures on tax payments are absolutely right and there is no getting around them.
As soon as we get over 50% of the people paying no taxes (or receiving money from gov't) look out. They will then realize they can vote themselves unlimited payments from the pockets of the other 50%, and then our country and civilization will collapse.

peace4784
126
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peace4784 12/27/10 - 08:03 pm
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I see there is no original
Unpublished

I see there is no original thinking. People are brainwashed to the left or to the right. The crabs cooking in the pot are not paying attention to the person who is tuning up the heat. No wonder half the country is addicted to alcohol, cigarettes,obese, broke, and buried in debt.

painterdave
0
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painterdave 12/28/10 - 08:10 am
0
0
Simple!!!!!!! Stop hiring all

Simple!!!!!!! Stop hiring all the illegals who don't pay taxes,take away their welfare and healthcare. PROBLEM SOLVED!

Dan at The Scott Daily Post
0
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Dan at The Scott Daily Post 12/28/10 - 11:16 am
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As a fellow Hispanic I

As a fellow Hispanic I applaud Mr. Pedraza's stance. Opening the immigration gates won't solve anything unless your trying to buy votes. The "war" on our border is all about drug and human trafficking but this administration labeled Arizona's legislation as racially motivated; a flat out lie.

Lastly, class envy and class warfare has resulted in Tax Discrimination in this country. The founding fathers would be ashamed.

AutumnLeaves
9660
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AutumnLeaves 12/28/10 - 11:22 am
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Good letter. I might add if

Good letter. I might add if you keeping taking away from the rich to give to the poor, eventually, the rich are going to get fed up with it, they are going to lose their motivation to keep on producing products, services and therefore jobs, and leave for other countries, taking their businesses that provide jobs and discretionary income that would normally be spent in our country, with them. Oh wait, that has already been happening, in droves, that is why we are in the economic fix we are now.

GOSHEN77
0
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GOSHEN77 12/28/10 - 11:43 am
0
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Hey louis, my job got sent to

Hey louis, my job got sent to China. Now I can only work at Burger King. Thank you thank you merry much.

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